Career in Veterinary Medicine/Nursing

Xios · 29-07-2014 11:10am #1

Hey guys,

My girlfriend is planning on pursuing a career in the industry. She's currently working full-time and has applied for courses in Bray and Dun Laoghaire for Animal care. The main plan was to go to UCD, but there was a mix up on the CAO and that course is out.

Would anyone in the industry be able to tell me if there are other options outside of full-time formal education? Is there an accredited distance learning or part-time(evening) course she could attend in the Dublin area?

Can you pursue the career without the formal education? She wants to work with animals, and obviously make a living doing it, but until she does find a paying job she'll likely volunteer in animal care or help on farms for the time being.

Also, can any Vets on here give me a jobs profile, what your career has been like, what got you to where you are and do you still enjoy your field?

Edit; Also, if there are no part-time courses in Veterinary practice, would it be beneficial for her to do a medicine based course part-time, such as medication administration or nursing for the year, would the overlap in skills be useful?

Mods; Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

Magenta · 29-07-2014 12:07pm

Xios wrote: »

Hey guys,

My girlfriend is planning on pursuing a career in the industry. She's currently working full-time and has applied for courses in Bray and Dun Laoghaire for Animal care. The main plan was to go to UCD, but there was a mix up on the CAO and that course is out.

Would anyone in the industry be able to tell me if there are other options outside of full-time formal education? Is there an accredited distance learning or part-time(evening) course she could attend in the Dublin area?

Can you pursue the career without the formal education? She wants to work with animals, and obviously make a living doing it, but until she does find a paying job she'll likely volunteer in animal care or help on farms for the time being.

Also, can any Vets on here give me a jobs profile, what your career has been like, what got you to where you are and do you still enjoy your field?

Edit; Also, if there are no part-time courses in Veterinary practice, would it be beneficial for her to do a medicine based course part-time, such as medication administration or nursing for the year, would the overlap in skills be useful?

Mods; Sorry if this is the wrong forum.

A distance learning course in Vet medicine??? Or being a vet without formal education? Are you serious? It's a 5 year degree that for most people takes the guts of 590 LC points to get into. If she really wants to be a vet then surely she would know that UCD is the only university in the Republic that teaches it?
Being a vet isn't just "working with animals". It's a profession and takes a lot of hard graft and study to qualify in. I don't mean to sound harsh but it sounds like she isn't taking it remotely seriously if she didn't even fill out her CAO properly. Vet medicine isn't a career you just fall into. You're a practising medical professional responsible for animal's lives, you don't get into it by accident.

Xios · 29-07-2014 12:32pm

Magenta wrote: »

A distance learning course in Vet medicine??? Or being a vet without formal education? Are you serious? It's a 5 year degree that for most people takes the guts of 590 LC points to get into. If she really wants to be a vet then surely she would know that UCD is the only university in the Republic that teaches it?
Being a vet isn't just "working with animals". It's a profession and takes a lot of hard graft and study to qualify in. I don't mean to sound harsh but it sounds like she isn't taking it remotely seriously if she didn't even fill out her CAO properly. Vet medicine isn't a career you just fall into. You're a practising medical professional responsible for animal's lives, you don't get into it by accident.

Yeah, I should've been clearer but didn't want to write an Essay. She's in it for the long haul. The CAO is an awkward system to get around sometimes, and when she realised the mistake, the CAO office were of absolutely no help in solving the problem.

And I didn't mean to paint the career path in a pale light. But there are stepping stones into the career and I want to explore other avenues into. I'm certain that UCD isn't the be all and end all of Veterinary practice in Ireland. Athlone and Dundalk offer degrees in Vet nursing as well, she already has applied for the 1/2 year courses in Bray and Dun Laoghaire which are progression FETAC's to get into UCD and the institutes. But she might not be willing to quit her job to return to education, so I want to explore other options for her.

Being a vet isn't just "working with animals". It's a profession and takes a lot of hard graft and study to qualify in.

I'm also aware of this, but I figured I'd just cut the chase and go straight for the details.

Magenta · 29-07-2014 12:46pm

Xios wrote: »

Yeah, I should've been clearer but didn't want to write an Essay. She's in it for the long haul. The CAO is an awkward system to get around sometimes, and when she realised the mistake, the CAO office were of absolutely no help in solving the problem.

And I didn't mean to paint the career path in a pale light. But there are stepping stones into the career and I want to explore other avenues into. I'm certain that UCD isn't the be all and end all of Veterinary practice in Ireland. Athlone and Dundalk offer degrees in Vet nursing as well, she already has applied for the 1/2 year courses in Bray and Dun Laoghaire which are progression FETAC's to get into UCD and the institutes. But she might not be willing to quit her job to return to education, so I want to explore other options for her.

I'm also aware of this, but I figured I'd just cut the chase and go straight for the details.

Has she looked up any courses herself or are you doing it all for her? I mean if she's so committed to it surely she's looked into it herself.

andreac · 29-07-2014 12:49pm

UCD are the only college in Ireland where you can do Veterinary Medicine and afaik, there are only roughly 60 places on the course, so its very hard to get in to.

Be prepared though, if Vet nursing is what she wants to get in to, its very badly paid and you work very hard.

Xios · 29-07-2014 12:59pm

Magenta wrote: »

Has she looked up any courses herself or are you doing it all for her? I mean if she's so committed to it surely she's looked into it herself.

She is, but i've so much more free time and it's a much easier for me to navigate these systems as i've done it a bunch of times myself.

Xios · 29-07-2014 1:00pm

andreac wrote: »

UCD are the only college in Ireland where you can do Veterinary Medicine and afaik, there are only roughly 60 places on the course, so its very hard to get in to.

Be prepared though, if Vet nursing is what she wants to get in to, its very badly paid and you work very hard.

She's in the defence forces, I think she knows a thing or two about hard work for crap pay.

andreac · 29-07-2014 1:01pm

Well i was just informing you and letting you know the career it is, as not everybody does.

Xios · 29-07-2014 1:03pm

andreac wrote: »

Well i was just informing you and letting you know the career it is, as not everybody does.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I've dealth with Vets over the past few years and I appreciate that it can be a physically and emotionally demanding job.

andreac · 29-07-2014 1:10pm

Xios wrote: »

Thanks, I appreciate that. I've dealth with Vets over the past few years and I appreciate that it can be a physically and emotionally demanding job.

Yes, very. Depending if you go large or small animal. Large is a completely different job altogether and to be honest, no money would pay me to do that.

I work on a stud farm myself, in the office section now, but i studied Equine Studies at college for a few years. Im now working in one of the biggest studs in the country. But i see how hard our resident vet works. He could be on call during the night and still have to be in for daily rounds from 8am, its tough going.

Small animal is a lot easier and you have your set times of your practice and probably rotate on call duty so it would be a lot more flexible and normal working hours.

These are all the things to consider. If shes working in the defence forces, could she not get involved in the Army Equitation school or the Mounted Police if horses were something she was interested in?

Xios · 29-07-2014 1:18pm

andreac wrote: »

These are all the things to consider. If shes working in the defence forces, could she not get involved in the Army Equitation school or the Mounted Police if horses were something she was interested in?

Nah, I think the Equitation school hires in external vets and any Privates in the school are glorified sh*t shovelers (I'm open to correction, I don't really know)

But transfering within the defence forces is slow and I doubt they have much need for Veterinary Skills in the PDF, maybe in the Dog unit (if it still exists), but that's very small, specialised and very hard to get into.

Ideally she could keep her job while studying part-time, because the quality of life in the PDF is pretty good, outside the very dull run of the mill work that needs to be done.

There were opportunities to go do Medicine in Cork with the PDF, but that was a Medic's course.

andreac · 29-07-2014 1:20pm

I think the only course she can do part-time is vet nursing, Vet Medicine is a full time course and it think its 4 or 5 years. I would def think long and hard if thats the route she wants to go down because it will be a long time before shes earning again if she chooses to do vet nursing or vet medicine.

Zapperzy · 29-07-2014 1:53pm

I'm a vet nurse, I qualified last year. Feel free to pm me if she wants any info on the course, or if she wants to email me herself il do my best to answer any questions.

The country is currently over run with nurses, two new courses recently got accredited so the output of nurses has nearly doubled but the jobs situation hasn't improved. Keep an eye on the ivna website and the Irish veterinary journal website and that'l give you an idea of the job prospects, England is the place to be at the moment, I don't think the money's much better over there but your skills as a nurse are better appreciated and there seems to be loads of jobs both at the bottom and head nurse positions. I graduated a year ago and still no nursing job, a guy I went for an interview with said he was bowled over with the amount of applications he received after he advertised a job.

As mentioned already there's the pretty crappy pay. If your lucky you get into a nice practice where you can really stretch your wings as a nurse but some are mostly reception work which can be a little irritating after studying for 3/4 years to nurse.

The animal care courses are no more than a stepping stone to nursing. I don't know the ins and outs of the legality of it but you can't carry out nursing procedures or call yourself a nurse unless your a registered or student nurse. They can be used to work as a receptionist, kennel cleaner and groomer (no legal requirements to call yourself a groomer).

Don't get me wrong I love nursing, I worked my ass off in placements for 3 years doing crazy hours with no pay and still enjoyed it. It's a very satisfying job when you get to see the end product of your hard work, animal comes in on deaths door and being able to nurse it back to health is very rewarding. There's the flip side that a lot of people aren't able to handle and it's dealing with euthanasia and being able to step back from cases sometimes. For that reason it can be very up and down work. I remember our lecture telling us before that suicide ranked by profession veterinary professions (I think mostly vets) are number 2, farmers number 1.

I'm on the phone so not able to go into much detail but feel free to pm me any questions

Xios · 29-07-2014 2:22pm

Zapperzy wrote: »

I'm a vet nurse, I qualified last year. Feel free to pm me if she wants any info on the course, or if she wants to email me herself il do my best to answer any questions.

The country is currently over run with nurses, two new courses recently got accredited so the output of nurses has nearly doubled but the jobs situation hasn't improved. Keep an eye on the ivna website and the Irish veterinary journal website and that'l give you an idea of the job prospects, England is the place to be at the moment, I don't think the money's much better over there but your skills as a nurse are better appreciated and there seems to be loads of jobs both at the bottom and head nurse positions. I graduated a year ago and still no nursing job, a guy I went for an interview with said he was bowled over with the amount of applications he received after he advertised a job.

As mentioned already there's the pretty crappy pay. If your lucky you get into a nice practice where you can really stretch your wings as a nurse but some are mostly reception work which can be a little irritating after studying for 3/4 years to nurse.

The animal care courses are no more than a stepping stone to nursing. I don't know the ins and outs of the legality of it but you can't carry out nursing procedures or call yourself a nurse unless your a registered or student nurse. They can be used to work as a receptionist, kennel cleaner and groomer (no legal requirements to call yourself a groomer).

Don't get me wrong I love nursing, I worked my ass off in placements for 3 years doing crazy hours with no pay and still enjoyed it. It's a very satisfying job when you get to see the end product of your hard work, animal comes in on deaths door and being able to nurse it back to health is very rewarding. There's the flip side that a lot of people aren't able to handle and it's dealing with euthanasia and being able to step back from cases sometimes. For that reason it can be very up and down work. I remember our lecture telling us before that suicide ranked by profession veterinary professions (I think mostly vets) are number 2, farmers number 1.

I'm on the phone so not able to go into much detail but feel free to pm me any questions

Thanks for your response, she'll certainly appreciate this info. I'll let her know to PM you as soon as she gets to read this thread.

tk123 · 29-07-2014 2:22pm

OP I'm confused by your posts.. Has she got the points to get in to UCD or is she looking for a way around the points?!

Xios · 29-07-2014 2:24pm

tk123 wrote: »

OP I'm confused by your posts.. Has she got the points to get in to UCD or is she looking for a way around the points?!

She'll be going in as a mature student. This is the UCD criteria for anyone else interested.

assessment Procedure
Mature applicants will be assessed on the basis of their
relevant experience, previous qualifications, and Veterinary
Council of Ireland registration status.

Work Experience
Applicants will be required to have at least one year’s
relevant animal work experience, in either a voluntary
or professional capacity.

Letters of Reference
Please submit two letters of recommendation. If
possible this should include one from a veterinary
surgeon and one from a previous employer. Preference
is given to letters from employers who are veterinary
surgeons.

Personal Statement
Mature applicants to Veterinary Nursing must also
complete a Personal Statement (max. 500 words).
The personal statement must be completed and posted
to the CAO along with the information listed below:
• full resume/CV;
• all previous examination results;
• two relevant letters of reference.
N.B. Evidence of Work Experience, References, relevant
Transcripts and Personal Statement are compulsory
elements of your application. Where any of these are
not included the application cannot be considered.
Further information is available from:
MVB & Veterinary Nursing Programme Office
Veterinary Sciences Centre
UCD, Belfield
Dublin 4
Tel: + 353-1-716-6100
Email: vetprogrammes@ucd.ie
Website: www.ucd.ie/vetmed
Applicants for Veterinary Nursing may also be interested
in the FETAC entry pathway – please see Section 3 for

Magenta · 29-07-2014 2:30pm

Xios wrote: »

She'll be going in as a mature student.

UCD don't do mature student entry for Veterinary Medicine.... The text you have copied is for nursing.
She would need to either go in as an undergrad (with 580 points) or as a graduate if she already has a degree.

Xios · 29-07-2014 2:44pm

Magenta wrote: »

UCD don't do mature student entry for Veterinary Medicine.... The text you have copied is for nursing.
She would need to either go in as an undergrad (with 580 points) or as a graduate if she already has a degree.

She's interested in both, as per the title.

thegreatgonzo · 29-07-2014 3:21pm

I think she would benefit from taking a bit of time to decide if she wants to be a vet or a vet nurse. I know several people who started off nursing but then realized they'd rather be vets. It's very different and depending on her personality and the type of lifestyle she wants to have and a whole load of other considerations your girlfriend might be more suited to one or to the other. I know when I went back to college I spent a very long time considering why I was applying for nursing and I seemed to get to get endless questions from people about why I didn't want to be a vet. I made the right choice for myself but a good percentage of the girls that graduated with me have moved away from nursing.
You can't do vet nursing part time anymore btw, the diploma in UCD is gone and was replaced by the full time degree.

Xios · 29-07-2014 3:39pm

thegreatgonzo wrote: »

I think she would benefit from taking a bit of time to decide if she wants to be a vet or a vet nurse. I know several people who started off nursing but then realized they'd rather be vets. It's very different and depending on her personality and the type of lifestyle she wants to have and a whole load of other considerations your girlfriend might be more suited to one or to the other. I know when I went back to college I spent a very long time considering why I was applying for nursing and I seemed to get to get endless questions from people about why I didn't want to be a vet. I made the right choice for myself but a good percentage of the girls that graduated with me have moved away from nursing.
You can't do vet nursing part time anymore btw, the diploma in UCD is gone and was replaced by the full time degree.

Thanks for the advice. She wouldn't be starting until 2015 I'd say, unless she goes straight into the FETAC courses in september. But you're right, time to think it through would certainly be beneficial.

boomerang · 29-07-2014 5:44pm

Being a VN isn't far from being the glorified sh*t shoveller you mention - and I say that as a VN myself!

If you love animals it is an amazingly interesting thing to study and you'll love the work. But a lot of the job *is* menial - no getting around that - and the pay is really bad. Minimum wage, maybe going to €11 or €12 an hour if you stay with the same practice over several years, but there's no formal pay scale. That's why so many nurses leave the profession early.

Best thing I ever did, though.

muddypaws · 29-07-2014 5:59pm

boomerang wrote: »

Being a VN isn't far from being the glorified sh*t shoveller you mention - and I say that as a VN myself!

If you love animals it is an amazingly interesting thing to study and you'll love the work. But a lot of the job *is* menial - no getting around that - and the pay is really bad. Minimum wage, maybe going to €11 or €12 an hour if you stay with the same practice over several years, but there's no formal pay scale. That's why so many nurses leave the profession early.

Best thing I ever did, though.

Yeah, I know so many vet nurses that have left the profession and moved on to other things

FueledByAisling · 31-07-2014 10:07pm

Hi op, former VN Student here. UCD is the best college in the country to do the course as the facilities are excellent, you meet the future vets and it's the only level 7 in the country. All other VN courses are level 5/6, a lot of these students tend to go into grooming rather than the clinical end.

In RE: to Vmed, UCD is the only college within ROI & NI. Points are hitting 600's and there's still a lottery on it. There's no mature student application, just postgrad. In order to enter post grad you really need a equine studies, ag science animal science or VN degree behind you. On top of this you need other animal experience, sit a entry exam followed by an interview. If you are lucky to make the cut, it is then another hefty average of €20,000 per annum of instuition fees for the 5 years.

Having a love of animals is not sufficient enough for either of these degrees, you must have drive and an interest in science and anatomy. The VN degree is far too academic for the actual career you get put into, if you struggle with science (particularly chemistry) you will struggle with this. Only 1-3 positions are held in this course for those coming from plc versions ie the Dun Laoghire. Neither degrees are a walk in the park, they take up your life and you will continue to be examined until you finish practising.

boomerang · 31-07-2014 10:18pm

Bit biased towards UCD there, Aisling.

None of my classmates from St. John's are gone into grooming. They're RVNs working in practice here, in the UK, Canada and Australia. Bear in mind St. John's was the first course in the country to get accreditation from the Veterinary Council - before UCD, even. Bill Cashman who runs the Cork course is current President of VCI. He is so very pro-nursing so this is a great thing for VNs.

I already had a degree so UCD wasn't a viable option. The course in Cork was brilliant and as we spent a day a week in practice in first year and two consecutive days a week in practice in second year, we were straight out of the traps and ready for the workplace when we qualified.

Don't know about Dundalk but the Athlone qualification is NFQ level 7 and NFQ level 8 if you elect to do the fourth year.

Zapperzy · 31-07-2014 10:39pm

FueledByAisling wrote: »

Hi op, former VN Student here. UCD is the best college in the country to do the course as the facilities are excellent, you meet the future vets and it's the only level 7 in the country. All other VN courses are level 5/6, a lot of these students tend to go into grooming rather than the clinical end.

I take slight offence to this. Can't speak for the cork course as I don't know much about it but Letterkenny, Athlone and Dundalk are all level 7's. UCD is actually level 8 I thought. Not that levels actually matter in the real world beyond the CAO.

I was a 2nd year nurse on my 3rd placement with a 2nd year ucd nurse and it was her first time stepping foot in a practice outside of the ucd practice, she told me that the vet med students get preference in the ucd practice however true that is. I ended up having to show her quite a lot of basic stuff that I had picked up through placements.

I think it's quite unfair to knock all other courses without any experience of them. I know most of the graduates where I went are working in practice as nurses (and yes sometimes nurses also double as groomers in vets), there's a few not working in veterinary at all due to lack of jobs and no desire to emigrate (myself included).

thegreatgonzo · 31-07-2014 10:41pm

Sorry Aisling but in its last VCI inspection (Oct 2012) AIT came out as the top place in Ireland to do vet nursing based on course content, work placement and portfolio requirements etc. And as Boomerang rightly pointed out, it's a level 7 degree you get from AIT, Letterkenny and Dundalk. I'm in the process of completing my 4th year portfolio for the level 8 in practice management which involves modules purely on nutrition and advanced veterinary nursing among other things. I've already been offered a job on the strength of having done this extra year.
As for St John's, I recently met a new grad who just got her dream job in Canada. Because of the emphasis on practical experience, her skills and confidence as a new grad were really impressive.

thegreatgonzo · 31-07-2014 11:00pm

Zapperzy wrote: »

t. Not that levels actually matter in the real world beyond the CAO.

Totally agree.

I was a 2nd year nurse on my 3rd placement with a 2nd year ucd nurse and it was her first time stepping foot in a practice outside of the ucd practice, she told me that the vet med students get preference in the ucd practice however true that is. I ended up having to show her quite a lot of basic stuff that I had picked up through placements.
).

Same here. Also having to do non veterinary related electives in 1st and 2nd year, while good that people are getting a rounded university education, doesn't really give UCD students any advantage while on placement.

mrcheez · 29-08-2014 1:13pm

Zapperzy wrote: »

The country is currently over run with nurses

Just to reiterate this point.

My gf is fully qualified now over a year and job availability is sparse.

There were 50 people applying for one job she went to interview for!

So just let your GF know that job prospects are minimal if taking the nursing path. Perhaps veterinary medicine is better?

Xios · 29-08-2014 1:49pm

mrcheez wrote: »

Just to reiterate this point.

My gf is fully qualified now over a year and job availability is sparse.

There were 50 people applying for one job she went to interview for!

So just let your GF know that job prospects are minimal if taking the nursing path. Perhaps veterinary medicine is better?

Hey, thanks for the information. She has actually accept the new Bioveterinary Science course in Athlone. She will be starting in two weeks. It's not exactly what she wanted, but it's certainly in the right direction and the prospect of a career seems more likely in research than in practice. At least in Ireland anyway.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF · 29-08-2014 4:43pm

FueledByAisling wrote: »

In RE: to Vmed, UCD is the only college within ROI & NI. Points are hitting 600's and there's still a lottery on it. There's no mature student application, just postgrad. In order to enter post grad you really need a equine studies, ag science animal science or VN degree behind you. On top of this you need other animal experience, sit a entry exam followed by an interview. If you are lucky to make the cut, it is then another hefty average of €20,000 per annum of instuition fees for the 5 years.

i'm a vet, graduated 2009

back then the grads in my year did (from memory), IT studies, nursing (human), accountancy, chemistry, pharmacy

maybe the rules have changed, but i personally think a lab science is 10 times more useful than an animal science/husbandry course.

i cannot emphasise enough how bio/chemistry-based the course is, especially pre-clinical, whereas you will be assumed to have zero competence around animals. seriously, nobody expects you to know anything EXCEPT chemistry and lab techniques.

That said, the college don't seem to care what your undergrad is in... or they usen't to, despite what they claimed in the brochures.

Career in Veterinary Medicine/Nursing

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