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Do you teach your daughters to "be safe"?

  • 13-02-2012 3:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭


    Since the subject of rape seems to be present on boards a lot today after a few disturbing news stories that have broken I thought I'd ask peoples opinions on educating their daughters to take precautions / think about the bad consequences that can happen from seemingly unrelated decisions.Please be assured that I'm not for one second arguing for victim blaming or anything of the sort.

    I will, however, at some point in my daughter's future be attempting to teach her decisions and actions can make her more likely to end up a victim of sexual assault.

    Obviously as her father, I'm sure I'll consider the outfits she wears to discos to be too short, low cut or revealing in some fashion or other and being a grumpy old man at heart will bemoan the fashions of youth of the day completely forgetting the women of my own generation who dressed like streetwalkers (or the lads who's fashion derived from prison inmates). I'll try to hide those feelings however and attempt to teach her that to a scumbag section of society, her short skirt will make her "fair game".

    I'll attempt to teach her to understand the effect of alcohol in the safety of our own home. I'm fond of good beer, wine and whiskey myself, to preach at her about temperance would make me an utter hypocrite. I'll still try to teach her that if she drinks to the point where she's not fully aware of her surroundings that she's putting herself at risk of the actions of those around her.

    I'll attempt to educate her to the dangers of accepting drinks from strangers, to be wary of *any* drink she consumes that she hasn't prepared herself, seen poured from the beer tap or been present whilst the bottle of wine was opened. Regardless of the company.

    I'll try to teach her to be a good judge of character but also to be aware that our judgement as fallible human beings can never be perfect and that there are people out there who, while seeming perfectly charming and nice can turn very nasty as soon as the bedroom door closes or she tells him she doesn't want to take things any further.

    I'll try to teach her that even doing everything in her power to protect herself won't make her 100% safe, that the world is inhabited by men (and women) who are all shades of good and evil, that while it's not worth living one's life in fear, that it makes sense to not only look before you leap but to check the parachute is packed carefully and make sure your friends know where you are.

    Of course, I'll be bringing her along to some form of martial art or self defence lessons at some stage to try and equip her with the skills to beat anyone who tries to harm her to a bloody pulp and making sure she knows Dad's mobile is always on for when she needs a body disposed of too!;)

    Does this make me a pessimist? a realist? a sad indictment of the world we live in? Anyone else think along the same lines when you see news stories of opinion pieces on subjects such as the recent Slutwalks, rape-culture or victim-blaming etc?


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Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I'll try to hide those feelings however and attempt to teach her that to a scumbag section of society, her short skirt will make her "fair game".

    As long as you emphasise that if anything does happen it's not her fault in much the same way that locking your house and getting robbed anyway is not your fault, teaching safety, general self-defense & the confidence it might bring, etc, sounds like a fine idea

    It can be a balance between "be careful" and "if anything happens you weren't careful enough", so it has to be kept in mind to always emphasise the former


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I wouldn't bother with martial arts as in a real-life situation it would be essentially useless or worse, dangerous if it instilled a false security. I would encourage her to practice and perfect the two moves that could save her life - a good hard kick in the groin and running away.

    For the rest I hope I'm not being optimistic in presuming that she'll pick up basic street smarts on her own and will never hesitate to call is she needs anything.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭username123


    I would encourage her to practice and perfect the two moves that could save her life - a good hard kick in the groin and running away.

    I went to martial arts lessons as a young teenager. First class the guy (who was tiny and not remotely tough looking) said 'Right everyone, we are going to practice the most important move in any kind of self defence - start running'.

    I believe being polite and confident can take you out of a bad situation faster than being rude and nervous.

    I also think that teaching a girl to be open and allowing her to be so by not being judgemental is probably a good way to keep her safe.

    My parents had a rule that I had to be home by midnight til I was 18. This resulted in my walking miles home alone on many occasions. They didnt want to listen, it was more important to stick to their rules than hang on an extra 20 or 30 minutes and have a group to walk home with. So dont be like that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭Fittle


    What do you suggest us parents of boys teach them about this subject, as they get older OP?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Squiggler


    I agree with all of what username123 has said, especially this:
    My parents had a rule that I had to be home by midnight til I was 18. This resulted in my walking miles home alone on many occasions. They didnt want to listen, it was more important to stick to their rules than hang on an extra 20 or 30 minutes and have a group to walk home with. So dont be like that!

    My parents always considered my safety, and that of my siblings, far more important than anything else. They were at the other end of the phone, day or night, if we needed them to come and get us - and they still are, no matter what. I think that is the most important thing you can give your child. The assurance that you love them and will always be there for them.

    I would add that it is important that young people know that they are always safer with a friend or a group of friends than alone (male or female) and that they should stick with the group, at night time in particular.

    In the majority of incidents I'm personally aware of it was someone who had wandered off on their own who was victimised. (And, for the record, it is not just girls who are raped. A guy I knew in college was raped by a gang of men when he was walking home alone one night.)

    Actually, with the number of disappearances, violent attacks and beatings, and even murders of young men I would be just as concerned about a son as a daughter.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,400 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    Was actually thinking about this the other day which is surprising considering my daughter is only 1.5yrs old :)

    I think I'd end up being very straight with her, probably to the point where she thinks everything coming out of my mouth is cringe-worthy. I'd like her to assess situations smartly and learn street smarts so she isn't taken advantage of.

    I will DEFINITELY push towards martial arts, boxing or something, its keep you fit, its a very healthy social activity and regardless of a lot of recent criticism about how training makes people overconfident, the ability to throw a strong punch, or perhaps (and it makes me sad even thinking about it) take a punch. While I agree that hollywood has perhaps overestimated the abilities of the average student, I see no reason to not have her somewhat prepared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    bluewolf wrote: »
    As long as you emphasise that if anything does happen it's not her fault in much the same way that locking your house and getting robbed anyway is not your fault, teaching safety, general self-defense & the confidence it might bring, etc, sounds like a fine idea

    It can be a balance between "be careful" and "if anything happens you weren't careful enough", so it has to be kept in mind to always emphasise the former
    That was actually meant to be the last paragraph, d'oh! I fully agree, it's important to make sure you'll love them no matter what and that even if they do something stupid and something goes horribly wrong, it's not their fault if someone else hurts them.

    I do, however, believe it's important for them to be able to recognise that "yes, I did something stupid". You need to be able to recognise your mistakes in life in order to both (a) forgive yourself for them and (b) learn from them.

    I'm not saying that anyone walking through a dark park at night deserves to be mugged/raped/murdered. I am saying they need to recognise it's a stupid thing to do and that, nice as it would be to live in a world where that was safe, that world doesn't exist.


    I wouldn't bother with martial arts as in a real-life situation it would be essentially useless or worse, dangerous if it instilled a false security. I would encourage her to practice and perfect the two moves that could save her life - a good hard kick in the groin and running away.

    For the rest I hope I'm not being optimistic in presuming that she'll pick up basic street smarts on her own and will never hesitate to call is she needs anything.
    Given the behaviour of most teenagers, particularly those from nice families who haven't had to learn their street smarts the hard way, I think it's important not to assume that they'll pick them up themselves.

    First lesson in every martial art is to run when you can. I would be thinking along the lines of Krav Maga or similar reality based arts, however and teaching her that if someone tries to pin her down she's well within her moral rights to break his nose / leg / castrate him in order to facilitate her escape
    Fittle wrote: »
    What do you suggest us parents of boys teach them about this subject, as they get older OP?
    Much of the same but more directed towards the dangers they're more likely to face: on-street intimidation, random violent attacks etc. On the subject of rape specifically? I'd be horrified if I had to explain basic respect for other human beings to my step-son but he will get a "no means no" conversation at the time it becomes an issue (he's only 6 at present).
    RedXIV wrote: »
    Was actually thinking about this the other day which is surprising considering my daughter is only 1.5yrs old :)

    I think I'd end up being very straight with her, probably to the point where she thinks everything coming out of my mouth is cringe-worthy. I'd like her to assess situations smartly and learn street smarts so she isn't taken advantage of.

    I will DEFINITELY push towards martial arts, boxing or something, its keep you fit, its a very healthy social activity and regardless of a lot of recent criticism about how training makes people overconfident, the ability to throw a strong punch, or perhaps (and it makes me sad even thinking about it) take a punch. While I agree that hollywood has perhaps overestimated the abilities of the average student, I see no reason to not have her somewhat prepared.
    Yep, my daughter's only 3 but I think it's worth thinking about teaching them to accept consequences and learn to spot appropriate dangers as soon as you can. Rory, for example knows that going out on the road without mammy, daddy or her big brother can result in being "squished like a tomato and that we'd be very sad that she wasn't here to play with any more".

    I'm not about to explain the dangers of rohypnol to a 3 year old but I don't believe in wrapping them up in cotton wool and leaving them in la-la-land where evil doesn't exist and bad things don't happen.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 2,281 Mod ✭✭✭✭angeldaisy


    I do think that it is important that us as parents do our best to try to make sure that our children are aware of the dangers when it is appropriate to do so. Like you OP my 6 year old son knows that going into the road without looking could result in him being squished, and I'm now trying to make him see that he can't go and talk to any person, dog etc... because its not always safe to do so.
    It is difficult and I know that I am going to be overprotective of him, I'll be the one holding his hand when he is going to uni:o
    The most important lesson that I think he is learning at the moment is that if someone (ie another child) is being rough, hurtful or aggressive to him then he must walk away and tell an adult. Unfortunately this has happened to him and a young lad took a dislike to him and swung a punch at him, luckily I had copped what was happening and managed to stop it connecting. My fella would probably have smacked him back, but I need him to realise that this isn't the right thing to do and I think starting young is the way to do it.
    I would hate him to get into fights when he is older and would much rather he had the confidence and self esteem to just walk away from it.
    Lets hope with all our hard work we can give our children the coping skills they need:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I'm actually the opposite, I'd rather my daughter clouted the other kid back. Think back on your school-days, what kid ever managed to simply walk away from a fight? I know violence isn't a nice thing but it's a reality of the world we live in and I think it's important to parent our children in that world rather than some imaginary one where everything is sunshine and lollipops, bullies don't exist and teachers have the power to put everything right.

    Like it or not, your children will most likely be sharing a school with others whose parents aren't as pro-active as you are with your parenting. Some will be reactive parents, only dealing with problems as they arise rather than attempting to parent in a way to positively influence their children, others tragically just don't give a sh[black]it[/black]: they were dragged up and they'll drag their children up.

    Being able to stand up for oneself is a very important factor in self confidence and self-respect. Combined with being taught that they'll most likely have a better life than the kid who tries to bully them I think letting your children know they're allowed to, and should, stand up for themselves physically when attacked is more likely to work in the real world than telling them to "walk away and tell teacher".


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    I think i would be with sleepy on this.

    If someone attacked her i have told her to hit them back and to fight dirty ( bite till they bleed- rip their skin off with her teeth /poke their eyes- gouge their eyes out/ pull hair / punch their throat) also that she would have more power in her elbows and knees than kicking and punching so to use them to get more force/power

    I would also tell her to leave DNA and to get DNA, (hair/saliva/blood) either with the finger nails or to leave traces on her attacker. She loves CSI so knows that stuff

    Ive talked to her about rape, no meaning no and so on.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    I will be teaching her about the dangers of drinking too much, going off alone with someone, walking home alone etc etc. I will be teaching her that I don't mind what time of night she calls, but I would come and get her rather than have her stuck for a way home.

    I will also be teaching her to trust her instincts and that she should listen to that little voice inside her telling her something isn't right. To never fear offending someone by running away or not accepting a drink if something about it feels off.
    Too many men and women ignore the primitive warning system inside us and don't get ourselves out of bad situations for fear of looking silly or offending someone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭LittleBook


    My parents had a rule that I had to be home by midnight til I was 18. This resulted in my walking miles home alone on many occasions. They didnt want to listen, it was more important to stick to their rules than hang on an extra 20 or 30 minutes and have a group to walk home with. So dont be like that!

    My daughter asks "what time do I have to be home at?" ... my answer is "it doesn't matter (within reason) as long as you all come home together".


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I think i would be with sleepy on this.

    If someone hit her i would tell her to hit them back and to fight dirty ( bite till they bleed- rip their skin off with her teeth /poke their eyes- gouge their eyes out/ pull hair / punch their throat) also that she would have more power in her elbows and knees than kicking and punching so to use them to get more force/power

    I would also tell her to leave DNA and to get DNA, (hair/saliva/blood) either with the finger nails or to leave traces on her attacker. She loves CSI so knows that stuff

    Ive talked to her about rape, no meaning no and so on.

    Up until the last line I thought you were talking about playground scuffles. I thought it was a little OTT.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    Up until the last line I thought you were talking about playground scuffles. I thought it was a little OTT.


    NO.

    I was talking about attempted abduction, attack from a male adult /older male teen , attempted rape (you get the idea?) . That can happen at any age, anywhere night or day. It would be ott for a playground situation but the thread isn't about playground situations its about teaching you kids to be safe in an attack / rape / abduction situation. I tell her to do anything possible to get away and the key places she can hurt someone to be able to make an escape but also gather evidence at the same time.

    My dad always told me the best place you can get someone is the eyes. Ive never had to use that piece of advice even when i walked home alone at 2 am after an 18s disco at 16. The best advice i can give my daughter if attacked is to go for the eyes, if they cant see you, they cant hurt you!

    My daughter likes CSI/crime programmes and it offers a lot of opportunities to discuss certain situations and what to do.

    *recon i should have used 'attack' rather than 'hit' and then you might of seen where i was coming from.


    Just wondering about the OTT bit. Do you consider defending yourself against rape/attempted rape/attempted abduction/attack is OTT?
    How far can someone defend themselves before its OTT?

    Personally i would defend myself until either i was dead or he was dead. Im not the a person who is going to lie there and take it and then be murdered.


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Park Royal


    You would want to put your daughter on the pill asap.....and get them to

    carry condoms for yer men....as well.....


    as regards fighting , there is always somebody bigger, so don't bother fighting.

    Better to walk away from pea brains.....;)


  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 34,942 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    NO.

    I was talking about attempted abduction, attack from a male adult /older male teen , attempted rape (you get the idea?) . That can happen at any age, anywhere night or day. It would be ott for a playground situation but the thread isn't about playground situations its about teaching you kids to be safe in an attack / rape / abduction situation. I tell her to do anything possible to get away and the key places she can hurt someone to be able to make an escape but also gather evidence at the same time.

    My dad always told me the best place you can get someone is the eyes. Ive never had to use that piece of advice even when i walked home alone at 2 am after an 18s disco at 16. The best advice i can give my daughter if attacked is to go for the eyes, if they cant see you, they cant hurt you!

    My daughter likes CSI/crime programmes and it offers a lot of opportunities to discuss certain situations and what to do.

    *recon i should have used 'attack' rather than 'hit' and then you might of seen where i was coming from.


    Just wondering about the OTT bit. Do you consider defending yourself against rape/attempted rape/attempted abduction/attack is OTT?
    How far can someone defend themselves before its OTT?

    Personally i would defend myself until either i was dead or he was dead. Im not the a person who is going to lie there and take it and then be murdered.

    Sorry, but the post you thanked and responded to and said you agreed with was all about schoolyard fights between children which was why I got the wrong end of the stick when you responded on the original topic. I meant that I was thinking while reading that gouging a kid's eyes out was a disproportionate reaction for a bit of argy-bargy in the yard.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    Sorry, but the post you thanked and responded to and said you agreed with was all about schoolyard fights between children which was why I got the wrong end of the stick when you responded on the original topic. I meant that I was thinking while reading that gouging a kid's eyes out was a disproportionate reaction for a bit of argy-bargy in the yard.



    Yep seems a bit drastic for the playground, I did see sleepy saying they would help getting rid of the body......


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,617 ✭✭✭Cat Melodeon


    Martial arts and self defence are all well and good, but the most important thing is to teach your kids how to avoid bad situations in the first place. Most rape is done by someone the victim knows. It doesn't always involve physical violence - it can be psychological and emotional violence too. It's important that kids know that it is okay to simply leave an uncomfortable or threatening situation and that they don't allow a sense of embarrassment or a lack of confidence to overwhelm their flight instinct. In cases where it is a random attack, in many cases the perpetrator is armed or has the benefit of surprise. Fighting back may not be an option. Ensure that your child knows that if something bad does happen, they must call the police as soon as possible and that they must call you or a trusted friend. It's amazing how people can blame themselves and feel ashamed, sometimes even hiding the fact that anything happened rather than admit that they were attacked. And all of this applies to boys as much as girls. Don't forget that the Ryan report showed that as many boys as girls were abused (I think slightly more actually). Once boys reach physical maturity, they tend to be at less of a risk of rape than girls, but until that time they need to be aware of the dangers too. And every boy should be taught - explicitly - about what constitutes rape, that no means no, that not saying yes means no etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Park Royal wrote: »
    as regards fighting , there is always somebody bigger, so don't bother fighting.

    Better to walk away from pea brains.....;)
    If you can, better to make sure they can't run after you as you walk away.

    I apologise if I caused confusion with my earlier post. I want my daughter to stand up for herself at all ages: as a child in the school playground and as a young woman in nightclubs. Looking back at it I can see where the confusion sets in as I was clearly thinking of multiple situations whilst writing the post: in the playground I'd rather she hit back (and talked to me about what happened afterwards) than try to run off to teacher and in a more serious situation when she's older I'd like her to know that she's fully entitled to fight tooth and nail to protect herself: to kill if that's what's necessary to prevent someone from raping her and simply kicking them hard between the legs / gouging their eyes and running isn't enough to get her to safety.

    That said, I'd agree with Cat Melodeon that teaching her to recognise a dangerous situation developing and to recognise a situation that has the potential for a something dangerous to happen is just as, if not more, important and would largely be what I was talking about in my OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭How Strange


    I think the title should be 'do you teach your children to 'be safe'' because I'd be just as worried if not more worried about my son being safe. Girls are taught to be aware of their safety and the dangers of sexual assault etc from early on but somehow we've assumed as a society in general that sexual abuse, sexual assaults and random attacks by strangers happen to girls/women more than men. If we don't teach our sons that it can happen to them too then how can they ask for help if they need it?

    I'll teach my son to always come to me no matter what. If someone puts him in a situation that makes him scared or hurts him I'll always always believe him and I'll never be angry with him.

    I'll tell him to walk away from bullies and tell someone but if he hits back then that's not wrong either as bullies are just cowards who pick on people they think are weaker than them. I was 'bullied' a few times in the sense that I had a mousey look about me as a child which bullies picked up on. This went right up to secondary school. What they didn't reckon on was my temper so when I got to the point of having had enough I'd give them a good thump and the bullying stopped but I was tormented for ages before getting to that point.

    I'll teach him not to start fights or be lippy with strangers because the other person may have a knife etc and will use it. I'll teach him to get the hell out of any situation that feels wrong. I'll teach him that mindless drinking and falling around drunk is not cool and could put him in dangerous situations.

    I'll get him involved in sport as soon as possible and we'll try them all to see which one he likes. If he doesn't like sport we'll try something else but being involved in something he's good at will give him self esteem and confidence.

    If I have a daughter I'll teach her the very same.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    I have 2 boys 5 and 6 and they do taekwondo they are thought to poke eyes, kick shins, kick private parts and punch throats. Not only does the instructor teach them to do it he also talks the the kids about bad men and women, then they go practice on a dummy. He also tells them to scream and to tell mom and dad and guards, he also tells them they can't use the moves outside the centre and only if a stranger approaches them, he teaches them about respect and good qualities. All that for 10 Euro a week.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    I specifically started the thread about girls due to the regularity with which the topic of rape is being discussed at the moment in the media ("rape culture", "victim blaming", "slut walks" have all made headlines in the last couple of months). While I agree with the argument that a woman should have the right to wear whatever the hell she likes and should be safe when she's had one too many, shouldn't need to watch her drinks like a hawk in nightclubs etc. I also worry that those arguing in this fashion can be a little naieve of the real world.

    Morally a woman has every right to do as she likes as long as it's not harming anyone else imo but practically, there are evil people out there who'd latch onto her dress/lack of sobriety/lack of caution as a signal that "she was asking for it" and, while being raped is *never* the victim's fault, there are often cases where if the victim had done x, y or z the rapist wouldn't have been in a position to carry out their heinous act or wouldn't have selected them as their target. I can only imagine how awful it must be for a rape victim to constantly question themselves about "if only" scenarios and, for both the potential to reduce the likelihood of it happening in the first instance and the horrible prospect of trying to recover from it happening anyway, I'd like my daughter to be aware of those factors and, while recognising that in a perfect world she shouldn't have to be so aware of these things, to watch out for them and behave in a fashion that minimises the risks.

    For boys, I think while a lot of the advice is different it's certainly similar: don't wear the wrong football jersey around the wrong part of town, don't back down from a schoolyard bully, keep your wits about you in town and cross the road a few hundred yards before getting to the gang of undesirables you can see up the street rather than walking through them etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 goingforward


    I would recommend the book protecting the gift by Gavin De Becker, it really makes you think and challenge some of the ideas you might already have.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Protecting-Gift-Keeping-Children-Teenagers/dp/0440509009/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329322654&sr=8-1

    For girls I think confidence is a huge thing, the confidence to say no - to more drink, a guy going too far and trusting your own instincts. Unfortunately too many children are taught to do as they are told and it's a hard habbit to break once you become older.

    And if it does happen, the confidence to report it, talk about it and carry on with life without constantly questioning or blaming themselves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    Sleepy wrote: »

    For boys, I think while a lot of the advice is different it's certainly similar: don't wear the wrong football jersey around the wrong part of town, don't back down from a schoolyard bully, keep your wits about you in town and cross the road a few hundred yards before getting to the gang of undesirables you can see up the street rather than walking through them etc.

    Its a bad case of affairs when you cant wear what you want or walk on a footpath to get home. Plan your life avoiding trouble.

    I didn't know how much football shirts have affect on people until my husband wore a Celtic jersey in London. OMG every fella commented on it, it cause no trouble no one started off yet a lot had some remark to make, husband joked that he only got it cause it was on sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Its a bad case of affairs when you cant wear what you want or walk on a footpath to get home. Plan your life avoiding trouble.
    I agree but it's better to be aware of the trouble out there and modify your behaviour to avoid it than to become a victim of it imho.

    Obviously there's a limit to how much one should let fear influence your life but for the vast majority of us that aren't Chuck Norris, it's a sad reality of life (and amazingly, it's not just modern life, we're statistically safer now than we ever have been in history!)


  • Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Fox McCloud


    I think children will get a lot of these messages from the media, school, government campaigns, friends, etc.
    Not to go out alone, get separated from friends, etc.

    But I think the fundamental point of the current 'rape' conversation in the media now is how these messages are not the full picture when it comes to rape. In fact, that some of this safety advice could be more harmful than helpful. As a parent it is your job to bridge the gap between what school etc. can teach and what they need to learn.

    Your daughters and sons are more likely to be raped by a friend, family friend, boyfirend/girlfriend, husband/wife, family member or even a teacher, than a stranger on the street. We like to think of all rapists as some hideous monster that preys on lone or loose girls on the street after hours. He couldnt possibly be good looking, well respected, liked, nice.. a guy you know and trust. That is scary! The idea of your daughters being raped by someone you know and trust is awful, that they, you, couldnt do anything to stop it happening. So we fool ourselves into thinking if we and our daughter do X, Y, Z then they will be safe.

    Not only does this misconception not work for the majority of rapes, it could potentially be harmful when someone IS raped by someone close to them. No one will believe them. It cant be rape because we were getting on so well during the date and we flirted, I kissed him, he's goodlooking and liked and not the monster I learned about so it must not be rape. So they wont tell anybody, the police wont be called, they will let it eat them up inside and suffer in silence.

    The truth is, people may not believe them BECAUSE of the misconception. Even the police, like the one who gave the talk to those college students in the US, have this misconception.


    So what can we do to protect children? We can teach them the reality of what can happen. You can be raped, it is an awful world. You can be raped walking home from the gym looking awful in sweat pants and a hoodie. Or in bed with your partner. Or by someone you flirted with, tried to get their number, someone that you kissed and brought home. The key lesson here is that the second you say 'no', thats it if they continue its rape. If you cant physically say no, then its rape. And if that happens to you it is a terrible thing done to you, and you have the right to tell your friends and family and get their support. You have the right to call the police and be believed and respected. And you have the right to not feel one ounce of blame or guilt or responsibility for what happened to you.


    Another issue that we completely ignore as a society is that fact that rapists exist amongst us. They dont tumble out of a cave fully grown, and prowl the streets looking for victims, then hide in their cave alone. This is the other side to this rape myth.
    Rapists have parents. They have family and friends. They can be anybody.
    I know this is the parenting forum, so this wont go down well, but you son 'could' be a rapist. Because they do come from some where. So how do you plan to make sure that doesnt happen? By teaching them the same thing as your daughter, that rape is wrong, the fault entirely of the perpetrator and that every person has the full right to say no even if they flirted or promised you something.

    I know I slipped into gender stereotypes, but its important to remember that anyone can be raped, anyone can rape.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,128 ✭✭✭cynder


    I know this is the parenting forum, so this wont go down well, but you son 'could' be a rapist. Because they do come from some where. So how do you plan to make sure that doesnt happen? By teaching them the same thing as your daughter, that rape is wrong, the fault entirely of the perpetrator and that every person has the full right to say no even if they flirted or promised you something.

    I know I slipped into gender stereotypes, but its important to remember that anyone can be raped, anyone can rape.

    I intend on speaking with my boys when they are older about no meaning no, and yes and then no and so on. Leave that till they are around 11 or 12 and to reinforce it over the years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,135 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Some very good points Fox McCloud and I'd agree with a lot of it. My point would be to teach them all of what you suggest but not to forget to teach them to use their common sense. Without having the statistics to hand, I'd still be confident enough to state that a large number of rapes that occur involving friends/boyfriends/dates would occur after the consumption of a lot of alcohol or when the girl has ignored her own gut feeling that something may not be right.

    Also, part of me worries that with the statistics showing the "stranger down a dark alley" rape scenario is far less likely that we'd move away from teaching our children to be on guard against such things. To focus so much on the idea that "it's never your fault" that we'd lose the impetus to teach them that they can do things to reduce the likelihood of being raped in the first place.

    I'd agree on teaching boys that no always means no, that it's an unforgivable crime and while it's less likely to happen to them, there's no shame in not being able to fight off a rapist if it does.


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Park Royal


    If the parents have good standards, keep their children in school, eat together

    have fun together, activities etc,.....its a good start.....

    after that keep an eye on their companions.....that they are on the

    right track too.....

    dont have them out all hours , and when they do go out they have friends

    to look after them. when their drinking one of the friends keeps an eye on their drinks when at the toilet.....

    no harm to learn a bit of self defence.....just in case......

    avoid confrontation, avoid fights, avoid poorly supervised areas.....

    better to be in bed early , rather than walking the streets at the wrong
    times of the morning......

    arise refreshed for school, college or work........


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,650 ✭✭✭cooperguy


    I was reading this thread and was going to post something very similar to what you said Fox McCloud. The sad fact is that a huge proportion of rape is carried out by someone the victim knows. The monster preying on lone strangers in the streets is a rare breed but these are the most shocking stories and therefore the ones most discussed in the media.


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