Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Premium rate text - 57052

245

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    jor el wrote: »
    Why? OP didn't read the terms of what they were entering, and signed up to a subscription service. How does one's own laziness translate to the operator being sneaky feckers?

    I'm no fan of these premium services, but if you can't be bothered to read what you're subscribing to, then it's tough titty.

    I absolutely do not agree with you on that one.

    This seems to happen way too often to unsuspecting consumers and I don't think it's 'tough titty' nor do I think the OP was 'lazy'.

    The operator should be required to make a CLEAR verbal announcement saying accompanied by an on screen message in a large font saying : "This is a subscription service. We will debit XX.XX Euro from your mobile phone account or add it to your bill every week/month if you subscribe to this service"

    Instead, they display a little message on the screen which is difficult to read and very unclear.

    I think the regulation of premium text messaging services in Ireland is still completely consumer-unfriendly and needs to be tightened up significantly.

    Something is seriously wrong when lots of people are ending up in this situation without being aware that they subscribed to a service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭NewHillel


    jor el wrote: »
    Why? OP didn't read the terms of what they were entering, and signed up to a subscription service. How does one's own laziness translate to the operator being sneaky feckers?

    I'm no fan of these premium services, but if you can't be bothered to read what you're subscribing to, then it's tough titty.

    Suggesting laziness is quite a leap. Where does the 'Comment on the post not the poster', come in?

    Not only are the T&C's made as inconspicuous as possible, many of the ads are targeted at children. My daughter signed up, and the only way we stopped the 'subscription' was by changing her number. The ad was in a tonnage mag and the conditions were tiny. (Admittedly that was a few years ago and hat element may have changed.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭compsys


    NewHillel wrote: »
    Suggesting laziness is quite a leap. Where does the 'Comment on the post not the poster', come in?

    Not only are the T&C's made as inconspicuous as possible, many of the ads are targeted at children. My daughter signed up, and the only way we stopped the 'subscription' was by changing her number. The ad was in a tonnage mag and the conditions were tiny. (Admittedly that was a few years ago and hat element may have changed.)

    If you read most of jor el's posts you'll find this type of comment quite common for him. He always seems to take the side of the business. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that the customer is always right but for him to imply that I'm lazy was unwarranted I think.

    Anyway, I'm glad Comreg seemed to agree with what I was saying!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    compsys wrote: »
    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that the customer is always right but for him to imply that I'm lazy was unwarranted I think.

    You might want to start with reading your own posts first. Your opening post states that you "vaguely remember entering a TV3 X-Factor competition", and that you knew there were T&Cs attached to it. So you willingly entered a premium rate competition, that you knew had T&Cs, yet you didn't check out what might be in those. How would you describe such inaction by yourself?

    If you read my post anyway you'd see I was quoting another poster that called the companies "sneaky feckers", without actually following that up with any fact or backing. One party's unwillingness to read the T&Cs they were clearly aware of does not make the other party sneaky for having those T&Cs.
    compsys wrote: »
    Anyway, I'm glad Comreg seemed to agree with what I was saying!

    Did you even read the article you linked to? Where does it state that Comreg agree with you? It says quite clearly that Comreg received complaints, and that it was not going to discuss the detail of those complaints or the outcome. It mentions nothing about the complaints being upheld, or any sanctions or warnings being given to the companies in question. It also makes no mention of lack of clarity in their advertising.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    jor el wrote: »
    Did you even read the article you linked to?

    Sure why woud he/she, they're clearly laz...

    Too easy? :p


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Posters - that's enough back and forth. Stick to the OT.

    dudara


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    jor el wrote: »
    You might want to start with reading your own posts first. Your opening post states that you "vaguely remember entering a TV3 X-Factor competition", and that you knew there were T&Cs attached to it. So you willingly entered a premium rate competition, that you knew had T&Cs, yet you didn't check out what might be in those. How would you describe such inaction by yourself?
    You're probably right on a technicality. But that doesn't mean it's fair.
    The idea of these premium text services is that they are convenient to enter, and hence people sign up quite easily, without necessarily knowing the exact t and c's. If everyone was supposed to go off and read the fine print online/wherever, who would be bothered?
    Saying "it's all there in fine print" isn't good enough. People should be given a clear warning of what and how often they will be charged when signing up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    cast_iron wrote: »
    Saying "it's all there in fine print" isn't good enough. People should be given a clear warning of what and how often they will be charged when signing up.

    I simply don't accept that. Terms and Conditions Apply is a standard warning used on just about every product or service we buy and use. It is there to let you know that there is more to what you're signing up to than is initially obvious. Adults should not need any more hand holding over such a simple thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    jor el wrote: »
    I simply don't accept that. Terms and Conditions Apply is a standard warning used on just about every product or service we buy and use. It is there to let you know that there is more to what you're signing up to than is initially obvious. Adults should not need any more hand holding over such a simple thing.
    Yes. And most services you sign up for are pretty transparent about what you get, and the small sticky fine print are for the rarer cases of use.

    However, there is an obligation on companies to provide clear information as to what the product will cost.
    A bank can't sign you up for a loan and just say "read the 10 pages of terms and conditions since you're an adult". They are obliged to tell you what the entire cost will be and what may affect changes in the money owed.

    According to your argument, they should not have to do this since we are all adults?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭compsys


    jor el wrote: »
    You might want to start with reading your own posts first. Your opening post states that you "vaguely remember entering a TV3 X-Factor competition", and that you knew there were T&Cs attached to it. So you willingly entered a premium rate competition, that you knew had T&Cs, yet you didn't check out what might be in those. How would you describe such inaction by yourself?

    My post says the following:

    I do vaguely remember entering a TV3 X-Factor competition (on Nov 20th) to 50150 a while back but thought it was just one premium rate text for €2 approx as this is what was mentioned clearly on the screen. Could the sneaky terms and conditions have also signed me up for something else? The ad for the comp only flashed up for around 15 seconds so if they put the T&Cs about signing up for a premium rate service on to the end of the ad in small writing then I think that's a disgrace.

    Just because I 'vaguely' remember doing something why does that suggest that I'm lazy? What do you know about me or my life that makes you think you can insult me, or anyone else, by calling me lazy? I think you should stick to the facts and the topic. If you don't agree with my point that's OK. But please don't be rude.

    Also, my post never said I expressly knew that there were T&Cs. As I said, the ad only flashed up for about 15 seconds so I didn't see/read any T&Cs. I stated that I sent a text to the relevant number and 'thought it was just one premium rate text for €2 approx as this is what was mentioned clearly on the screen'.

    So it's totally incorrect for you to imply that I knew full well that there were loads of T&Cs attached to the competition and that I was simply just too lazy to read them and wasn't bothered.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭BurnsCarpenter


    I had a Prize Club pop-up on youtube yesterday trying to give the impression it was an official user survey (same style and font as youtube). Have seen similar on facebook.

    Terms and conditions in place of course (having completed the "survey"), but typical of the misleading practice that goes on. "Sneaky feckers" seems a reasonable assessment to me.

    I'm all for personal responsibility but I don't think having terms and conditions on display should amount to a free pass for this kind of deception.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    I don't really see why we are having these kinds of problems with these services. The first thing you learn about contract law is that both parties must actually be aware of the existence of a contract before they can enter into it. If the customer doesn't know that the contract exists then how can they have signed up to it?

    Imagine if you went to your supermarket and paid for your groceries with your laser card and they had a sign saying "Terms and Conditions Apply" and some minute sign under the counter explaining that it was a subscription service that entered you into a raffle each week.

    Now imagine a few weeks later, you discover the supermarket has taken a tenner out of your current account every week.

    You'd be fuming mad and getting onto your bank seeking immediate charge backs! It'd be all over the papers if it was happening to lots of people and you can be sure it would be investigated.

    I don't see why a different standard applies to premium text services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,113 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Its not really a tiny sign though. I've seen them clearly plenty of times and my eyesight isn't perfect.

    Its not as big as the headline banner, but thats not the point. Using your tesco analogy, they often have "BUY ONE GET ONE FREE" or "50% off" headlines everywhere, but its only when you check it, you'll find out the small range of goods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭compsys


    Dodge wrote: »
    Its not really a tiny sign though. I've seen them clearly plenty of times and my eyesight isn't perfect.

    Its not as big as the headline banner, but thats not the point. Using your tesco analogy, they often have "BUY ONE GET ONE FREE" or "50% off" headlines everywhere, but its only when you check it, you'll find out the small range of goods.

    It's hardly a huge sign either though Dodge.

    Any terms and conditions should always be appropriate to the median through which the product or 'service' is offered.

    If you're watching TV on your couch, usually around 3/4 foot away from the TV, and an ad comes on for only 15 seconds, and in tiny writing at the bottom of the screen there's a list of T&Cs that you can barely see, I don't personally think that's fair or appropriate. Sure you spend the whole ad looking at the question and writing down the number.

    I mean, why not have a very quick but clear voice over on the ad saying something like: Terms and conditions apply. If you enter this competition you'll also be signed up for a premium rate text competition service?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Frankie Teardrop


    Just found out that I've been scammed by this too.

    To confirm I have not signed up to any ad that I'm aware of, does anyone know of any other method they are using to get subscriptions, something sneaky in an iPhone app maybe?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    No you dont have to sign up for these services that take money from you, the scammers can do what they want in this country as long as they share the booty with certain network providers. comreg turn a blind eye most of the time anyway.
    Ask your network provider to supply you with the call logs for the alleged sign up process, after all they are the ones that are taking your money and passing some of it on to THEIR associates.
    If they cannot or will not provide an accurate and verifiable paper trail of the opt in process it is then their problem not yours , report them for fraud or theft on you account.
    I spent almost a year dealing with one network that took money from a recently deceased persons account on the basis that they opted in for a service , they even went as far as to supply altered and false documents to try to get out of it.
    Some very Nasty people in that business.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Frankie Teardrop


    ok, so rather than spend a whole lot of time chasing this down I'm going to leave it...so yes the scammers have won this time.
    d


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    Leave it if you want , but if everyone adopts the same attitute these scammers and the mobile networks are the winners , I took this shower of scum on on a matter of principle , yes it took time and effort but in the end I did recieve a cheque from them and an apology from the CEO of the network here.
    All the evidence they had of the alleged opt-in was totally false.
    So if you are 100% sure that neither you or somebody belonging to you did not opt in to the scam, go for it.
    If you are not, dont bother.they will make a fool out of you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18 Frankie Teardrop


    hmmm...
    it costs 15 euro for a small claim, I'll check with 02 and find out how much I've been charged so far...I'll post what ever I do here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 180 ✭✭doleman2010


    Very interesting that you should mention the name of that network provider , you may find that they will not be inclined to be of any help to you.
    If you can prove that you did NOT opt in for the sevice I wouldnt bother with the small claims court , you may be better off going to the Gardai and let them deal with them.


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    http://www.prizeclub.ie/howtoplay.php

    Not the worst of them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    http://www.phonesmart.ie/

    try this crowd before the Small Claims Court, it will take time to get these issues sorted but as long as you keep emailing the regulator whenever the company don't respond to requests for information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    Like many others in this thread I received no text, although my Meteor bill says "SMS from 57052". No text was ever received by me, never mind 10 texts.

    If the benighted idiots and apologists in this thread for this scam could stop telling people otherwise that would be appreciated.

    I'll find out this evening the name of the parasite who owns Prizeclub.ie and report to ComReg.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    So, the scams of this Prizeclub.ie and its many incarnations have been making quite a storm online. Over here is a good thread about them. Also read here, here and here.

    I rang Meteor and told them what happened and the guy said that he had heard many stories about them already. He told me that a company currently named Inkred was behind the number 57052.

    With the name Inkred, I decided to work on the useful suggestion of this poster and go to the Companies Registration Office (CRO) and find out the names of the people behind this scam. It cost me €2.50 for this information, but it's worth it.

    The current name of the company behind Prizeclub.ie is 'Inkred Interactive Limited'. Its current registered office is:

    Unit 1,
    Courtyard Business Centre,
    Orchard Lane,
    Blackrock,
    Co. Dublin,
    Ireland.

    The directors of this company are:

    1) <snip>
    Other directorships:
    Amazon Innovations Ltd
    Com 1 Telecommunications Limited

    Other current directorships:
    Globetrack Technology Limited
    I.V.T. Solutions (UK) Limited
    Mandano Holdings Limited
    Modeva Interactive
    Modeva Media
    Modeva Networks
    Modeva Social Networks
    Monarca Limited
    Rayo Unlimited
    Rock Information Limited
    Votel (U.K.) Limited


    2) <snip>
    Other directorships:
    Amazon Innovations Ltd
    Betto Limited

    Other current directorships:
    Com 1 Telecommunications Limited
    Globetrack Technology Limited
    I.V.T. Solutions (UK) Limited
    Mandano Holdings Limited
    Modeva Interactive
    Modeva Media
    Modeva Networks
    Modeva Social Networks
    Monarca Limited
    Rayo Unlimited
    Rock Information Limited
    Votel (U.K.) Limited


    3) <snip>
    Other directorships:
    Amazon Innovations Ltd
    Com 1 Telecommunications Limited

    Other current directorships:
    Globetrack Technology Limited
    I.V.T. Solutions (UK) Limited
    Mandano Holdings Limited
    Modeva Interactive
    Modeva Media
    Modeva Networks
    Modeva Social Networks
    Monarca Limited
    National Pension & Savings Company Limited
    Netbury Limited
    Phone Paid Services Limited
    Rayo Unlimited
    Rock Information Limited
    St Annes Northbrook Management Limited
    Votel (U.K.) Limited


    They have all built quite a name around the 'Modeva' scams. Here's an article from 2004 about these three buckos: Call providers are dialling up big profits

    There are other companies connected with these three individuals. It seems like Britain has also been graced by their presence. Also, not a word about 'Budget Telecom' in the above CRO listings. However, The Sunday Tribune has these three buckos down as connected with it back in 2000: Your Number's Up

    There is much more to these three individuals. Please add your knowledge here, and let others know about them and whatever scam of theirs you've been affected by.

    Oh how I long for the time when investigative journalism had a role to play in the Irish media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Dates of Birth and Home addresses removed. Please do not post that information on Boards.

    dudara


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    dudara wrote: »
    Dates of Birth and Home addresses removed. Please do not post that information on Boards.

    dudara
    What about their names? All the information is available to the public, though I do agree DOBs and addresses are a bit much.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    I had actually deleted the DOBs and home addresses. But an Admin was actually editing the thread at the same time as me, and they removed the names also.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭cast_iron


    Ok thanks. What's the logic of not naming them? Any member of the public can access this information.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Dostoevsky


    All of the information I posted is in the public domain. I paid €2.50 to buy it from the Companies Registration Office of the Irish state. It is all relevant, including their dates of birth so that they are not confused with similarly-named individuals.

    Why was any of it deleted?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Yes - it is in the public domain, and anyone who wishes to access it can do so. However, we do not publish the home addresses and personal details of ANY individual on Boards.

    The deletion of this data is consistent with the approach we have taken in previous, similar cases.

    In short, if you want the information, get it yourselves.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement