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The super duper retro gaming review thread
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Retr0gamer wrote: »Did a DS retrospective. Took me all day to write
http://lifein16bit.blogspot.ie/2013/03/nintendo-ds-retrospective.html
Must binge on some Dr Bob videos at the weekend.
Pretty boss retrospective Retro, very nice
I've done up my own Nintendo 64 retrospective, found here http://burkeyoh.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/the-days-of-the-nintendo-64-feature-2013/
Actually it's less a retrospective, more me slating the games I own and getting the facts wrong :cool:0 -
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I think you're a little too kind on the N64 there. The PS1 is a far better console in terms of library, it's not even close. As for N64 games having aged better, I don't think you are playing the same games as I am.
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If you are counting Die Hard Trilogy as one of the best PS1 games you haven't played enough PS1 games. Time has not been kind to that one.
Resident Evil 1 and 3 terribly aged? Not in most peoples opinions.
DK64 was never a good game either, it's a horrible collectathon.
What about all the RPGs on the PS1, what has the N64 got in comparison Quest 64 and Hybrid Heaven? Up against the FF games, Suikoden 2, Grandia etc.
Shmups? Einhander, Soukyugurentai, G-Darius etc. up against Star Soldier 64.
Ocarina of Time better than any adventure game on the PS1? Megaman Legends 2 is as good as if not better.
Rare's games weren't really that good either. Banjo Kazooie and Jet Force Gemini were great and Blast Corp was sublime but everything else was not great or aged badly.
As for Perfect Dark and Goldeneye, they have aged badly and I think Medal of Honour trumped them in single player.
From the games you mentioned I don't think you have much experience with the PS1 which means you have a biased view which is understandable. While the N64 is a great console with great games as o1s1n said you'd be hard pressed to pick out 20 classics that haven't aged poorly.
The PS1 on the other hand has such a massive library of games with loads of classics.
It's a much more interesting console as well since with the N64 anything good on it is well known whereas you have a tonne of excellent fairly obscure games like Gamera, Bushido Blade, Silent Bomber, Vandal Hearts, Alundra (another contender for a zelda beater), Rollcage, LSD, Tail Concerto, I could go on all day.
I just think that if you know your games on both systems there really is no comparison.
I feel bad disagreeing with your write up but I'm not attacking you. I just think you should get a chipped PS1 because there seems to be a lot of games on it to experience that you would love.
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Retr0gamer wrote: »
I feel bad disagreeing with your write up but I'm not attacking you. I just think you should get a shipped PS1 because there seems to be a lot of games on it to experience that you would love.
Likewise, hope I didn't come across as being bitchy. It's just the PS1 is amazing on so many levels that it's hard to contain myself
We haven't even mentioned the almightyness that is LSD 0 -
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Well from the games you listed it does seem you haven't played a lot of PS1 games. Saying the PS1 only has the FF games when it comes to RPGs is very showing. I think FF7-9 are fantastic however the competition on the console is so good that they wouldn't even be close to the best. Suikoden 2, Grandia, Valkyrie Profile, Breath of Fire 4, Lunar 2 are all far better. I'd put Parasite Eve in there as well, a great game and much better than the crappy sequel that played more like Resident Evil. If you did like strategy RPGs then there's loads on the PS1 with FF Tactics being one of the finest ever made.
It's not just RPGs though. The Megaman Legends games play like Ocarina of Time, the first one actually predates it and most of the innovations Ocarina is praised with appeared here first.
There's also stuff that's hard to categories like LSD, Parappa the Rapper, Tall Unlimited, Devil Dice, Incredible Crisis. The best thing about the PS1 was the low barrier of entry price wish for developers which meant you got some much crazy inventive stuff on the system.
If you think the PS1 only has FF7-9, MGS and SOTN then you really just don't know much about the PS1's library.
I'd be hard pressed to name 20 N64 games that are still playable. On the PS1 though I could easily blow well past 100. Also only 30 top games on the SNES? I beg to differ by a huge margin.
I don't disagree too much with your opinions of the games you mention, there's a few but it's personal opinion, it's just I can't agree with you at all about your assessment of the PS1 since I feel you don't know it well enough to make an informed opinion like you have with the games you have played.
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I'd agree with you there on Mario 64. Not the two others. The Spyro games , the Crash games and Ape Escape are better.
Well we will have to agree to disagree. To be fair, Ape Escape are games I know little about. I hear good things too actually, so will have to check them out
Not better than Wipeout 2097. And you know what? That's the great thing about the ps1, a little thing called choice. Somewhere which is completely lacking with the n64.
Well, almost right - there is choice, but when the choice is F-Zero X or Extreme-G 1 and 2 and ****ing Aero Gauge, there might not as well not be one! But I disagree that Wipeout 2097 is better. If anything, I was disappointed with that game
Still one of the most overrated games of all time if you ask me. I'd rather play Alundra or SOTN.
When people mention that Ocarina of Time is vastly overrated, I think they do it with justification, having seen it been snowed under with praise since its release. But having played the N64 original, and even borrowed the 3DS that changed little but the graphics, I think it's infinitely playable still, not far behind LTTP (the best game there's even been). Overrated? I suppose anything is, after 15 years of near universal praise
I didn't forget to mention Alundra. I picked it up, having been told that it was a low-key Zelda beater. It was nothing of the sort. I haven't got the 2nd one, don't know what that's like. Still, it does indeed represent an underground crop of games that the Nintendo 64 mostly lacks
Well, I probably should have said 3D Action Adventure for Ocarina of Time, but even to compare the two directly, I'd place Ocarina of Time above SOTN. But SOTN is marvelous
Both now play like absolute crap at 5 fps and plenty of vaseline-o-vision. Have you played Quake 2 or Alien Resurrection on the PS1? Notice the use of dual analog stick controls?
Dual analog would have been ideal for the shooters, but they play just fine. The framerate is just something that must be coped with, which is unfortunate. But the gameplay is strong enough still. It's just a shame that the Goldeneye multiplayer was really an afterthought. People love the Perfect Dark XBLA rerelease even offline, which only gives a mild reskin of the graphics and obviously improves the framerate.
Rival Schools on the PS1 is better than all the above.
And I don't know why you mention Mortal Kombat games seeing as the PS1 has Mortal Kombat Trilogy and Mortal Kombat 4.
It also has a little port called Street Fighter Alpha 3.
I couldn't tell you much about 2D Fighters other than I didn't think the PS1 had Mortal Kombat 4
Again, the highest rated ps1 games are things like Metal Gear Solid, Silent Hill, Resident Evil 2, Suikoden 2, Future Cop LAPD, Devil Dice, Kurushi, Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX, Soul Reaver, Castlevania SOTN, Gran Turismo...most of which I'd take over any N64 game.
Silent Hill, now there's a game that I forgot to mention. How has that aged? Suikoden 2 is a game that intrigues me, must pikey a copy and play it. Devil Dice :L Soul Reaver :L SOTN is excellent as mentioned. Would you really still play the early Gran Turismos?
On a side note, did the n64 get any decent arcade ports? Nope, not really. Check out the amount of ports for the ps1. You'd spend a lifetime playing
them.
Of course it did - Bust-A-Move!
And don't get me started on the controller! :pac:
The Hori Pad is magnificent though. And the C-buttons ain't that badRetr0gamer wrote: »If you are counting Die Hard Trilogy as one of the best PS1 games you haven't played enough PS1 games. Time has not been kind to that one.
I didn't count it as one of the best games, I mentioned it as a game that I did like (and one that everyone seemed to love back in the day). Hearing that it's aged horribly doesn't surprise me - the same happened to other popular games of the time like Tomb Raider
Resident Evil 1 and 3 terribly aged? Not in most peoples opinions.
1 certainly has. I'd argue 3 was bad in most aspects from the start to be honest
DK64 was never a good game either, it's a horrible collectathon.
I can sympathise there. But having near (and only ever near) 100%ed it a while back, it wasn't as bad as I had remembered. **** the DK coin though.
What about all the RPGs on the PS1, what has the N64 got in comparison Quest 64 and Hybrid Heaven? Up against the FF games, Suikoden 2, Grandia etc.
Absolutely true, and I'm glad you didn't mention Chrono Cross and Xenogears - **** that noise. Suikoden 2 I do need to play. On a related note, there's been rumblings online that FF7 has aged poorly. Having played through it fully for the first time a couple of years ago, I thought it held up very well. So there's that
Shmups? Einhander, Soukyugurentai, G-Darius etc. up against Star Soldier 64.
Shmups aren't my thing (not most peoples' things tbf), you win. R Type Delta though, there's a game I'd be wise not to forget
Ocarina of Time better than any adventure game on the PS1? Megaman Legends 2 is as good as if not better.
Certainly not. I'm loathe to pan games I haven't completed, but 2 would want to be a vast improvement over 1 to beat out OOT
Rare's games weren't really that good either. Banjo Kazooie and Jet Force Gemini were great and Blast Corp was sublime but everything else was not great or aged badly.
Probably they weren't as amazing as everyone reckoned, but Banjo Kazooie and the shooters were terrific and still are. Me and Blast Corps never got on
As for Perfect Dark and Goldeneye, they have aged badly and I think Medal of Honour trumped them in single player.
Was never a Medal of Honour fan, and I don't think the other two have aged badly enough to be thoroughly dismissed
From the games you mentioned I don't think you have much experience with the PS1 which means you have a biased view which is understandable. While the N64 is a great console with great games as o1s1n said you'd be hard pressed to pick out 20 classics that haven't aged poorly.
As stated, I'm open to hear about lesser known PS1 games (outside of the mainstream). Alundra, The Granstream Saga and Klonoa scarcely impressed me so far, though. So my experience of the PS1's library is not so extensive (and God knows it's deeper than the N64s, there's one thing that can't be disputed). But games of real stature? True greats? The PS1 still falls just short.I feel bad disagreeing with your write up but I'm not attacking you. I just think you should get a chipped PS1 because there seems to be a lot of games on it to experience that you would love.Likewise, hope I didn't come across as being bitchy. It's just the PS1 is amazing on so many levels that it's hard to contain myself
Not at all, it's good for people to challenge each other's views. I wouldn't have written and published it otherwise0 -
Retr0gamer wrote: »Well from the games you listed it does seem you haven't played a lot of PS1 games. Saying the PS1 only has the FF games when it comes to RPGs is very showing. I think FF7-9 are fantastic however the competition on the console is so good that they wouldn't even be close to the best. Suikoden 2, Grandia, Valkyrie Profile, Breath of Fire 4, Lunar 2 are all far better. I'd put Parasite Eve in there as well, a great game and much better than the crappy sequel that played more like Resident Evil. If you did like strategy RPGs then there's loads on the PS1 with FF Tactics being one of the finest ever made.
It's not just RPGs though. The Megaman Legends games play like Ocarina of Time, the first one actually predates it and most of the innovations Ocarina is praised with appeared here first.
There's also stuff that's hard to categories like LSD, Parappa the Rapper, Tall Unlimited, Devil Dice, Incredible Crisis. The best thing about the PS1 was the low barrier of entry price wish for developers which meant you got some much crazy inventive stuff on the system.
If you think the PS1 only has FF7-9, MGS and SOTN then you really just don't know much about the PS1's library.
I'd be hard pressed to name 20 N64 games that are still playable. On the PS1 though I could easily blow well past 100. Also only 30 top games on the SNES? I beg to differ by a huge margin.
I don't disagree too much with your opinions of the games you mention, there's a few but it's personal opinion, it's just I can't agree with you at all about your assessment of the PS1 since I feel you don't know it well enough to make an informed opinion like you have with the games you have played.
Perhaps one day I'll be able to immerse myself more fully in the PS1 library and give an account on that. I didn't try to dismiss it entirely. I just played probably 30-35 of the games recognised as the top by various gamers and critics online, focusing on the ones I hadn't played before obviously, and found more miss than hit (didn't complete all of the RPGs though, not because they were poor mind, probably more due to me being busy. Grandia and FF9 seemed to have something about them. Suikoden 2 I never got round to. Chrono Cross and Xenogears though, **** me. Cross in particular).
And of course the N64 choice pales badly in comparison to the PS1. Let's not mention third party support. Thing might as well have been a Nintendo and Rare collaboration. But I think the net result was more truly great games
Perhaps my definition of 'great games' is stricter than yous are thinking. Like when you say 'only' to my top 30 games on the SNES, are you perhaps being generous? 8/10s I wouldn't include in that. It's not something that I would count, say, Illusion of Time or Donkey Kong Country 3 in. I'd even be touch-and-go about putting EarthBound in it to be honest. In fact perhaps 30 was too high.
So when I say Mario Kart 64 is a maybe, I appreciate it as still a truly excellent 4-player racer, but remain conscious of its horrible rubber-banding, limited courses and the fact that the SNES original still trumps it. You can have an afternoon of great enjoyment out of it on any given day, but it probably isn't truly a great game that still endures.
But Parappa the Rapper
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I played through Perfect Dark and Goldeneye recently. I wouldn't call them fun at all. They just feel so basic in comparison to what came after, especially on PC the minute Half-Life arrived they were both relics with awful framerates that really affect how the game plays. There's some good levels in Goldeneye but the majority feel very thrown together, even the devs admitted they built levels without any thought put into how they flow, and there's quite a few howlers that people forget. Perfect Dark started off good with much better level design but went terrible just before elvis the alien arrived. I think the people that still like the 360 release are still fooling themselves that it and Goldeneye are still two of the best FPS games ever made because even with the increase in framerate it's not that great a game. I do think they have aged badly enough to be dismissed. At the time they were great and the multiplayer wasn't something the PS1 could match even with the excellent Quake 2 port but now they just aren't fun.
And when I say Medal of Honour was a better single player game, it's also a game that suffered the ravages of time terribly.
I'm not sure what your problems with Resi 1 and 3 are, I still love them, especially the first game which is so well designed and quite unique since after it the series became very action orientated. It's a totally different beast to anything else in the franchise which is why I still think it holds up and is a really tense experience.
I wasn't the biggest fan of Chrono Cross either, it was highly experimental and interesting but the story sucked so much and I didn't have fun of it. Someone at HG101 summed up the story of CC with a picture of CC pissing on Chrono Trigger. Xenogears again was interesting but a total mess, count yourself lucky you never got as far as the god awful second disc.
As for FFVII aging, well it has a bit but it's more fans unrealistic glorification of the title. the so called amazing story is a mess in retrospect and full of weird inconsistencies in tone. I can't deny it's still a lot of fun to play and hasn't aged at all in that regard.
If you like R-type Delta then try Einhander. A shmup by Squaresoft, it should be terrible but turned out awesome.
I wouldn't touch Gran Turismo even when it came out. Pokemon + cars - fun = GT.
You should definitely try out Megaman Legends 2. It's a massive improvement over the first game. The dual analog controls help a lot.
As for the PS1 not having true greats of any great stature, you've just been playing the wrong games.
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I'd take a lot of modern FPS games over Goldeneye and Perfect Dark any day Call of Duty 1 and the first modern warfare are two pinnacles of the genre no matter how you feel the series went afterwards.
I've heard a lot of people saying they prefer FF8, mostly people that rate battle mechanics over everything else. FFVII is one of the simplest RPGs out there with a very basic battle and magic system whereas FFVIII is quite complex and breaking the battle system is a huge amount of the fun to be had with it.
If you want some other recommendations that haven't been mentioned then try these:
Trap Gunner
Jumping Flash 1 and 2
Echo Night
Shadow Tower
All three Kings Field games
Rapid Reload
Strider 2
The Divide
Hellnight
Deception 1, 2 and 3
Persona 2
Some of the stuff there might not be amazing but it is interesting. Also the From Software games can take a while to get into and are incredibly tough, they are spiritual predecessors to Demon's souls after all.
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Would you kindly wat...oh wait ..wrong 'shock.
Since I was playing Bioshock Infinite last week I thought I'd
fire up the greatest PC game evar!!0 -
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"..walking back from your house..walking on the moon.."
Moonwalker, on the meg (with thanks to Los Lobos)0 -
Double Dragon
C64(s), SMS and atari 2600 reviews here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfKeiQCNyc&feature=share&list=PLb5A8dLxle3e0gdIU7fExjP_zaDq_DIWA0 -
Hover Bovver and TempestX3
Also have some reviews/articles up on a this site now:
http://retrounlim.com/
The Outrun retrospective banner at the top links you to one.0 -
Yeah its another lets compare series ..Its gauntlet II!
C64 to follow tommorrow0 -
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Gauntlet 2 is a nasty game. The first game if you are good enough you can play it forever. They realised that flaw in the first game and made sure Gauntlet 2 would destroy the player as quickly as possible.
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In a half hour special (well I thought it was special)I take a look at six of the worst fighters ever to grace an arcade..
Contains :Chainsaws, Kylie in bondage,dinosaurs,dhalsims scaley love-child, small men in nappies ,Slash from Guns N Rose's ex wife and more..0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WfKeiQCNyc
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvoXuVfHifc
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