Did the .50 Cal change the game in NI?

Klunk001 · 12-01-2013 10:55pm

yubabill1 wrote: »

Remember soldiers refusing to go out on patrol for fear of snipers or helicopters making "forced landings"? Discuss.

Did a bit of searching on this one. Came across a British military publication, operation Banner, an analysis of military ops in NI. It's in PDF format. Page 67 paragraph 610 Acknowledges a number of Helis did make forced landings due gunfire and Mortor.
Snipers and morale also get a mention, it's a 98 page publication so loads to read.

yubabill1 · 13-01-2013 9:13pm

Page 67 paragraph 610 Acknowledges a number of Helis did make forced landings due gunfire and Mortor.

Excellent piece of research, Klunk001.

Report concedes loss of control of the air would have been very detrimental to HM forces in NI.

Remember, around this time the Square Mile in the City (the financial district) was shut down by a bomb and Downing Street was mortared, among other attacks.

Now, couple the threat of losing control of the air with the mainland bombing campaigns and you have a recipe for talks.

I just want to counter the "official" accounts of what happened, with what I observed, in the name of balance.

CollardGreens · 14-01-2013 2:15am

Just to interject, a friends husband has a Barrett .50 cal and that was the best dang gun I've ever shot in my life ~ I literally got a high shooting that gun. At 75 yards (not sure what that is in metric) we got concerned that it was going through the giant dirt pile behind the board and yup...it was. Biggest bullet I've ever seen!

With the scope I only missed the target by half an inch (again, since I don't know metric I'd say about the size of a ladies little toe). The kick was not bad at all, no more than my 12G.

tac foley · 15-01-2013 10:56am

CollardGreens wrote: »

At 75 yards (not sure what that is in metric) we got concerned that it was going through the giant dirt pile behind the board and yup...it was. Biggest bullet I've ever seen!

That's not a very sensible thing to do. But hey! 1st Amendment and all that, right?

A 750gr .50cal bullet coming back at you at such a short range is going to leave a mark, that's for sure.

Just sayin'.

tac

tricky D · 15-01-2013 4:04pm

tac foley wrote: »

That's not a very sensible thing to do. But hey! 1st Amendment and all that, right?

A 750gr .50cal bullet coming back at you at such a short range is going to leave a mark, that's for sure.

Just sayin'.

tac

We're not doing that any more - no ******* kidding!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhysoS2DC8M

CollardGreens · 16-01-2013 2:02am

Hey Tac, read the constitution....It's the SECOND amendment (gun rights) the first one is freedom of speech. I'm jest say'in.

Tricky, love the video, thanks!

We were shooting a remake of the Gatlin too. It was safe, one of the families in the group owns the land and swamps behind the dirt pile. Worse thing we could have done was hit an alligator and I could use another handbag (wink).

The Barrett was on a tripod and it had a blow-back. Honestly, laying on the ground shooting with the pod there wasn't much kick, my 12G kicked more than the .50 did.

Will probably get to shoot the .50 again next month at the meeting and I got some new toys this year to try out on the dirt pile. No worries, the drinking didn't start till the guns were put up.

Shooting is a great sport, and you can't beat a .50 for a rush!

tac foley · 17-01-2013 2:20pm

CollardGreens wrote: »

Hey Tac, read the constitution....It's the SECOND amendment (gun rights) the first one is freedom of speech. I'm jest say'in.

Thank you for reminding me of the document on the wall in front of my eyeballs. I was not referring to the second, but to the first, your right to post whatever you care to either in speech or in writing, as here.

I've been a life member of the NRA since 4th July 1976, and you?

I'm just sayin' too.

tac

tac foley · 17-01-2013 2:22pm

tricky D wrote: »

We're not doing that any more - no ******* kidding!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhysoS2DC8M

...and that was just a part of the jacket, NOT the complete bullet.

Me, I thought by now that EVERYBODY had seen this jerk in action......

tac

Neutronale · 20-04-2013 4:56pm

http://youtu.be/cTjMw02gc20

meathstevie · 26-04-2013 10:18pm

tac foley wrote: »

...and that was just a part of the jacket, NOT the complete bullet.

Me, I thought by now that EVERYBODY had seen this jerk in action......

tac

He's one lucky man...

On a different note, there's also examples of very effective counter actions by the army when heavy Russian machine guns were used. One example is this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK5Mzzbw4To. I do not intend by any means to start a debate on the right or wrong of this action from either end but just to illustrate a particular incident.

lanyard · 27-04-2013 1:20pm

Dogwatch wrote: »

You seem to know a lot about my qualifications all of a sudden!!!!!!!!

You still have not provided any evidence to support anything you have said, just more rhetoric.
maybe you are not a troll but something worse, a journo in disguise.

I have no issue with anything you say, i would prefer if you would back it with some evidence.
Until then it is just waffle

Ugh - accusing people of being trolls and journalists straight of the bat is no way to contribute to a thread.

There is plenty of evidence of the scum brigade using gunfire to bring down helios:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIdNwxvQJU4

Neutronale · 28-04-2013 5:32pm

lanyard wrote: »

Ugh - accusing people of being trolls and journalists straight of the bat is no way to contribute to a thread.

There is plenty of evidence of the scum brigade using gunfire to bring down helios:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIdNwxvQJU4

The scum brigade were in the helios

maccored · 08-06-2013 10:42pm

i can remember this being on the news - shooting at helicopter and forcing a helicopter to land. Plus i also remember the british government denying any helicopter was shot down initially. they admitted it had happened after a week or two if i remember correctly. EDIT - maybe they only denied it for hours - i cant remember

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a1_1356212345

Azwaldo55 · 07-08-2014 4:52pm

The .50 cal rifle is very bulky, hard to smuggle into a region that is infested with security forces, is wasted if it is used by an unskilled operator and will likely be used only one anyway since the shooter will have to escape and leave the weapon behind. A person with an Irish accent during the Troubles sauntering into a gunshop and buying a heavy calibre rifle would have raised alarm bells especially after a successful attack. The obvious place to buy one was in the U.S. and the FBI co-operate with the British intelligence services so a look out for such a purchase would have been quickly discovered and that smuggling avenue pinched off. To set up a sniper attack would require a specially modified vehicle - leaving behind lots of evidence if it is abandoned. Alternatively a specially constructed hide which would take time to construct, potentially giving the game away to the enemy before the attack and would also have to be abandoned. So while the use of the .50 cal would terrify soldiers or helicopter pilots or vehicle drivers its use would be limited and its usefulness would be limited.
The flash of a .50 cal is a dead give away to a counter sniper team and an IRA team risked being killed by a British sniper or by machine gunfire directed at their vehicle or hide.
It would have been far more useful to just shoot off duty members of the security forces or shoot local loyalists figures rather than launch a high risk and wasteful attack on the security forces.
The killing of off duty security force members and bomb attacks on commercial properties and attacks in Britain proved to be far more effective than a direct military style attack.

tac foley · 07-08-2014 9:47pm

Azwaldo55 wrote: »

The .50 cal rifle is very bulky, hard to smuggle into a region that is infested with security forces, is wasted if it is used by an unskilled operator and will likely be used only one anyway since the shooter will have to escape and leave the weapon behind. A person with an Irish accent during the Troubles sauntering into a gunshop and buying a heavy calibre rifle would have raised alarm bells especially after a successful attack. The obvious place to buy one was in the U.S. and the FBI co-operate with the British intelligence services so a look out for such a purchase would have been quickly discovered and that smuggling avenue pinched off. To set up a sniper attack would require a specially modified vehicle - leaving behind lots of evidence if it is abandoned. Alternatively a specially constructed hide which would take time to construct, potentially giving the game away to the enemy before the attack and would also have to be abandoned. So while the use of the .50 cal would terrify soldiers or helicopter pilots or vehicle drivers its use would be limited and its usefulness would be limited.
The flash of a .50 cal is a dead give away to a counter sniper team and an IRA team risked being killed by a British sniper or by machine gunfire directed at their vehicle or hide.
It would have been far more useful to just shoot off duty members of the security forces or shoot local loyalists figures rather than launch a high risk and wasteful attack on the security forces.
The killing of off duty security force members and bomb attacks on commercial properties and attacks in Britain proved to be far more effective than a direct military style attack.

I'm not really sure where to start to begin to respond to this post, bearing in mind the almighty number of impossibilities and unlikelihoods it contains. I suppose I could deal with them one at a time, but TBH, but herself wants me to finish painting the spare room.

Are you doing research for a game? More to the point, have you read how the .50 cal rifle was used in the North?

tac, there when it happened.

Azwaldo55 · 10-08-2014 3:14pm

tac foley wrote: »

I'm not really sure where to start to begin to respond to this post, bearing in mind the almighty number of impossibilities and unlikelihoods it contains. I suppose I could deal with them one at a time, but TBH, but herself wants me to finish painting the spare room.

Are you doing research for a game? More to the point, have you read how the .50 cal rifle was used in the North?

tac, there when it happened.

I have read how it was used and from what I have read the IRA snipers were put out of business. They got a handful of British soldiers but they didn't make a dent really in the British presence in the North. It was all sound and fury signifying nothing. The Sniper At Work signs were witty propaganda and sold well in the Shinner shop but other than that the .50 cal made little impact (excuse the pun).

skooterblue2 · 11-08-2014 9:17am

Wars arent always fought on one level ...... The Barrett light 50 were an instrument of terror in South Armagh.
They brought in a revenue stream ..... They had at least two high profile murders, a part time Woman police constable and a young fusilier? I think there was something about it in either of Andy McNabbs or Chris Ryan's Books ...... The sniper was not on his own and was protected by spotters. I would say up to a point it was successful.

In the end the informers gave them up, the IRA is riddled with them. All the lads were caught only to be let out on the Good Friday agreement

Did the .50 Cal change the game in NI?

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