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Must we Irish say "mom"?

2

Comments

  • #32
    XxMCRxBabyxX
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭XxMCRxBabyxX


    Why does it matter to you? Apparently, having moved to Ireland from Botswana, I used to say "mom" and ended up being bullied over it. I still don't understand why the pronunciation was such a big deal to them and now apparently even the "grown ups" have a problem with it.

    I was never allowed call my mum "ma" or "mammy" and everyone else said mum so it was always that for me (or mom apparently).


  • #33
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    When I was in school, the children with English parent/s (myself included) used Mum and Dad, the ones with Irish parents used Mammy or Mam and Dad/dy. In my part of the country, Ma and Da were reasonably unusual to my memory (Waterford county, not city). The only people I remember using it offhand was some that had moved down from Dublin.

    Don't recall anyone using Mom at all, and it's still not something I'd hear ..hm, at all in my age-group at least.

    Although my partner from the south-west of Ireland uses Mom and it seems to be pretty usual there.


  • #34
    Type 17
    Registered Users Posts: 2,730 ✭✭✭Type 17


    Whatever about the origins of Mom, Mam, Mum, etc, two horrible (IMO) Americanisms that I have noticed creeping into Hiberno (and Anglo) English are:

    I had just gotten home...

    He was outside of the house when we got there.


  • #35
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    "To be perfectly honest if more people knew this there wouldn't be so much complaining and this thread wouldn't have happened. "

    I do not agree. I started the thread because I was hearing so much (especially on the radio) use of American-style "mom" replacing "mam" or "mum" or "ma" which are the accepted Hiberno-english words.

    We are developing a hideous mid-atlantic way of speaking which suggests to me a national inferiority complex. Another example is the use of "man" in expressions such as "Man, I'm tired" where we would previously have said "God, I'm tired" or "jayzus I'm tired." It is not a religious thing. It is pure Americanisation.

    You're totally wrong. My mother was born in the 1940s west clare and she always called her parents mom and dad.


  • #36
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭screamer


    I prefer mom to ma (like a sheep).
    TBH the only way I object to a child referring to their mother is by calling her by her first name. Now that is awful.


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  • #37
    Boulevardier
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭Boulevardier


    I am amazed that "mom" was used in 1940's Clare. My dad grew up there and then, and I never heard him use it, though admittedly his mother died when he was young.


  • #38
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    I've heard that 'mom' is very much a 'direct from Irish' thing, especially in gaeilgoir regions (and boy do they go on and on about it - interestingly, while the ire of those I have spoken to about this is reserved for people who say 'mum', 'mam' is fine, despite being very common in the north of England) but I'm curious as to how it gets 'directly' translated.

    Specifically, is the Irish not normally preceded by an a, do, mo, etc? So the pronunciation would nearly always be 'wom-ee'? Is it not strange that the direct translation ignores the w sound?


  • #39
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    You wouldn't say, "my mum (heh), come here", it's "mum, come here" and the same goes for Irish: "Mamaí/Mam, gabh i leith.


  • #40
    Bosco13
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Bosco13


    Just moved here from the north a few months ago and my cousin talks like an American.
    She calls petrol gas and trousers pants.
    Does everybody down here do this?


  • #41
    Laphroaig52
    Registered Users Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭Laphroaig52


    Boulevardier wrote: »
    I am not at all pleased by the recent upsurge

    Even if it has caught on among the populace, it does not follow that the media (such as RTE) should amplify or legitimise its use.

    Why not?
    It's not the role of the media to dictate or even endorse any vernacular.
    Rather, it should reflect every day speech and dialect.....

    I don't like 'Mom' any more than you do but if that's what the cool kids are saying, so be it.

    Languages evolve and they way we speak is influenced by external sources. Given their exposure to American TV, it would be strange if younger people didn't pick up some of it.

    All that being said, didn't the American singer Al Jolson sing about his 'Mammy'?
    I heard she's making a come back.


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  • #42
    Thephantomsmask
    Registered Users Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Thephantomsmask


    It's mostly mom in Kerry, I'm in my thirties and we all said it long before the influx of American TV shows. My mother, aunts and uncles always called my grandmother mom even in the early Eighties. As others have said, in Munster Irish, moh-mie is the pronunciation. It was anglicised to mom.


  • #43
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    You wouldn't say, "my mum (heh), come here", it's "mum, come here" and the same goes for Irish: "Mamaí/Mam, gabh i leith.

    Ah, okay (my Irish isn't the best). I always thought, if you were addressing somebody, you would say 'a Phadraig' or 'a Mhamaí'. Would that be wrong? Or old-fashioned?


  • #44
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    Ah, okay (my Irish isn't the best). I always thought, if you were addressing somebody, you would say 'a Phadraig' or 'a Mhamaí'. Would that be wrong? Or old-fashioned?
    Very formal. You'd put that in a letter but you'd never speak it.


  • #45
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    Very formal. You'd put that in a letter but you'd never speak it.
    That's how it always sounded like to me in Ros na Run (or maybe some other tv show but I saw ros na run the most), 'ach, a mham' or a dhaid (not sure about the i in there). I found a video of a ros na run scene with Maire and Paedar where they constantly use it (vocative) while talking to each other, I can find it again if needed


  • #46
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    riffmongous wrote: »
    That's how it always sounded like to me in Ros na Run (or maybe some other tv show but I saw ros na run the most), 'ach, a mham' or a dhaid (not sure about the i in there). I found a video of a ros na run scene with Maire and Paedar where they constantly use it (vocative) while talking to each other, I can find it again if needed

    Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. When I took an Irish class (a while ago now, so maybe things have changed) I am nearly sure that I was always referred to as (for example) 'A Phadraig', but maybe (as a previous poster said) that's formal (which would possibly make sense in a classroom setting - although it was a very, very relaxed class).


  • #47
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,624 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. When I took an Irish class (a while ago now, so maybe things have changed) I am nearly sure that I was always referred to as (for example) 'A Phadraig', but maybe (as a previous poster said) that's formal (which would possibly make sense in a classroom setting - although it was a very, very relaxed class).
    Do you know what dialect of Irish it was you were taught? Could be related to that? I know the vocative case is common in other languages, like slavic ones, but maybe it's dropping out of use in Irish due to english influence.


  • #48
    Rabo Karabekian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 275 ✭✭Rabo Karabekian


    riffmongous wrote: »
    Do you know what dialect of Irish it was you were taught? Could be related to that? I know the vocative case is common in other languages, like slavic ones, but maybe it's dropping out of use in Irish due to english influence.

    I don't really remember, I last did Irish properly in school, is there a 'standard' dialect that they use?

    The thing is, in any of the books that I used after school (and just looking at an up-to-date one right now) and on 'aspirations and eclipses' it says:
    "in the vocative case - both singular and plural, eg:
    A Sheáin, tar anseo!"

    But as you say, maybe that's more formal (like a previous poster suggested) and in actual Irish speak, it's being dropped because of English. Which is ironic in the context of this thread, as that's what a lot of people's ire is directed when people use terms like 'mum'.


  • #49
    KaiLee
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭KaiLee


    I know this is an old post I just came upon it but MOM is as Irish as it gets as an native Irish speaker I say Mom as do my children because in Irish the word is Mamaí pronounced MOM-EE . Leave history in the past and get with the lingo without hatred.
    on depending on what side of the country you come from some use Ma and Mam etc... Dialects, there are many and accents. All us Irish don't sound the same so don't rush to such a harsh conclusion as banning words and bringing up British rule in the mix.


  • #50
    Creol1
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    I don't mind the word itself or regard it as intrinsically American; what bugs me is the spelling; on this side of the Atlantic it's "Mum", and that's how I've always spelt it.
    Rabo Karabekian wrote: »
    I don't really remember, I last did Irish properly in school, is there a 'standard' dialect that they use?

    I know this was posted almost two years ago so I'm guessing Rabo Karabekian isn't sitting on the edge of his seat waiting for an answer, but the Munster dialect is the nearest there is to a standard dialect and is the dialect used in textbooks.


  • #51
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    Lots of people in Galway say mom and have done for decades


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  • #52
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    Lots of people in Galway say mom and have done for decades

    For centuries / millennia.


  • #53
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Creol1 wrote: »
    I don't mind the word itself or regard it as intrinsically American; what bugs me is the spelling; on this side of the Atlantic it's "Mum", and that's how I've always spelt it.



    I know this was posted almost two years ago so I'm guessing Rabo Karabekian isn't sitting on the edge of his seat waiting for an answer, but the Munster dialect is the nearest there is to a standard dialect and is the dialect used in textbooks.

    Text books in schools in Munster are in Munster dialect, ditto. text books in Ulster and Connaught. So if you're in Munster then yes, text books are principally in Munster Irish.

    Text books in Leinster are in more middle ground as to dialects, admittedly probably closest to Connaught Irish, but this is debatable. Certainly not in Munster Irish per se.

    The official standard allows for many forms, grammar and vocabulary from all dialects but since 2016 has not permitted the compound verb structures most common in Munster Irish. Where Munster dialect has different gender to other two dialects, e.g. gaineamh, the standard tends to favour the other two dialects.

    Either way "mam" in Irish would be pronounced "mom" as per English pronunciation in all dialects, as per abair.ie / teanglann.ie pronunciation tool.

    Re spelling mom "mum", that's surely a bit like arguing that ma should be spelt "mammy" or mama "mum"; they're all different words and should be spelt differently.


  • #54
    Colliewollie
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Colliewollie


    I'm 31, from Co. Kerry and have said the word 'mom' all my life.. The others are not common around my neck of the woods. I'm from the country as well, not an urbanite.. Hate the sound of 'mum' being honest!!


  • #55
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Colliewollie wrote: »
    I'm 31, from Co. Kerry and have said the word 'mom' all my life.. The others are not common around my neck of the woods. I'm from the country as well, not an urbanite.. Hate the sound of 'mum' being honest!!

    Agreed. Mom is a much nicer word. Mum, mummy just sounds so Tory party, 1950s famous five, biggles, Rupert the bear British


  • #56
    Creol1
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Text books in schools in Munster are in Munster dialect, ditto. text books in Ulster and Connaught. So if you're in Munster then yes, text books are principally in Munster Irish.

    News to me, I have to say.
    ezra_pound wrote: »
    Re spelling mom "mum", that's surely a bit like arguing that ma should be spelt "mammy" or mama "mum"; they're all different words and should be spelt differently.

    "Mom" and "mum" are pronounced the same way and hence, without wishing to split hairs, I would classify them as different spellings rather than different words.


  • #57
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Mum or mam here.


  • #58
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    Creol1 wrote: »
    News to me, I have to say.



    "Mom" and "mum" are pronounced the same way and hence, without wishing to split hairs, I would classify them as different spellings rather than different words.

    The whole premise of this thread is that they are not pronounced the same way!


  • #59
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    Creol1 wrote: »
    News to me, I have to say.



    "Mom" and "mum" are pronounced the same way and hence, without wishing to split hairs, I would classify them as different spellings rather than different words.

    Pronounced the same way? Go back to primary school bub / bob


  • #60
    Creol1
    Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    Pronounced the same way? Go back to primary school bub / bob

    If you view me as mistaken, you are welcome to explain why, but your rudeness is unwarranted, particularly in a serious section such as this.

    Your comment has been reported.


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  • #61
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,042 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Mod: keep it civil please folks, no need for techy.


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