Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

189111314102

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    maybe.. wait and see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭BHG


    just some quick quips - not all firmly held views.

    good news FTA - bad news €200+ for new equipment - bad news 9E - good news HD

    If SaorSat is infill for where 2% can't get DTT should/n't RTÉ fund the equipment. Precedent exist with LW radios to the emigrants in the UK after MW was shut down.

    If SaorSat is HD it will be superior to Sky - duplication - rationalisation - rethink encrypted RTE? Duplicate Up links?

    If SaorSat was fed by Sky and DTT was fed by SaorSat to cut down on ground links, I would have news of a goal in a GAA game via twitter 5 seconds ahead of DTT. I get these issues on Radiio 1 Sat DAB & FM in different rooms of the house, if I run backwards I have a playback loop :)

    2011 Q2 too optimistic - when are the London Games ? Q3 2012.

    this DTT on USB that sky italia are doing looks interesting via
    http://www.techtir.ie/taxonomy/term/1000118


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,099 ✭✭✭John mac


    BHG wrote: »
    should/n't RTÉ fund the equipment. Precedent exist with LW radios to the emigrants in the UK after MW was shut down.

    How can i get one of these ?

    How many were given out?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's up to Dept of Foriegn Affairs, not RTE, for UK,

    But yes, Government (not RTE) should pay for free dish installs in areas with no DTT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    BHG wrote: »
    If SaorSat is HD it will be superior to Sky - duplication - rationalisation - rethink encrypted RTE? Duplicate Up links?

    If SaorSat was fed by Sky and DTT was fed by SaorSat to cut down on ground links, I would have news of a goal in a GAA game via twitter 5 seconds ahead of DTT. I get these issues on Radiio 1 Sat DAB & FM in different rooms of the house, if I run backwards I have a playback loop :)

    Sky platform and Saorsat need separate uplinks, different place in sky.
    Content different too.
    Sky Irish content has to be encrypted.
    An uplink is a once off cost.
    Sky pay for carriage of the four ( or five?) Irish (non-HD) channels on Sky.

    There is not actually duplication as Saorsat and Sky are as separate as UPC and Sky.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    People have to get it out of their heads that the transmission of Irish channels on Sky are somehow coordinated by RTE. It is Sky's infrastructure and satellite transponder on 28.2. They pay for everything. It is very different to the FTA freesat channels that are broadcast on transponders owned by freesat on Astra 28.2. RTE have no right nor call on what happens here in the same way that RTE cant tell UPC what to do with their equipment.

    When Saorsat goes live it will be on an transponder owned or leased by RTENL the same as freesat. In the near impossible event that RTE wanted to do something on Astra 28.2 themselves it would be on a different transponder which they would have to buy/lease and pay for all transmission. It wont happen even in FTV mode for cost reasons unless Sky go it alone with an FTV solution which i dont see happening no matter what others are saying. The option RTE have come up with is the best and most economical of whats possible.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    I still think the option RTE have chosen is the worst of all worlds. A non-standard satellite that is simply too far from the established 28.2 position to allow multiple LNBs on a single dish apart from the Wavefrontier enthusiast dishes. There is still the legal restriction of one dish per house and we don't know if TV3 will come willingly on board on the dedicated Saorsat slot. I suspect they won't without a fight.

    Of course here I declare my interest and would love to have legal access to RTE & TG4 without the hassle of going to get an Irish Sky sub.

    A TNTSAT style solution would have worked and I don't think the costs would have been prohibitive - weren't Real Digital talking about a low cost subscription service?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭slegs


    rlogue wrote: »
    I still think the option RTE have chosen is the worst of all worlds. A non-standard satellite that is simply too far from the established 28.2 position to allow multiple LNBs on a single dish apart from the Wavefrontier enthusiast dishes. There is still the legal restriction of one dish per house and we don't know if TV3 will come willingly on board on the dedicated Saorsat slot. I suspect they won't without a fight.

    Of course here I declare my interest and would love to have legal access to RTE & TG4 without the hassle of going to get an Irish Sky sub.

    A TNTSAT style solution would have worked and I don't think the costs would have been prohibitive - weren't Real Digital talking about a low cost subscription service?

    Real Digital planned a PAY TV business just like Sky/UPC. While the competition they will generate is welcome they are not the solution for free TV. 28.2 on an FTV card is too expensive for the reasons Watty has outlined. And at that it is still not on the Sky EPG so people would still need a new receiver or live with other channels access. How much better is that really considering the huge extra cost?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    So a Humax Foxsat PVR should do it?

    OK, wishful thinking ahead alert!

    It really wouldn't be that technically difficult to add a few lines of programming to the firmware on a Freesat box, that when you'd enter an ROI postcode (e.g. RTE D4), the receiver would generate the appropriate Diseqc signal (port 1) to switch to the 9E LNBF when you select RTÉ 2, or a different Diseqc signal (port 2) switching to 28E LNBF for BBC1. In other words, a Freesat box for ROI. And for NI just as importantly, given the commitments in the GFA.

    There is some precedent with the earlier, if ultimately unsuccessful, customised firmware on the Sat4Free boxes.

    And while there is some argument about whether Freesat must remain a UK only entreprise (the excuse given by Panasonic why they wouldn't help out Irish customers who bought non-compliant Panasonic Freesat TVs), both LG and Sony are openly selling Freesat TVs in Ireland.

    Plus, RTÉ are already connected with Freesat by way of the radio channels on the Freesat EPG.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Apogee wrote: »
    OK, wishful thinking ahead alert!

    It really wouldn't be that technically difficult to add a few lines of programming to the firmware on a Freesat box, that when you'd enter an ROI postcode (e.g. RTE D4), the receiver would generate the appropriate Diseqc signal (port 1) to switch to the 9E LNBF when you select RTÉ 2, or a different Diseqc signal (port 2) switching to 28E LNBF for BBC1. In other words, a Freesat box for ROI. And for NI just as importantly, given the commitments in the GFA.

    Well, there are two tuners in a Foxsat box, could one be connected to the Saorsat LNB/dish, and the other to the Astra 28.2 LNB/dish. Then you would just need to select the tuner for watching/recording.

    Simples.:)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    No, even better is that both tuners would output diseqc signals, so you use 2x dual (or quad) LNBFS and 2 disqec switches. THen you have total flexibility.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Apogee wrote: »
    No, even better is that both tuners would output diseqc signals, so you use 2x dual (or quad) LNBFS and 2 disqec switches. THen you have total flexibility.

    Well, that would require two diseqc switches, which is a complication and a cost that is not needed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,325 ✭✭✭✭Tony


    Well, that would require two diseqc switches, which is a complication and a cost that is not needed.

    It would be very limited without two diseq switches

    Desktop PC Boards discount code on https://www.satellite.ie/ is boards.ie



  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    You need 2 x diseqc switch or a small multiswitch. for a PVR

    I have showed this
    120587.png

    to various people and the consensus is that it's extremely unlikely to be counted as 2nd dish.

    MMDS are actually mesh dish and are not counted. Appearance is all.

    Construction:
    It has no arm out front as the LNB fits in a hole at the rear of the 44cm dish. A small reflector on the plastic lid bounces the main dish signal back to the LNB poking through. The 44cm dish is totally enclosed. 8 screws hold on the lid (from rear), but these are only for factory assembly. It comes assembled (including the Universal Ku LNB pre-fitted) and you only need adjust LNBF squew and fit dish bracket to pole/mount. LNBF can only be remove if dish is off bracket though. One screw and plastic clamp.

    I'll talk to the factory and get price with Ka LNBF included instead of Universal Ku LNBF. (Yes the €25 wholesale price includes bracket, mount and LNBF!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭BHG


    and RTÉ can do all this a mid a recession for €1.5M - but couldn't do what they are mandated by legislation to do, Diaspora TV due to being broke?

    So RTE International must at some stage be added to the mix of RTÉ output. Perhaps they could fund it with MW transmission savings. Nope, they spent that on DAB but would rather got DAB+ now.

    RTÉ - do you plan it this way or does it just happen.
    In fact has RTÉ sought external expert advice on this? has the Minister been briefed?
    I won't be buying anything or holding my breath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    BHG wrote: »
    has the Minister been briefed?

    Please Jesus, I hope not. Can we keep him away from it for as long as possible?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    This year I got a FTA Dish/STB, (and I'm very happy indeed), all the BBC's I could wish for + all the ITV's + Sky news + loads of Radio, & soooo much more. We get RTE from a loft aerial, which comes in handy for the Nine O'Clock news, but 99.9% of the time we use the Astra dish.

    So just to clarify, if I want RTE Digital going forward, then I will need a second FTA Dish ? :confused:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Bazzer2


    Camelot wrote: »
    Last year I gotan FTA Dish/STB this year, (and I'm very happy indeed), all the BBC's I could wish for + all the ITV's + Sky news + loads of Radio, & soooo much more. We get RTE from a loft aerial, which comes in handy for the Nine O'Clock news, but 99.9% of the time we use the Astra dish.

    So just to clarify, if I want RTE Digital going forward, then I will need a second FTA Dish ? :confused:

    Unless you can get RTE Digital from existing terrestrial/cable, then a setup for Saorsat should be your last option.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Bazzer2 wrote: »
    Unless you can get RTE Digital from existing terrestrial/cable, then a setup for Saorsat should be your last option.

    Actually, if the dish for Saorsat cost less than €50, (based on Watty's wholesale price) then it is quite competative with a decent aerial. Decent aerials would be used attached to a chimney, whereas the dish can de mounted at near ground level. Assuming DIY installation of dish, compared with professional installer for chimney (as it is high up), I think Saorsat would be used quite widely in many parts of Ireland. For example, many MMDS chicken wire dishes are visible around Dublin, where cable is king.

    Remember, the Saorsat signal can be distributed like an aerial signal as it is only in one quadrant of the sat signal. {Afterthought}


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Remember, the Saorsat signal can be distributed like an aerial signal as it is only in one quadrant of the sat signal. {Afterthought}

    It's better than that, as there are only different polarities on a typical Ka-LNBF, so no lo- or hi-band switching. So it's halves rather than quadrants that apply.

    Depending on the width of the freq range, you could even send both polarities down the one cable simultaneously, known as a "stacked LNBF" - similar to the approach used by a stacker/destacker.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    BHG wrote: »
    and RTÉ can do all this a mid a recession for €1.5M - but couldn't do what they are mandated by legislation to do, Diaspora TV due to being broke?

    So RTE International must at some stage be added to the mix of RTÉ output. Perhaps they could fund it with MW transmission savings. Nope, they spent that on DAB but would rather got DAB+ now.

    Diaspora TV and RTE International have not been "mandated". I think these are both good ideas. But like virtually every other country should be directly paid for by Government, typically Dept. of Foreign affairs.

    The €1.5M ka band feed is a solution to meet what RTE and RTE have been "mandated" and have obligation to do. Universal Coverage in Ireland.

    "Sky" is used as emergency backup for RTE analogue TX. Doing that on DTT has four problems:

    1) MPEG4 Headend encoders at EVERY TX about €50,000 per Mux, total rollout cost €5M. Reduced quality due to re-encoding.
    2) Sky doesn't actually have all the proposed DTT Content. Sky pays carriage cost for existing Sky Irish Content and control it. It would cost maybe €10M p.a. to add the missing content, if there was space, excluding encryption costs.
    3) 200+ Sky boxes ( just for four channels), viewing cards (and possibly expensive subscriptions?) One per channel per site. If all content was covered inc Radio, then about 1275 Sky boxes needed.
    4)Using a Sky box there is no Interactive/EPG backup feed.

    Using RTENL paid for carriage on Kasat (probably) solves these issues:
    1) Ka uplink can be exact copy of "Transport stream" used by a Mux. A single "professional" satellite receiver can output the digital Transport stream (all channels on one coax) and feed the DTT transmitter modulator direct. Saves upt to €5M and allows small cheap "fill-in" DTT TX for a clump of houses fed direct by sat instead of a dish on each house.
    2) No encryption needed. No foreign Media/PayTV control and only €1.5M per mux p.a. About 1/10th to 1/20th of 28.2E costs. Plenty of expansion space.
    3) Only one Satellite receiver per Mux needed. Total 102 for ALL Soarview TV and Radio channels.
    4) Backup can include MHEG5, EPG etc.

    The Ka service also allows FTA Satellite complete copy of Saorview for Public (even on Media PCs). Even 150 DTT TX would require a full copy on Satellite for the 0.5% to 1% of people outside of coverage. The cost of this on Sky/28.2E would be €12M to €30M per year for RTE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Apogee wrote: »
    It's better than that, as there are only different polarities on a typical Ka-LNBF, so no lo- or hi-band switching. So it's halves rather than quadrants that apply.

    Depending on the width of the freq range, you could even send both polarities down the one cable simultaneously, known as a "stacked LNBF" - similar to the approach used by a stacker/destacker.
    You need hi/lo switching to get the whole band. What you say is true for C-band, not always Ka-band.

    It's likely no switching, not even polarity switching is needed, I agree, but technically the entire band is
    Tone Off = 18.3 .. 18.8Ghz
    Tone On = 19.7 .. 20.2Ghz

    But ... each spot can only have 1/4 of all the frequencies.
    Even if there was more than one transponder for TV AND Internet, all the downlink has to be on same Polarity, absolutely. It's 99.9% likely it has to be on same part of band too or the 80 spot satellite is then more complicated than needed.

    Same colour = same Frequencies/Polarity, Different colour = different frequencies / Polarity
    500px-KA-SAT_spot_beams_coverage.jpg
    There are FOUR flavours of spot (logical if you think about it)

    Obviously for one transponder, no switching per channel is needed. But it seems 99.9% likely all downlinks on spot are in same band have to be in same polarity. Simple IF distribution, splitter to feed PVR (or 2 x Diseqc if using Freesat and PVR also)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Camelot wrote: »
    Last year I gotan FTA Dish/STB this year, (and I'm very happy indeed), all the BBC's I could wish for + all the ITV's + Sky news + loads of Radio, & soooo much more. We get RTE from a loft aerial, which comes in handy for the Nine O'Clock news, but 99.9% of the time we use the Astra dish.

    So just to clarify, if I want RTE Digital going forward, then I will need a second FTA Dish ? :confused:

    Over 90% of people can/will get Saorview (RTE Digital) terrestrial via an aerial. The loft aerial + a Saorview Set-box (Or other suitable receiver) will work. If you want it via Satellite as well as BBC you need a FTA receiver that does HD and 2nd small boxed dish http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67010156&postcount=315 with a Diseqc switch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    You need hi/lo switching to get the whole band.

    Where do you get that from? What are you assuming the band will be?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Tone Off = 18.3 .. 18.8Ghz
    Tone On = 19.7 .. 20.2Ghz

    But you could be right that Ka sat doesn't use 2GHz, but even if it did we would be unlikely to ever need to switch band or polarity...

    A) You don't need the whole band, ever. Only what is in one Spot. Kasat is same as the WildBlue system in USA, except Kasat is 80 spot on one satellite and Wildblue uses 60+ spots, but carried by two satellites. The vendor presentations I had all 2GHz downlink total.. but 1/4 used per spot

    B) I don't have the exact spot lineup for Kasat, but I have this chart for an existing Ka band Satellite in Europe
    120477.gif
    This satellite doesn't have full Ka Band capacity, so indeed doesn't need band switching.

    This post http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66956673&postcount=224


    Strictly speaking the downlink is in K band and only the Uplink is in Ka band
    Ku = Under K band.
    Ka = Above K band.

    The lower part of what Satellite Tv calls Ku is actually top of X band.
    The Ka band uplink uses frequencies between 27.5GHz and 31Ghz and the downlink uses frequencies between 18.3 and 18.8Ghz and between 19.7 and 20.2Ghz. The Ka band is branch of the K band from the electromagnetic spectrum. The term "Ka-band" is from Kurz-above, which originates from the German phrase "kurz" implying short.

    Ka band dishes can be much smaller than C band dishes. Ka band dishes vary from 2' to 5' in diameter.

    The current "Ka Band" for "tooway" Internet on 13E (frequency table above) is only using the high half (tone on) part of band.

    Two way systems always use
    a higher band segment for transmit
    differing Polarisation for TX & RX (to increase isolation)

    Other info
    http://www.viasat.com/news/50-million-infrastructure-contract-new-eutelsat-all-ka-band-satellite
    ViaSat has received a $50 million contract award from Skylogic, the broadband subsidiary of Eutelsat Communications (Eutelsat Communications-Euronext Paris: ETL) for on-ground baseband infrastructure for the previously announced high-capacity KA-SAT Ka-band satellite system. Under the contract, ViaSat will deliver and install broadband equipment for 10 KA-SAT gateways in Europe. The gateways will connect subscribers of Eutelsat Tooway™ satellite broadband service to the Internet. The ViaSat ground infrastructure will be available for the KA-SAT launch scheduled for the third quarter of 2010.
    ...
    KA-SAT is a high capacity Ka-band spot beam satellite with planned coverage over Europe, the Middle East, and Northern Africa. With a capacity estimated at 70 Gbps, KA-SAT is expected to be (at launch) the highest capacity satellite in the world.
    Also http://www.viasat.com/news/18-million-broadband-gateway-contract-new-eutelsat-ka-band-ka-sat-satellite
    ViaSat Inc. (NASDAQ: VSAT) has received an $18 million contract award from Skylogic, the broadband subsidiary of Eutelsat Communications (Eutelsat Communications-Euronext Paris: ETL) for broadband gateway earth stations for the previously announced high-capacity KA-SAT Ka-band satellite system. ViaSat is under contract to deliver and install eight broadband earth station antennas throughout Europe, as well as provide maintenance and support services. The earth station gateways are designed to connect subscribers of Eutelsat Tooway™ satellite broadband service to the Internet. The ViaSat ground infrastructure will be available for the KA-SAT launch scheduled for mid-2010.

    This award is in addition to the gateway infrastructure system contract announced in September 2008.

    80 spots so 70/80 = 0.875 Gbps = 875Mbps capacity per spot!

    http://www.satnews.com/cgi-bin/display_story.cgi?number=127726823
    Designed to operate for 15 years, it will have a launch mass of 5.8 tons and a payload consuming more than 11 kW of power, with solar arrays generating 15 kW of power.

    The existing Hotbird 6 @ 13E is using the Ka Tooway technology
    The WildBlue system has been using this Ka band DOCSIS Internet in USA since 2006

    RTE needs less than 1/10th of the Irish Spot capacity, ever? It's primarily a satellite designed for Internet. So actually half the downlink capacity will not be for user but for Earthstation to receive the user's uplink.

    This means that even if the entire band is used, that Apogee is correct, a user would only need half of it (unless trying to listen to users uplink, which is TDMA not DVB and encrypted using DOCSIS).

    One of these fire sticks will launch it
    http://space.skyrocket.de/index_frame.htm?http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_sdat/ka-sat.htm


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    watty wrote: »
    Diaspora TV and RTE International have not been "mandated". I think these are both good ideas. But like virtually every other country should be directly paid for by Government, typically Dept. of Foreign affairs.


    Watty, it's in legislation that RTÉ must provide this service. Eamon Ryan has been very easy - too easy on RTÉ and allowed the overseas version of the RTÉ player and the occasional live feed on the website to be a sort of replacement for Diaspora TV but a poor quality web video is no replacement for proper video.

    Note that Conor Hayes, the RTÉ executive who announced Saorsat is the same Conor Hayes who deliberately shut Tara TV down in 2002 to pave the way for the RTÉ-Sky deal.

    Hayes has history on stopping expats from watching Irish TV but I believe there are stats out there that estimate 200,000 Irish Sky boxes are currently outside the state. Those boxes aren't outside the state to watch Discovery or Sky One. They are outside the state because expats like myself want to watch our own TV.

    We can argue the toss on whether the DFA or RTE should fund Diaspora TV but none of this would have been necessary if Conor Hayes had not pulled the plug on Tara in 2002 and RTE should now meet their legal obligations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The closing of Tara was despicable.

    I agree with what you say, but Irish Sky boxes that are currently outside the state and People outside the state, are subjects for a different thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I updated http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=67012628&postcount=326

    I was being too pedantic about what Apogee said, I apologise to Apogee.

    However I was agreeing that IF distribution/splitting (even if more than one transponder is used) will be a doddle.

    More factoids added about "Ka-sat"


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,760 ✭✭✭Apogee


    I haven't been able to find any proper specs for Ka-sat - I don't think they've been release publically yet - but my hunch is that it will use a contiguous portion of the Ka-band and avoid the complexity of dual oscillators. Considering that Tooway/Hotbird only uses 500MHz currently, so could easily be expanded to 900MHz e.g. 19.7GHz to 20.6GHz (with the caveat that even small changes in the Ka region can have a big impact on signal attenuation by atmospheric moisture.)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Even if it does use the whole band, likely the lower half (poorer gain) will be used by the earth stations receiving the user Internet uplink, so we will be fine anyway...

    We can't work out the MHz used from the 875MBps data rate per spot, as the Kasat does several stuff on Internet links
    1) Adaptive Code. Varies from QPSK to higher codes at same symbol rate for rain/sun. Thus bit rate varies even at fixed symbol rate! Obviously not used on non-Internet DVB.
    2) We don't know the FEC. Again may not be fixed on Internet traffic
    3) DVB-S2 vs DVB-s Data rate *Maybe* 30% higher for same MHz as DVBs, see (1).

    Be hilarious.. After 15 years of telling people they can't split an LNB feed, now you can.

    The extreme cheapness of the Saorsat is of course because all four satellites at 28.2E together is less than 2Gbps total bandwidth and it's mostly for TV and this one satellite (intended entirely for cheap Internet) has 70 Gbps by reusing each group of frequency/polarity 20 times on 80 spots.

    This is the 3rd satellite of this kind. The 4th one is in USA late next year and will have 110 spots. So Kasat may have the "mantle" of highest capacity sat for only a year. There are more planned for Europe.

    We had a big shortage of capacity due to two major launch failures a few years back. If these next high capacity "birds" are OK, then capacity will be very cheap (but only on Ka Spot beams). It will remain comparatively expensive to do a TV channel over all of Western Europe on Ku (BBC World TV. DW TV, etc). Doing it over all of Western Europe via Ka would be more expensive as you would have to rent space on 20 to 40 spots!

    The price of a Transponder on one Ka-Spot could drop to 1/20th of cost of a West Europe Ku Beam.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement