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SOPA, PIPA, ACTA & SOPA Ireland - Only Thread Please!

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Comments

  • #32
    Fennessy101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Fennessy101


    hey,

    Just raising awareness,but you all seem to have it down to a tee

    http://stopactaireland.weebly.com/index.html :pac:


  • #33
    Fennessy101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭Fennessy101


    hey guys,

    Made this site just to spread awareness about this whole thing!
    check it out maybe? and if you like what you see maybe re-post it to others? or at least spread the message,I couldn't give a **** about the site
    thanks guys

    http://stopactaireland.weebly.com/index.html


  • #34
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    In my opinion boards.ie should put big banner on top of front page so that everyone could see it, or do something like wiki did. As the biggest forum in Ireland message will be heard. "With great powers, comes grate responsibility".


  • #35
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    maknak wrote: »
    In my opinion boards.ie should put big banner on top of front page so that everyone could see it, or do something like wiki did. As the biggest forum in Ireland message will be heard. "With great powers, comes grate responsibility".

    They already have... When you log on there is a message and a fourm displaying Boards.ie 's stance on the issue.
    DeVoire is also in close talks with Stephen Donnelly TD (IND) on the issue. Who I would consider is one of the strongest supporters of our fight


  • #36
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    They already have... When you log on there is a message and a fourm displaying Boards.ie 's stance on the issue.

    Yes I saw that is why few post before I said Blackout... too late. It is not only about boards.ie but about whole media. I have watched 6o'clock news ant nothing except some domestic tanks..... same goes to evening news. It's like people don't fight because they weren't informed. You can find only small bits here, there no big announcement. But noticed since 3 days there interests about ACTA is growing. I think if boards and donedeal will join forces to inform people, then other media like RTE news won't be needed. I read more about ACTA and this is crazy. At the weekend I'll try to write something on blog, but deeper I read I have a filling that all those movies about some conspiracy are F****** true.


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  • #37
    Euripides_
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Euripides_


    Hey guys...now that sherlock has agreed to a debate on the legislation I think it's important for everyone who sent emails, phone calls to td's, we now need to push some more. Send more emails, and phone them some more, so that when the td's go into debate they realise how many people feel so strongly about it...


  • #38
    Euripides_
    Registered Users Posts: 107 ✭✭Euripides_


    deckybarr wrote: »
    Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, Youtube and Google are being threatened by the upcoming Irish SOPA legislation.

    Here is a letter that you can email your TD's

    Quote:
    Dear duly elected representative of the peoples of Ireland,

    I write to you today to call your attention to a matter of great importance and urgency to our nation. Before the months end, Minister of State for Enterprise Seán Sherlock is to publish an “order” which is understood to allow copyright holders to demand the censorship of Irish citizens access an open and democratic Internet.

    The Internet represents the single most important economic, social, and cultural communications tool since mankind spoke his first words. The Internet’s ability to promote the free exchange of artistic expression and encourage the discussion of revolutionary ideas such as democracy makes it to the modern world, what roads were to the Romans. The Internet is the road upon which we and our children and our children’s children will prosper. Any attempt at limiting its efficacy, at censoring the free exchange of ideas and expression should be considered an attack on our liberties and our future prosperity, I hope you’ll agree. Whether you recognise it or not, your constituents certainly do and I am in no doubt that they will make you aware of this fact in the coming days.

    The Internet, spurred on by the incredible wealth of human talent on the Island of Ireland, promotes and takes an active role in the development of technologies of global significance. Its potential positive impact on our Island has yet to be fully realised; we are only now beginning to reap the rewards of our earlier labours of investing in resilient and wide spread broadband to the nation and other investments.

    Yahoo!, Twitter, Facebook, Google, AOL, FourSquare, LinkedIn, PayPal, Zynga, and many more US based companies came out to protest against similar legislation in their country (SOPA/PIPA) which aimed at addressing copyright holders concerns, by censoring the Internet. These companies and those much like them are the future lifeblood of Ireland’s knowledge economy. To believe we can summarily enact legislation that will censor the Internet and not severely detriment our economy and our democratic rights is foolhardy to say the least.

    The means by which this legislation is proposed to work will not achieve its intended result of protecting the rights of copyright holders. Infringing sites will still be accessible by even the most minimally technologically literate persons. This legislation serves only to erode our rights and discourage international investment.

    If we continue to let our rights be eroded at the whims of corporations, which place pressure on our leaders to create legislation that chips away at our ability to freely express ourselves, we will fade into insignificance on the world stage and we will have squandered the enormous potential that we, as a nation striving for a knowledge economy, have worked so hard to achieve.

    On the 11th of January, The European Commission recognised that the Internet “has enormous potential for boosting growth and creating jobs.” and that 20-25% of new jobs could come from growth in this area. Growth which will not be possible if the policies in place are more harmful than they are productive.

    I ask, with all due respect, please do not let this legislation pass.

    Yours sincerely,

    A technologically literate voter

    From
    http://www.scribd.com/sean_nicholls_...net-Censorship


    Here is a list of the email addresses for all the TD's in Ireland. Just cut and paste into the bcc: field in your email client.


    gerry.adams@oireachtas.ie,
    james.bannon@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.barrett@oireachtas.ie,
    ceann.comhairle@oireachtas.ie,
    tom.barry@oireachtas.ie,
    richard.boydbarrett@oireachtas.ie,
    pat.breen@oireachtas.ie,
    tommy.broughan@oireachtas.ie,
    john.browne@oireachtas.ie,
    richard.bruton@oireachtas.ie,
    joan.burton@oireachtas.ie,
    ray.butler@oireachtas.ie,
    jerry.buttimer@oireachtas.ie,
    catherine.byrne@oireachtas.ie,
    eric.byrne@oireachtas.ie,
    dara.calleary@oireachtas.ie,
    ciaran.cannon@oireachtas.ie,
    joe.carey@oireachtas.ie,
    paudie.coffey@oireachtas.ie,
    aine.collins@oireachtas.ie,
    joan.collins@oireachtas.ie,
    niall.collins@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.colreavy@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.conaghan@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.conlan@oireachtas.ie,
    paulj.connaughton@oireachtas.ie,
    ciara.conway@oireachtas.ie,
    noel.coonan@oireachtas.ie,
    marcella.corcorankennedy@oireachtas.ie,
    joe.costello@oireachtas.ie,
    simon.coveney@oireachtas.ie,
    barry.cowen@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.creed@oireachtas.ie,
    lucinda.creighton@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.crowe@oireachtas.ie,
    clare.daly@oireachtas.ie,
    jim.daly@oireachtas.ie,
    john.deasy@oireachtas.ie,
    jimmy.deenihan@oireachtas.ie,
    pat.deering@oireachtas.ie,
    pearse.doherty@oireachtas.ie,
    regina.doherty@oireachtas.ie,
    stephen.donnelly@oireachtas.ie,
    paschal.donohoe@oireachtas.ie,
    timmy.dooley@oireachtas.ie,
    robert.dowds@oireachtas.ie,
    andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie,
    bernard.durkan@oireachtas.ie,
    dessie.ellis@oireachtas.ie,
    damien.english@oireachtas.ie,
    alan.farrell@oireachtas.ie,
    frank.feighan@oireachtas.ie,
    anne.ferris@oireachtas.ie,
    martin.ferris@oireachtas.ie,
    frances.fitzgerald@oireachtas.ie,
    peterm.fitzpatrick@oireachtas.ie,
    charles.flanagan@oireachtas.ie,
    lukeming.flanagan@oireachtas.ie,
    terence.flanagan@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.fleming@oireachtas.ie,
    tom.fleming@oireachtas.ie,
    eamon.gilmore@oireachtas.ie,
    noel.grealish@oireachtas.ie,
    brendan.griffin@oireachtas.ie,
    john.halligan@oireachtas.ie,
    dominic.hannigan@oireachtas.ie,
    noel.harrington@oireachtas.ie,
    simon.harris@oireachtas.ie,
    brian.hayes@oireachtas.ie,
    tom.hayes@oireachtas.ie,
    seamus.healy@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.healy-rae@oireachtas.ie,
    martin.heyden@oireachtas.ie,
    joe.higgins@oireachtas.ie,
    phil.hogan@oireachtas.ie,
    brendan.howlin@oireachtas.ie,
    heather.humphreys@oireachtas.ie,
    kevin.humphreys@oireachtas.ie,
    derek.keating@oireachtas.ie,
    colm.keaveney@oireachtas.ie,
    paul.kehoe@oireachtas.ie,
    bily.kelleher@oireachtas.ie,
    alan.kelly@oireachtas.ie,
    enda.kenny@oireachtas.ie,
    taoiseach@taoiseach.gov.ie,
    sean.kenny@oireachtas.ie,
    seamus.kirk@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.kitt@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.kyne@oireachtas.ie,
    anthony.lawlor@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.lowry@oireachtas.ie,
    ciaran.lynch@oireachtas.ie,
    kathleen.lynch@oireachtas.ie,
    john.lyons@oireachtas.ie,
    padraig.maclochlainn@oireachtas.ie,
    eamonn.maloney@oireachtas.ie,
    micheal.martin@oireachtas.ie,
    peter.mathews@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.mccarthy@oireachtas.ie,
    charlie.mcconalogue@oireachtas.ie,
    marylou.mcdonald@oireachtas.ie,
    shane.mcentee@oireachtas.ie,
    nicky.mcfadden@oireachtas.ie,
    dinny.mcginley@oireachtas.ie,
    finian.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie,
    mattie.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.mcgrath@oireachtas.ie,
    john.mcguinness@oireachtas.ie,
    joe.mchugh@oireachtas.ie,
    sandra.mclellan@oireachtas.ie,
    tony.mcloughlin@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.mcnamara@oireachtas.ie,
    olivia.mitchell@oireachtas.ie,
    mary.mitchelloconnor@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.moynihan@oireachtas.ie,
    michelle.mulherin@oireachtas.ie,
    catherine.murphy@oireachtas.ie,
    dara.murphy@oireachtas.ie,
    eoghan.murphy@oireachtas.ie,
    gerald.nash@oireachtas.ie,
    denis.naughten@oireachtas.ie,
    dan.neville@oireachtas.ie,
    derek.nolan@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.noonan@oireachtas.ie,
    patrick.nulty@oireachtas.ie,
    caoimhghin.ocaolain@oireachtas.ie,
    eamon.ocuiv@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.ofearghail@oireachtas.ie,
    aodhan.oriordain@oireachtas.ie,
    aengus.osnodaigh@oireachtas.ie,
    jonathan.obrien@oireachtas.ie,
    willie.odea@oireachtas.ie,
    kieran.odonnell@oireachtas.ie,
    patrick.odonovan@oireachtas.ie,
    fergus.odowd@oireachtas.ie,
    john.omahony@oireachtas.ie,
    joe.oreilly@oireachtas.ie,
    jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie,
    maureen.osullivan@oireachtas.ie,
    willie.penrose@oireachtas.ie,
    john.perry@oireachtas.ie,
    ann.phelan@oireachtas.ie,
    johnpaul.phelan@oireachtas.ie,
    thomas.pringle@oireachtas.ie,
    ruairi.quinn@oireachtas.ie,
    pat.rabbitte@oireachtas.ie,
    james.reilly@oireachtas.ie,
    michael.ring@oireachtas.ie,
    shane.ross@oireachtas.ie,
    brendan.ryan@oireachtas.ie,
    alan.shatter@oireachtas.ie,
    sean.sherlock@oireachtas.ie,
    roisin.shorthall@oireachtas.ie,
    brendan.smith@oireachtas.ie,
    arthur.spring@oireachtas.ie,
    emmet.stagg@oireachtas.ie,
    brian.stanley@oireachtas.ie,
    david.stanton@oireachtas.ie,
    billy.timmis@oireachtas.ie,
    peadar.toibin@oireachtas.ie,
    robert.troy@oireachtas.ie,
    joanna.tuffy@oireachtas.ie,
    liam.twomey@oireachtas.ie,
    leo.varadkar@oireachtas.ie,
    jack.wall@oireachtas.ie,
    mick.wallace@oireachtas.ie,
    brian.walsh@oireachtas.ie,
    alex.white@oireachtas.ie,


    Also sign the petition at
    http://stopsopaireland.com/

    Start following the twitter account
    https://twitter.com/#!/NoSOPAIreland

    And the facebook page
    https://www.facebook.com/StopSOPAIreland


    And please get the word out to as many people as possible

    Hey deckybarr, since you put together a well worded template on the issue, how do u feel about draughting another, to put pressure on the td's for the upcoming debate??


  • #39
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    maknak wrote: »
    Yes I saw that is why few post before I said Blackout... too late. It is not only about boards.ie but about whole media. I have watched 6o'clock news ant nothing except some domestic tanks..... same goes to evening news. It's like people don't fight because they weren't informed. You can find only small bits here, there no big announcement. But noticed since 3 days there interests about ACTA is growing. I think if boards and donedeal will join forces to inform people, then other media like RTE news won't be needed. I read more about ACTA and this is crazy. At the weekend I'll try to write something on blog, but deeper I read I have a filling that all those movies about some conspiracy are F****** true.

    That's what you get when you live in an ultra conservative country like Ireland. It's ridiculous! RTE knows for a fact that there are 50,000+ people who are worried about this topic yet they refuse to address it.


  • #40
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    OK for those who want to know a little bit more I wrote short guide about ACTA (comes from my blog so Im not violating copyrights... or maybe I do :)) Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement was signed at 26.01.2012 in Tokyo by most EU countries (Cyprus, Slovakia, Holland, Estonia and Germany did not signed ACTA). To implement ACTA, each country needs to ratify it. Although USA have signed, ACTA won’t be ratified in USA. Before, in some countries, people went out on streets to fight for their rights, there was another agreement in USA called SOPA (Stop Online Privacy Act) which failed to be establish. Day after FBI captured Kim Doctom (in New Zealand), creator of MegaUpload (sharing data service) and whole his crew. Few words about Megaupload: - 4% of word wide network bandwidth - 180mln registered users - 50mln daily visits Someone will say – yeah but this was done cause of massive piracy download, yes perhaps but there is a 2nd bottom of it. Kim Doctom, over year ago, announced his new project called Mega Box. Mega Box suppose to be something like iTunes and fully legal. Yes no piracy only legal stuff. Kim wanted to establish connections with artists and give them 90% of income from each download. For those artists who decided to give their media for free, Kim prepared special partnership, allowing them to earn too. As you aware, this will kill RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America) and similar copyrights “protectors” very soon. In this year Kim suppose to show contracts with some artists, if this will succeed probably more artists will go in the same way ( RIAA and clones gives them around 10-14%) – that was the biggest threat to Copyrights organizations. That is why many years ago (2006 – initiated by USA and Japan) those organizations have prepared special agreement ( ACTA, SOPA, PIPA ) as normal fight was ineffective. They come up that governments will help them. ...............You can find rest on my blog as when I paste it it was without alignment and it was looking like rubbish. ( don't want mess with forum admin).


  • #41
    deckybarr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭deckybarr


    http://falkvinge.net/2011/09/05/cable-reveals-extent-of-lapdoggery-from-swedish-govt-on-copyright-monopoly/

    Maybe they are doing the same to Ireland?


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  • #42
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    Well according to this, The Irish intelligence branch are in close contact with the FBI and Scotland Yard.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6d-4OYHLOc


  • #43
    theNewGirl
    Registered Users Posts: 46 ✭theNewGirl


    I am not really sure I understand SOPA to be honest, what happens to the people who watch the videos online? And has it been passed here in Ireland yet?


  • #44
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    theNewGirl wrote: »
    I am not really sure I understand SOPA to be honest, what happens to the people who watch the videos online? And has it been passed here in Ireland yet?

    First off, it is not SOPA that is being passed here in Ireland. It has been dubbed "IrishSOPA" because of the similar detremental effect it can have on the internet here in Ireland.
    Secondly, it is very difficult to tell how thi will effect individuals here in Ireland. This all comes about from a judgement from Justice Charlton after a case taken out by EMI against UPC. EMI wanted UPC to bring the "3 strike rule" into force. This 3 strike rule requires service providers like UPC and Eircom to monitor users downloads and to send out letters informing the user to stop downloading or find themselves disconnected from the web. This case ended in a stale mate. Justice Charleton, although he agreed that UPC was aiding piracy, he was unable to enforce a judgement because Irish law was unable to do so.
    Following this case, EMI threatened to sue Ireland (the state)because they had failed to adjust Irish law to allow these sort of judgements. To prevent a court case, the government created a statutory instrument (secondary law that "does not" need to be voted on. Only needs to be signed by the minister involved). This SI is quite basic (couple of small paragraphs) that allows someone like EMI to take UPC to court and issue an injunction.
    Long story short, the main problem held by the majority of us is the fact that the SI is very vague and leaves it up to the judge as to what judgement he wishes to make. The SI is completely in favour of the Music Industry which, most of us would agree, has a flawed business model. Although the European courts of justice have made recent rulings to suggest that the 3 strike rule goes against individuals rights and the rights of the service providers, Eircom still continues to monitor users downloads.
    As for your second question, what does this mean for us?. Well the likes of EMI have the right to request the information of users who are caught downloading and then have the ability to take these individuals to court for copyright infringement.
    We can expect this SI to be signed by the end of next week.


  • #45
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    The SI is completely in favour of the Music Industry which, most of us would agree, has a flawed business model.

    What is this flawed business model you speak of?


  • #46
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    BrianD wrote: »
    What is this flawed business model you speak of?

    Continued reliance on CD sales by the music industry. There is a refusal to change on their behalf.
    This SI is, in the music industry mindset, a fix to an unfixable problem. It is completely lopsided in favour of the big corporations.
    As far as I am concerned, these wounds being carried by the music industry are self inflicted. The music industry is greedy to the core. Be it iTunes being forced to increase prices on songs (we all know that MP3's are considerably cheaper to produce than physical CDs), Pandora shutting down its UK site because the music industry wanted to charge them astronomical licensing fees (Thanks to my VPN I can access the US site) or Spotify having to cull its catalogue because of complex territorial agreements. Even Kim dotcom put forward an excellent alternative that would completely make piracy irrelevant with his MusicBox that allowed users to download music for free legally.

    Read this article... it explains it very well.


  • #47
    maknak
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭maknak


    Yeah, everywhere they hit, they hit legal customers. Recently Ubisoft and their DRM's. They were doing some maintenance at servers and no one from genuine buyers were able to play off line as game requires direct connection with server - F*** bul*****. All cracked versions have no problem. Only sales sales sales no one cares about our money.....what will happened if they will close down some of older servers?? Game over??


  • #48
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    Continued reliance on CD sales by the music industry. There is a refusal to change on their behalf.
    This SI is, in the music industry mindset, a fix to an unfixable problem. It is completely lopsided in favour of the big corporations.
    As far as I am concerned, these wounds being carried by the music industry are self inflicted. The music industry is greedy to the core. Be it iTunes being forced to increase prices on songs (we all know that MP3's are considerably cheaper to produce than physical CDs), Pandora shutting down its UK site because the music industry wanted to charge them astronomical licensing fees (Thanks to my VPN I can access the US site) or Spotify having to cull its catalogue because of complex territorial agreements. Even Kim dotcom put forward an excellent alternative that would completely make piracy irrelevant with his MusicBox that allowed users to download music for free legally.

    Read this article... it explains it very well.

    I don't think there's any disagreement that physical sales are in decline and the record industry can be slow to shift gear. However, nearly every item that it's the "tradition" record industry can be bought online cheaply, easily and often from multiple sources. Even current law for piracy for physical product carries hefty fines and jail terms. The record industry has always pursued pirates so nothing has really changed? Plus if you think these large conglomerates i.e the record co.s are going vanish, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The record co names that we are familiar with now may vanish into thin air but they'll be replaced by something else.


  • #49
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    BrianD wrote: »
    I don't think there's any disagreement that physical sales are in decline and the record industry can be slow to shift gear. However, nearly every item that it's the "tradition" record industry can be bought online cheaply, easily and often from multiple sources. Even current law for piracy for physical product carries hefty fines and jail terms. The record industry has always pursued pirates so nothing has really changed? Plus if you think these large conglomerates i.e the record co.s are going vanish, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee. The record co names that we are familiar with now may vanish into thin air but they'll be replaced by something else.

    Well can I ask you this... Why are the record companies so reluctant to change? It has been proven time and time again that piracy can be defeated quite easily by a) producing higher quality stock than the pirates (as suggested by the CEO of Steam and the ex CEO of EMI Ireland) or b) reducing the cost of purchasing MP3s online. They are reluctant to do this because of one factor ... greed!
    I pirate music produced by the big names out of spite... It annoys me that the middle man (eg the record companies) get a hugh share of the profits. I have no problem paying for music (I bought a 10 euro EP from a band made up of two brothers from Dublin, the other week because I know the money is going to them and it will help them develop) but I refuse to line the pockets of the likes of Willie Kavanagh (head of IRMA and EMI Ireland). They are the ones who are destroying this greed ridden industry!


  • #50
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    Well can I ask you this... Why are the record companies so reluctant to change? It has been proven time and time again that piracy can be defeated quite easily by a) producing higher quality stock than the pirates (as suggested by the CEO of Steam and the ex CEO of EMI Ireland) or b) reducing the cost of purchasing MP3s online. They are reluctant to do this because of one factor ... greed!
    I pirate music produced by the big names out of spite... It annoys me that the middle man (eg the record companies) get a hugh share of the profits. I have no problem paying for music (I bought a 10 euro EP from a band made up of two brothers from Dublin, the other week because I know the money is going to them and it will help them develop) but I refuse to line the pockets of the likes of Willie Kavanagh (head of IRMA and EMI Ireland). They are the ones who are destroying this greed ridden industry!

    I can buy a track for €0.99 - €1.49. An album for a fiver to a tenner. How much cheaper could it be? I couldn't imagine it being cheaper. There's no money in it for anybody. Go cheaper and you may as well give it away. Quality? That's a red herring. The downloads I buy are at 320kb (at the price above) and I really don't think that the quality is something that people are bothered about given the equipment that the "mass market" has always used. Not everybody has a B&O set up.

    The middle men get a big slice of the pie as they actually do a lot. That's not to justify excesses and inefficiency (which there is plenty of). They do need to be trimmed. To be frank, if you irradicated the record companies tomorrow morning something very similar would emerge very quickly in their place.

    I really don't think the record companies are reluctant to change. There is still a sizable market for physical product (though declining) and if CD's vanished tomorrow the means to sell digitally exists. I wouldn't automatically interpret anti-piracy actions in the digital world bt record labels as necessarily an indication that record companies are clinging to the past. Certainly, they are looking after number one.


  • #51
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    BrianD wrote: »
    I can buy a track for €0.99 - €1.49. An album for a fiver to a tenner. How much cheaper could it be?

    Well to give you an example... Music box proposed free MP3 downloads for it's users that were paid for by advertising directly to the artist. Cut out the middle man.
    BrianD wrote: »
    I couldn't imagine it being cheaper. There's no money in it for anybody. Go cheaper and you may as well give it away.

    Brian, you can buy biros for one cent in some cases from china. We are talking about bulk. There is a big difference at selling an MP3 for say 25c and giving it away for free. If you look at Rihanna for example. Most of her top selling singles sell 60+ million copies. At 25c that's 15 million dollars. But of course the music industry wouldn't be happy with 15 million when they can scab 60 million. They could potentially reap the same reward by reducing cost because more people will be willing to purchase the MP3. So you could be looking at 120 million copies sold at 25c.
    I read there today that Whitney Huston's best selling album was raised in price from 4.99 to 7.99, just hours, no just minutes after he death! Who was to blame? Sony records! Explain that to me Brian?
    BrianD wrote: »
    Quality? That's a red herring. The downloads I buy are at 320kb (at the price above) and I really don't think that the quality is something that people are bothered about given the equipment that the "mass market" has always used. Not everybody has a B&O set up.

    Like I said in my OP. These were not my words... they were the opinions of the experts in the field. One is an ex CEO of EMI, for christ sake! and they were referring to quality of service, not the quality of the product.
    BrianD wrote: »
    Certainly, they are looking after number one.
    My point exactly. Record companies look after record companies and that's that!


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  • #52
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    Well to give you an example... Music box proposed free MP3 downloads for it's users that were paid for by advertising directly to the artist. Cut out the middle man.

    This has never been a successful way to distribute music as the music no longer has a value. It's given away. There's no incentive to use it if I can still download music elsewhere without watching the ads. Most attempts to go this route - mainly by record labels - have been a flop.

    The middle man does a lot - why would you cut him out?
    Brian, you can buy biros for one cent in some cases from china. We are talking about bulk. There is a big difference at selling an MP3 for say 25c and giving it away for free. If you look at Rihanna for example. Most of her top selling singles sell 60+ million copies. At 25c that's 15 million dollars. But of course the music industry wouldn't be happy with 15 million when they can scab 60 million. They could potentially reap the same reward by reducing cost because more people will be willing to purchase the MP3. So you could be looking at 120 million copies sold at 25c.

    If you can produce a biro for 1c and make money on it then go for it! I can also hijack a truck of 1c biros and give them out for free. However, the value of a creative work is not just the cost of the piece of plastic it's on or the cost of encoding and distributing a digital file. There is a value to the creative work that you see or hear.
    I read there today that Whitney Huston's best selling album was raised in price from 4.99 to 7.99, just hours, no just minutes after he death! Who was to blame? Sony records! Explain that to me Brian?

    Why not put it up? Perhaps it was on sale or a slow seller beforehand. I don't see the relevance. When it comes to pricing it's up to the artists and their labels to decide what gives. However, even at 5c a track you can't compete against free. At that price, becoming a musician would be an unsustainable option for most people. How could you recoup the costs of recording, marketing ....


  • #53
    gavmcg92
    Registered Users Posts: 5,316 ✭✭✭gavmcg92


    BrianD wrote: »
    At that price, becoming a musician would be an unsustainable option for most people. How could you recoup the costs of recording, marketing ....

    So you are suggesting that musicians and record labels are struggling to pay for these things you mention? Don't be ridiculous. Their bathing in money.

    As for the Whitney Huston price rise... do you think, within your moral fibre, that it is right to raise the price of a CD 30 minutes after the artist has died. How could someone be so spineless as to try and make a profit from someone's tragic death. And you have questioned me for bringing it up. I brought it up as proof that record labels only care about the money. They are ruining what is so great about music.

    I'm quite perplexed by your final comment. "becoming a musician would be an unsustainable option for most people". Music is not meant to be about money. It shouldn't be. Music has been alive, thriving for centuries. People shouldn't look at being a musician as a job.

    I think it has become quite obvious that we see the music industry in different light.

    EDIT: We have strayed far enough from the topic at hand and thus I will not be replying.


  • #54
    BrianD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,221 ✭✭✭BrianD


    gavmcg92 wrote: »
    So you are suggesting that musicians and record labels are struggling to pay for these things you mention? Don't be ridiculous. Their bathing in money.

    As for the Whitney Huston price rise... do you think, within your moral fibre, that it is right to raise the price of a CD 30 minutes after the artist has died. How could someone be so spineless as to try and make a profit from someone's tragic death. And you have questioned me for bringing it up. I brought it up as proof that record labels only care about the money. They are ruining what is so great about music.

    I'm quite perplexed by your final comment. "becoming a musician would be an unsustainable option for most people". Music is not meant to be about money. It shouldn't be. Music has been alive, thriving for centuries. People shouldn't look at being a musician as a job.

    I think it has become quite obvious that we see the music industry in different light.

    EDIT: We have strayed far enough from the topic at hand and thus I will not be replying.

    You don't know a struggling musician? The ones on the other end of the scale to Beyonce and all the ones in between. How can I be creative if I can't afford to clothe and feed myself? Unfortunately, there are far too many people including yourself who tend to cherry pick parts of this debate e.g. all record companies are evil without looking at the full picture.

    As for the Whitney Houston, I would be inclined to agree that it was certainly opportunistic (too put it mildly) but also to bear in mind that, I'm sure, she also has an estate that will benefit. An inheritance of sorts,


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