Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

emmet02 · 10-04-2011 9:14pm

Duffy is solid and unremarkable.

Pretty much exactly the kind of guy we need to be able to call on for some of the WC games, when we need to put together solid but unremarkable wins.

I like him, its criminal that he hasn't been involved imo.

Dave Joyce · 10-04-2011 9:16pm

Why is it that people just seem to write him off for no particular reason?

Because he's from Connacht and we don't play in the Heineken Cup:rolleyes: regardless of well we do in the Magners or Amlin (not this year admittedly:()

CatFromHue · 10-04-2011 9:25pm

id say because he came on the scene for ireland in 2005 or so. he played against the springboks in south africa in the centre i think. he went to harlequins who then got relegated so he kinda fell off the radar completely.

ireland have had dempsey and murphy at 15 and then kearney and murphy. so we were will stocked with full backs.

he also plays for an unfashionable club which count against him somewhat.

id rate him higher than murphy at the moment to be honest and this season he has been pretty good for connacht.

Sin a bhfuil · 10-04-2011 9:29pm

emmet02 wrote: »

Duffy is solid and unremarkable.

Pretty much exactly the kind of guy we need to be able to call on for some of the WC games, when we need to put together solid but unremarkable wins.

I like him, its criminal that he hasn't been involved imo.

Was he not out injured for a couple of months coming into the Six Nations? I seem to recall Ian Keatley lining out at fullback instead of him.

Jemo · 10-04-2011 10:17pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Was he not out injured for a couple of months coming into the Six Nations? I seem to recall Ian Keatley lining out at fullback instead of him.

Yeah, as far as I know he came back about the same time as Fitzy but wasn't afforded the same opportunity to regain form. If only we could revoke Nacewa's couple of minutes for Fiji and get him to sign up

Otacon · 11-04-2011 12:34pm

If we had to go tomorrow, Earls would be my FB. But seeing as we have a few months, it really could be any of the above.

Jones is in with a fantastic chance. Seeing as Kidney seems blind to Duffy, him and Earls seem like the only options [who will have enough gametime] and as both are rather versatile, it could go either way.

SomeFool · 11-04-2011 2:18pm

Earls for me with Tommy and Trimble on the wings but there's a bit of rugby to be played yet so this may well change. Looking at the players currently unavailable for Ireland, (Flannery, O' Connell, Ferris, Kearney, Murphy) injury will unfortunatly play a part in who is selected for the world cup.

totallegend · 11-04-2011 3:59pm

Otacon wrote: »

If we had to go tomorrow, Earls would be my FB. But seeing as we have a few months, it really could be any of the above.

Jones is in with a fantastic chance. Seeing as Kidney seems blind to Duffy, him and Earls seem like the only options [who will have enough gametime] and as both are rather versatile, it could go either way.

Lads, I just don't see this being any way realistic. Jones has not had any big games in which to show us that he's up to international standard, except maybe the Leinster game and he was quiet enough in that.

The full-back options are Kearney/Earls/Murphy/Fitzgerald and Jones is a long, long way back in the pecking order. Regardless of game time, if Kearney is fit in August, he'll be on the plane to NZ.

bamboozle · 11-04-2011 4:53pm

i find it comical the hysteria from some regarding Jones, he's played a few games on the trot in his third season with Munster and there are ridiculous claims for him to be on the national team, Kearny, Duffy, Earls, G. Murphy, Bowe would all currently be ahead of him in consideration for full back on irish team.

as it stands McFadden will be very lucky to make the world cup squad and he has proven his ability at Churchill, Magners, HC and 6 nations over the last 24 months. The WC is too early for Jones, i certainly hope he continutes to improve and stay fit.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 6:52pm

bamboozle wrote: »

i find it comical the hysteria from some regarding Jones, he's played a few games on the trot in his third season with Munster and there are ridiculous claims for him to be on the national team, Kearny, Duffy, Earls, G. Murphy, Bowe would all currently be ahead of him in consideration for full back on irish team.

as it stands McFadden will be very lucky to make the world cup squad and he has proven his ability at Churchill, Magners, HC and 6 nations over the last 24 months. The WC is too early for Jones, i certainly hope he continutes to improve and stay fit.

Anthony Foley never struck me as being hysterical. (Taken off the Munster fans site). Note this was before he played a Munster 'A' match about a month ago.

Foley backs jones for Ireland

Irish Independent
Wednesday March 16, 2011

Munster 'A' coach Anthony Foley believes Felix Jones can mount a late bid for World Cup selection, providing he comes through today's 'A' inter-provincial showdown against the Ulster Ravens at Shaw's Bridge (kick-off 3.30pm).

The 24-year-old full-back has barely played any rugby at all over the past 15 months, having suffered a serious neck injury in December 2009 before rupturing his cruciate ligament three games into his return last September.

However, the former U-20 Grand Slam winner has once again battled his way back to full fitness, and Foley believes he has what it takes to push for World Cup inclusion.

"Why not?" said the former Munster and Ireland No 8. "Everyone has seen what the lad is capable of doing. Hopefully he will get a run of games and make a push for that World Cup squad.

"Felix is electric. Even when you're just out on the training pitch coaching him, he brings an extra bounce and an extra buzz to the whole thing."

Luke is definately out of contention for a spot at Full Back. He got a few chances there for both Leinster & Ireland. Kearney is injured and has been out for months now. Even at that, his form wasn't great before his injury. He has to reinvent himself as a counter attacking fullback coming back from an injury. Similar situation with regard to Geordan Murphy - not in great form before his injury, but at least he is due back in the next couple of weeks so we will see how he does. Gavin Duffy has also been injured, but he isn't going to get particularly meaningful gametime at this stage as Connacht's season is more or less over (he won't have magners playoffs or Amlin knock outs). And why would you move our best wingers from their best positions? (Bowe & Earls). Jones has something going for him - he is very comfortable counter attacking and he is combing well with Earls on the wing.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 7:00pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

...

Luke is definately out of contention for a spot at Full Back. H.....

An absolutely outrageous statement.

Luke Fitzgerald, an established winger by all accounts, misses out on rugby for almost a full calendar year due to injury. Within 5 weeks (?) of his first game back he is asked to play a foreign position with the national team. Surprise surprise things don't go according to plan. It wouldn't have taken a psychic to see this, we all predicted it here tbh!

Just as Jones, Duffy, D'Arcy will be competing for the dedicated FB spot, Earls, Fitzgerald and Bowe will be competing for the chance to deny them that spot.

Kearney and Murphy will be busting balls to get back from injury.

It's fairly insane to write Luke's chances at FB off based on his "return from injury" games.

Obviously he will have to do a lot to turn around the damage done to his name after the 6N, but everyone competing for the position has an awful lot to prove over the next 6 months.

PhatPiggins · 11-04-2011 7:01pm

bamboozle wrote: »

i find it comical the hysteria from some regarding Jones, he's played a few games on the trot in his third season with Munster and there are ridiculous claims for him to be on the national team, Kearny, Duffy, Earls, G. Murphy, Bowe would all currently be ahead of him in consideration for full back on irish team.

as it stands McFadden will be very lucky to make the world cup squad and he has proven his ability at Churchill, Magners, HC and 6 nations over the last 24 months. The WC is too early for Jones, i certainly hope he continutes to improve and stay fit.

Remember when there was the Denis Hurley for Ireland brigade

Jones is a different class but I can't see him making it. that said Duffy doesn't appear to be rated and Gerdon Murphy might not be fit in time so you never know

profitius · 11-04-2011 7:31pm

If Jones has the talent and the temperament to be an international then bring him along. Jones has not played too many top class games but he has proved himself in all of them. I can't remember too many mistakes he has made if any.

From somebody who doesn't know him he looks like he is ambitious and is willing to back himself and he certainly has the talent.

Theres still some hard matches coming up so we'll see how he goes. Theres plenty of time to push himself forward as a genuine contender for a world cup squad. Maybe the injuries will have cost him he WC place but after the WC I think we'll be seeing more of him in an Ireland shirt.

The way things are going you couldn't bring Luke Fitz to the world cup. He needs a big improvement because Ireland need players we can rely on in big matches.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 7:36pm

profitius wrote: »

The way things are going you couldn't bring Luke Fitz to the world cup. He needs a big improvement because Ireland need players we can rely on in big matches.

aye, luckily we've 6 months to hone these guys. Jones will develop in those months, and hopefully Luke can get back to his old self too.

totallegend · 11-04-2011 8:41pm

profitius wrote: »

If Jones has the talent and the temperament to be an international then bring him along. Jones has not played too many top class games but he has proved himself in all of them. I can't remember too many mistakes he has made if any....

The way things are going you couldn't bring Luke Fitz to the world cup. He needs a big improvement because Ireland need players we can rely on in big matches.

For a minute there, I thought you were suggesting we would leave a Lions test player, grand slam ever-present, HC and ML winner at home and bring along a guy who has yet to make a SINGLE appearance in the HC.

Then I regathered my senses and realised that no-one would seriously suggest that. Phew.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 9:14pm

emmet02 wrote: »

An absolutely outrageous statement.

Luke Fitzgerald, an established winger by all accounts, misses out on rugby for almost a full calendar year due to injury. Within 5 weeks (?) of his first game back he is asked to play a foreign position with the national team. Surprise surprise things don't go according to plan. It wouldn't have taken a psychic to see this, we all predicted it here tbh!

Luke Fitzgerald is an established winger coming back from injury who can't seem to find form as a winger at club level, let alone as a fullback at international level. Earls, Bowe & Trimble all had injuries coming into the 6Ns and all found form. Earls played better at fullback than Luke did in the one chance he got at fullback, even though Earls was coming back from injury himself and normally plays centre for club and wing for Ireland. Luke was dropped from the 22.

Just as Jones, Duffy, D'Arcy will be competing for the dedicated FB spot, Earls, Fitzgerald and Bowe will be competing for the chance to deny them that spot.

Duffy maybe - but he has been out injured himself and Connacht's season is more or less over. Is D'Arcy even interested in playing for Ireland? Whatever about Earls competing for the fullback spot, Bowe won't. Why would you move our best winger to fullback? Luke will be lucky to hold onto his spot on the wing for Leinster, he certainly won't be claiming the fullback spot from Nacewa.

Kearney and Murphy will be busting balls to get back from injury.

Murphy is hoping to be back for the EP play-offs with Leicester, so he should be in contention. When is Kearney due back? And will he be getting gametime ahead of Nacewa at fullback?

It's fairly insane to write Luke's chances at FB off based on his "return from injury" games.

Obviously he will have to do a lot to turn around the damage done to his name after the 6N, but everyone competing for the position has an awful lot to prove over the next 6 months.

We're not writing him off, but Declan Kidney would be very foolish to expect some form to come from nowhere as Luke is very lucky to be getting a game ahead of McFaddan on the wing for Leinster at the moment.

Luke has the next couple of games for Leinster to prove himself, bearing in mind that all the others will need gametime in the warm up games to prove their fitness.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 9:25pm

totallegend wrote: »

For a minute there, I thought you were suggesting we would leave a Lions test player, grand slam ever-present, HC and ML winner at home and bring along a guy who has yet to make a SINGLE appearance in the HC.

Then I regathered my senses and realised that no-one would seriously suggest that. Phew.

Didn't know that Luke played fullback for the Lions. Hope it was better than his recent showings in the 6Ns in that position.

Jones won't be brought instead of Luke. Luke will be competing with Earls, Trimble, McFadden & Shane Horgan for a wing spot (Tommy Bowe will be going anyway).

Competition for the fullback spot will be Geordan Murphy, Rob Kearney, Keith Earls, Gavin Duffy & Felix Jones. Jones' chances will depend on how well Murphy & Kearney come back from injury, but if they are not playing by the end of the season.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 9:32pm

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald is an established winger coming back from injury who can't seem to find form as a winger at club level, let alone as a fullback at international level. Earls, Bowe & Trimble all had injuries coming into the 6Ns and all found form. Earls played better at fullback than Luke did in the one chance he got at fullback, even though Earls was coming back from injury himself and normally plays centre for club and wing for Ireland. Luke was dropped from the 22.

A year out from the game is an awfully long time. If you were expecting him to get back to full speed after that long you're asking far too much of the player. All of those players you've mentioned had incomparable layoffs.

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Duffy maybe - but he has been out injured himself and Connacht's season is more or less over. Is D'Arcy even interested in playing for Ireland? Whatever about Earls competing for the fullback spot, Bowe won't. Why would you move our best winger to fullback? Luke will be lucky to hold onto his spot on the wing for Leinster, he certainly won't be claiming the fullback spot from Nacewa.

All of the above remains to be seen, and is purely speculation. Earls will most certainly be competing for the FB spot as we have depth at 11 and not at 15. If Earls can prove to be completely assured in both 11 and 15 it will completely guarantee him a WC spot (pretty much a cert anyway though).

I don't like the idea of Bowe at FB, but it has been mentioned here plenty. I was only giving options.

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

Murphy is hoping to be back for the EP play-offs with Leicester, so he should be in contention. When is Kearney due back? And will he be getting gametime ahead of Nacewa at fullback?

Leinster have a lot of congestion with games coming up, there will be rotation expected and Nacewa has played an awful lot this season. Expect to see him rested and others given a shot.

Sin a bhfuil wrote: »

We're not writing him off, but Declan Kidney would be very foolish to expect some form to come from nowhere as Luke is very lucky to be getting a game ahead of McFaddan on the wing for Leinster at the moment.

Luke has the next couple of games for Leinster to prove himself, bearing in mind that all the others will need gametime in the warm up games to prove their fitness.

You completely wrote him off and that's why I questioned your post. Read what you wrote again. I said it was an insane statement and I stand by that.

There's an awful long time before the WC, knocking people's chances at this stage is fairly mind boggling.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 9:55pm

emmet02 wrote: »

A year out from the game is an awfully long time. If you were expecting him to get back to full speed after that long you're asking far too much of the player. All of those players you've mentioned had incomparable layoffs.

Earls has played 14 games for Munster this season. Luke Fitz has played 13 for Leinster. Earls was playing injured after the 6Ns last year and didn't travel with Ireland on the summer tour.

Murphy broke his leg and he is 33 years of age next week. Kearney had an op on his knee. Both serious injuries. What if they have as much difficulty finding form as Luke did?

All of the above remains to be seen, and is purely speculation. Earls will most certainly be competing for the FB spot as we have depth at 11 and not at 15. If Earls can prove to be completely assured in both 11 and 15 it will completely guarantee him a WC spot (pretty much a cert anyway though).

I don't like the idea of Bowe at FB, but it has been mentioned here plenty. I was only giving options.

On Earls' present form he will be going. But he isn't playing fullback and should really be regarded as backup. I think its interesting that Munster have left him at wing even - even putting Johne Murphy (a winger) in the centre instead of him.

Leinster have a lot of congestion with games coming up, there will be rotation expected and Nacewa has played an awful lot this season. Expect to see him rested and others given a shot.

It will be interesting to see if Luke is given a shot at fullback.

You completely wrote him off and that's why I questioned your post. Read what you wrote again. I said it was an insane statement and I stand by that.

There's an awful long time before the WC, knocking people's chances at this stage is fairly mind boggling.

I'm still writing Luke off as a fullback. He has a chance to go to the world cup as starting on the wing, or backup on the bench. His form will have to improve drastically though. It will be interesting to see if he will be starting for Leinster in the Heineken Cup semi. McFaddan at the moment should feel very hard done by.

profitius · 11-04-2011 10:21pm

totallegend wrote: »

For a minute there, I thought you were suggesting we would leave a Lions test player, grand slam ever-present, HC and ML winner at home and bring along a guy who has yet to make a SINGLE appearance in the HC.

Then I regathered my senses and realised that no-one would seriously suggest that. Phew.

I was suggesting we take the form fullback if he proves himself for the rest of the season. Up to you if you decide not to take that too seriously.

Some people really are closed minded. If a player is good enough hes good enough. Its that simple. Is Jones good enough? We've the rest of the season to find out. Is Fitz good enough? Definitely not on current form and I have to question how mentally strong he is too. If we ignore current form we should take Hayes (grand slam, double HEC and ML winning Lions capped player) to the world cup too...

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 10:26pm

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Also @Sin a Bhfuil, the differences between Earls' and Fitzgerald's injuries, and respective layoffs are incredible. Fitzgerald's injury affects mobility, speed and worst of all confidence. Earls' wasn't reportedly serious. They are not comparable.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 10:43pm

emmet02 wrote: »

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Jones (who lets not forget is coming back from 2 career threatening injuries) has played 6 games for Munster this season and looks way better at fullback than Luke Fitz. who has played double the number of games.

Lets wait and see if D'Arcy recovers from costing his team dearly against Northampton and/or if he intends staying in Ireland next season. D'Arcy has a better chance than Luke as at least he will be the starting fullback for Ulster.

I don't think Fitz, Kearney (because of Nacewa/injury) or Murphy because of his injury have much chance of getting a decent run at fullback before the end of the season.

Hoping that Luke, Kearney & Murphy will somehow come good before the end of the season wouldn't be the brightest thing to do either.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 10:44pm

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 11-04-2011 10:57pm

emmet02 wrote: »

Christ.

Even though you're presenting some ridiculous reasoning.

Jones has played 6 games for Munster this season. Yes he has done well. Hopefully he can continue to do so, if he can keep the form up, he has an excellent chance at the 15 jersey given how stretched we are with injuries.

But the Form Fullback in Ireland is Adam D'Arcy, not Felix Jones.

The fact of the matter is that anyone who can put together a good run of performances will be able to challenge for the 15 jersey.

Writing off anyone at this stage is tantamount to blindness.

Also @Sin a Bhfuil, the differences between Earls' and Fitzgerald's injuries, and respective layoffs are incredible. Fitzgerald's injury affects mobility, speed and worst of all confidence. Earls' wasn't reportedly serious. They are not comparable.

Jones has missed the last 2 years with much more serious injuries than Fitz had, yet he has hit the ground running. POC was back at his best after ~5 games after being out for a year. Flannery has played little to no rugby in the last 2 years, yet his 25mins vs. Ulster were still the best by any Irish hooker this season. (I know that they are all Munster players, but they are the best examples)

Fitz. has been making very basic errors that are nothing down to the injury itself; he is overrunning passes, knocking on the ball etc. He is very low on confidence and shouldn't be playing at this level at present.

He should have been sent down to AIL level for a few games to gain confidence then reintroduced to Leinster through the A team. He wasn't ready for international rugby, but he was the one that was confident/cocky enough to fancy himself as a 15.

I can fully understand you defending him though, I would do the same for Earls/Murray or any of the youngsters coming through in Munster.

Cpt_Blackbeard · 11-04-2011 11:02pm

emmet02 wrote: »

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

Much of the hype surrounding him is from the performances at Ireland A level.

The hype is there, as it is well known that he is a talent and we are extremely weak at 15 unless Schmidt can work his magic on Kearney. He also has a great chance (provided he takes his chance) of not only making the squad but, making the starting 15 for the big matches.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 11:08pm

I'm actually not defending Luke. I think he was thrown in at the deep end when he was nowhere near ready, as did half if not more of the forum!

I'm saying that with 6 months to go, that 15 jersey is one of the most if not the most "up for grabs" jersey going in the Ireland squad.

I'm also saying that judging players on 5/6 games with 6 months to go until the squad plays is fairly premature.

I'm including in this prematurity the OTT reaction to Jones' decent return. The OTT reaction to Fitz not falling straight back into World Beating form, and this seemingly insane blindspot that some posters have for the two FBs whom both have had more gametime than the other two suggestions put together this season which are Duffy (who's been fantastic by all accounts) and D'Arcy (who I'd assume's only encounter with many of you was the vision of his failing at the weekend).

In essence, tone it down on the Jones for the World Cup banners, don't order the Jones 15 jerseys just yet. There's a long long way to go yet, and there are plenty of players willing to compete for that 15 slot.

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 11:13pm

emmet02 wrote: »

Why is it "Let's Wait" for other players but
"Plump" for Jones?

This is bizarre.

I haven't just 'plumped' for Jones. Right now he has a better chance of getting time at fullback because he (along with D'Arcy) are the only two who are actually playing fullback at the moment.

Its a 'wait & see' for the rest to see if they actually recover from their injuries, recover form, get gametime in the fullback position in the next 6 weeks or so before the end of the season.

emmet02 · 11-04-2011 11:16pm

I'm out. It is pointless trying to have rational debate on here.

To Clarify

I find it utterly bizarre that we are saying that Jones, with 6 performances under his belt, is trusted to remain on an upward schedule until the WC.

While

We must wait and see if D'Arcy will "regain form" after one costly mistake in a HEC. (though he has been excellent all season)
We see if Duffy can remain steady as a rock after his short layoff

We're not having a debate on an equal footing here. For some people it's unfortunately "My Players" vs "The Rest".

Sin a bhfuil · 11-04-2011 11:27pm

emmet02 wrote: »

I'm out. It is pointless trying to have rational debate on here.

Fair enough - sorry if you don't get my rational.

PhatPiggins · 11-04-2011 11:45pm

My brain hurts. What's this thread about?

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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