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Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that provide reverse engineering service

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  • 21-09-2014 11:29am
    #1
    Kschwarz
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭


    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that provides reverse engineering services?


    I bought a niche electrical consumer dental item last year but unfortunately this year it broke and its warranty has long expired.

    The U.S. dental equipment company which originally produced the dental item that I wanted to repurchase had unfortunately gone out of business at the beginning of this year due to lack of demand for their products. After their company went out of business their products were discontinued and their patents have now expired, So they said.

    It costs way too much now to buy a used or new version of the dental item, Since the product was discontinued in early 2014 the price to buy a new or used one is between $650 and $850 compared to it being priced at around $189 when it was still in production.

    I found it to be a very useful tool when I had patients in my dental surgery and unfortunately I have searched almost everywhere, contacted many other relevant dental equipment companies but nobody else makes it anymore.

    So what I want to do is to independently get this dental item replicated.

    I'd like to get blue print specs drawn up and costs to manufacture determined.

    But I am not sure how to go about doing this seeing as I am not an engineer.

    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that might provide reverse engineering services?

    If not how would I go about seeking out some kind of electrical engineer to dismantle the broken version of the item and draw up the specs, determine the manufacturing costs, product materials and everything else that I would need in order to proceed with replicating the item.

    Can somebody here give me some constructive advise as to what I would need to do relating to reverse engineering and replicating this item?


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    #2
    Dermighty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    Kschwarz wrote: »
    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that provides reverse engineering services?


    I bought a niche electrical consumer dental item last year but unfortunately this year it broke and its warranty has long expired.

    The U.S. dental equipment company which originally produced the dental item that I wanted to repurchase had unfortunately gone out of business at the beginning of this year due to lack of demand for their products. After their company went out of business their products were discontinued and their patents have now expired, So they said.

    It costs way too much now to buy a used or new version of the dental item, Since the product was discontinued in early 2014 the price to buy a new or used one is between $650 and $850 compared to it being priced at around $189 when it was still in production.

    I found it to be a very useful tool when I had patients in my dental surgery and unfortunately I have searched almost everywhere, contacted many other relevant dental equipment companies but nobody else makes it anymore.

    So what I want to do is to independently get this dental item replicated.

    I'd like to get blue print specs drawn up and costs to manufacture determined.

    But I am not sure how to go about doing this seeing as I am not an engineer.

    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that might provide reverse engineering services?

    If not how would I go about seeking out some kind of electrical engineer to dismantle the broken version of the item and draw up the specs, determine the manufacturing costs, product materials and everything else that I would need in order to proceed with replicating the item.

    Can somebody here give me some constructive advise as to what I would need to do relating to reverse engineering and replicating this item?

    Try ringing a few engineering contractors to test the waters. Theyd probably be able to tell you where to ask if they didn't have an interest.


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    #3
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,366 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Kschwarz wrote: »
    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that provides reverse engineering services?


    I bought a niche electrical consumer dental item last year but unfortunately this year it broke and its warranty has long expired.

    The U.S. dental equipment company which originally produced the dental item that I wanted to repurchase had unfortunately gone out of business at the beginning of this year due to lack of demand for their products. After their company went out of business their products were discontinued and their patents have now expired, So they said.

    It costs way too much now to buy a used or new version of the dental item, Since the product was discontinued in early 2014 the price to buy a new or used one is between $650 and $850 compared to it being priced at around $189 when it was still in production.

    I found it to be a very useful tool when I had patients in my dental surgery and unfortunately I have searched almost everywhere, contacted many other relevant dental equipment companies but nobody else makes it anymore.

    So what I want to do is to independently get this dental item replicated.

    I'd like to get blue print specs drawn up and costs to manufacture determined.

    But I am not sure how to go about doing this seeing as I am not an engineer.

    Are there any companies UK, ROI or elsewhere that might provide reverse engineering services?

    If not how would I go about seeking out some kind of electrical engineer to dismantle the broken version of the item and draw up the specs, determine the manufacturing costs, product materials and everything else that I would need in order to proceed with replicating the item.

    Can somebody here give me some constructive advise as to what I would need to do relating to reverse engineering and replicating this item?

    Depending on type of device it may need to pass the various medical device directives to get CE approval. It's strange if there's a market for such a device they would stop making it. You could approach the company / liquidator and see if you can get a licence to produce the product. If you produce the product your responsible for it meeting all the requirements/regulations.

    What sort of volume are you looking to produce?

    If you want to pm me some more information I could probably help you estimate the unit cost. The development cost is going to depend on what regulations it must meet. What regulations dies the existing product meet?

    Many devices in the medical field don't meet the latest regulations, because they out date them. But if your producing a new version of this product you will have to. Don't under estimate the work in this, it can increase the engineering work by a factor of 3 or 4. Very few product development companies in Ireland will have ISO 13485.


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    #4
    Kschwarz
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Kschwarz


    In a nutshell this is simply what I want to do..


    1.) Be able to contact an electrical engineering organization.


    2.) For a small fee they would dismantle the item to draw up some blue print diagram specs
    on exactly how the item functions.


    3.) Then they might make a list of all the components, circuits, battery type etc.
    and how much all the individual parts cost to acquire and manufacturer for the unit.

    4.) I would then like to make many technical advancements and ergonomic design improvements to the unit.


    5.) Then once all that is done and I have everything understood above,
    I would then contact either a company or individual who could obtain the parts and materials to manufacture it for me.

    Seems simple enough process wise, No?


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    #5
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    I think what you're looking for is a product design company as they will/should be able to reverse engineer the product and have a look at the electronics too, or at least be able to recommend someone.

    Do a Google search for "product design ireland" and have a look at the companies that come up, I just did this and there are a few options.


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    #6
    Turbulent Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 1,621 ✭✭✭Turbulent Bill


    Kschwarz wrote: »
    In a nutshell this is simply what I want to do..


    1.) Be able to contact an electrical engineering organization.


    2.) For a small fee they would dismantle the item to draw up some blue print diagram specs
    on exactly how the item functions.


    3.) Then they might make a list of all the components, circuits, battery type etc.
    and how much all the individual parts cost to acquire and manufacturer for the unit.

    4.) I would then like to make many technical advancements and ergonomic design improvements to the unit.


    5.) Then once all that is done and I have everything understood above,
    I would then contact either a company or individual who could obtain the parts and materials to manufacture it for me.

    Seems simple enough process wise, No?

    If you just want a functional tool for your own practice, I recommend trying to get your existing unit repaired by a reputable service company. It might be straightforward to fix, and they should certify that the repaired unit is as per the manufacturer's specs.

    If you want to change and manufacture a new unit, be prepared for many, many multiples of the $850 replacement cost - even a basic reverse engineering will be more than this. Your insurer almost certainly won't cover you using an unregulated device.

    Sorry for sounding like a killjoy (I admire you trying to resurrect the tool), but engineering + medical = $$$ is almost always true.


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    #7
    mawk
    Registered Users Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭mawk


    Not a small probe mounted 3d scanner by chance?


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    #8
    Kschwarz
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Kschwarz


    mawk wrote: »
    Not a small probe mounted 3d scanner by chance?

    Nope, But I wonder who or what could have made you jump to such a random conclusion. ;)


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    #9
    amen
    Registered Users Posts: 2,781 ✭✭✭amen


    If it is patented then the you should be able to download the patent and make the item based on the details in the patent.


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    #10
    Kschwarz
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Kschwarz


    amen wrote: »
    If it is patented then the you should be able to download the patent and make the item based on the details in the patent.


    Nope, As I've mentioned in a PM to user DublinDilbert there is no chance of acquiring those details and it would require too much effort on my behalf in order to do so.

    Thanks for your input though.


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    #11
    davey101
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭davey101


    Turbulent Bill wrote: »
    If you want to change and manufacture a new unit, be prepared for many, many multiples of the $850 replacement cost - even a basic reverse engineering will be more than this.

    This will definitely be the case, even for an engineer to create a BOM (Bill of materials) based on the "Old" device is going to blow your cost out of the water.

    I think you underestimate the work involved in such a project, In fact you are actually doubling the work and cost for your self by trying to reverse engineer the device, What you should probably do is go to a company and tell them what you want and get them to make one from scratch, even bring the obsolete device to demonstrate the principle and explain the upgrades you would like.


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    #12
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Tell us what you need, without knowing the end goal no one can really help you. Plenty of devices are designed for one job but can be modded to fit another


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