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Constitution Halts Sheriff Video

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    #62
    Zab
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Zab


    I have a few questions if anybody has the time. I have tried to seek the answers myself.

    Court Registrar vs County Registrar. Are these separate offices? Who appoints them?

    About the sheriff not being a "private company". citizensinformation.ie describes them as "self-employed people who are paid for their enforcement work on a commission basis". It says that they aren't used outside of Dublin and Cork, instead the County Registrar does the same work. The sheriff's commission is called "poundage". Do the County Registrars outside of Dublin/Cork get poundage? The man in the video is described as a deputy sheriff, even though the house doesn't seem to be in Dublin or Cork. It seems he is not the County Registrar and he is being paid a wage rather than commission. Who or what is paying his wages? If the home had been successfully repossessed would somebody have earned commission on it?

    The only part of Gilroy's speech that seemed reasonable to me was the possibility that the County Registrar can decide to sign an order and then profit on it. If this is true it seems like a clear conflict or interest.

    The order in the video is apparently signed by the County Registrar. This CI article says that a Registrar can indeed make an order of possession if there is no stated prima facie defence. If there is then he sends it to the High Court. According to the video this particular case did go to the High Court. If that's the case then why is the order signed by the County Registrar rather than a judge?

    I'm finding very little about Irish sheriffs on the internet. CI says that they can make a forced entry into your home to seize goods after they have made reasonable attempts to seize them peaceably. Can anybody do this or do sheriffs have extra rights in the eyes of the law?

    I appreciate any responses.


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    #63
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    I thought all of this was sorted a couple years ago. I don't think a sheriff can force anyone to do anything using force like.
    the sheriff was never entitled to break into the dwelling-house of the judgment debtor, although he was free to enter without breaking or using force

    It's still you against them AFAIK. Bigger bloke wins like.

    http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/Reports/rDebtCollection1.htm


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    #64
    NoQuarter
    Registered Users Posts: 4,632 ✭✭✭NoQuarter


    squod wrote: »
    It's still you against them AFAIK. Bigger bloke wins like.

    http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/Reports/rDebtCollection1.htm

    That link is as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike.

    A 24 year old report on how the law should be changed!


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    #65
    Avatargh
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭Avatargh


    Zab wrote: »
    The order in the video is apparently signed by the County Registrar. This CI article says that a Registrar can indeed make an order of possession if there is no stated prima facie defence. If there is then he sends it to the High Court.

    That's not what it says at all. You are confusing jurisdictions.


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    #66
    Zab
    Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭Zab


    Avatargh wrote: »
    That's not what it says at all. You are confusing jurisdictions.

    As in it's the Circuit Court? Yes, you are correct.


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    #67
    chopser
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭chopser


    Corruptable wrote: »

    For those unfamiliar with this terminology and it's significance, here it is from the horse's mouth so to speak (prepare for laughter): http://www.tirnasaor.com/08/09/legal-vs-lawful/

    "all it took for two people to marry was to stand in their village before their piers, "

    So you couldn't get married if your village was landlocked ?


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    #68
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    That link is as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike.

    A 24 year old report on how the law should be changed!

    The link you posted was far more useful :rolleyes: Pot calling the kettle black!


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    #69
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    NoQuarter wrote: »
    That link is as much use as an ash tray on a motorbike.

    A 24 year old report on how the law should be changed!

    How has the law been changed in the intervening 24 years? If not, it is a good description of the existing law.


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    #70
    chops018
    Registered Users Posts: 2,458 ✭✭✭chops018


    They have a meeting on Wednesday in the RedCow *facepalms*.

    http://freedomfromalldebt.com/


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    #71
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Time to call in a tactical nuclear strike on their location.


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    #72
    tweetie30
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭tweetie30


    mcgarrett wrote: »
    I would have to disagree with you there bluey, the primary duty of a Garda is to protect life and property and there are occasions where statute law will not suffice and you will be forced to rely on the common law.

    In relation to the video with the Sherriff the function of the Gardai at the scene is to prevent a breach of the peace, they are not there to assist an eviction.

    The gardai were there for the protection and safety of the deputy sheriff, as was stated. now if the sheriff is a self employed person he should be employing his own security, it is a misuse of gardai rescources!


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    #73
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    The sheriff is not self employed.


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    #74
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    Our man in Havana wrote: »
    The sheriff is not self employed.

    Maybe I'm missing the point but this says they are self employed....


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/enforcement_of_judgments.html

    I'm confused by this process.

    Does this commission go to the individual sheriff?

    Or to the office?


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    #75
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    finty wrote: »
    Maybe I'm missing the point but this says they are self employed....


    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/personal_finance/debt/enforcement_of_judgments.html

    I'm confused by this process.

    Does this commission go to the individual sheriff?

    Or to the office?

    There are only 2 Sheriffs left in Ireland, one in Dublin and one in Cork. The "Sheriff" in this video is a County Registrar. Bad idea if you ask me but that's the way it is.


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    #76
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There are only 2 Sheriffs left in Ireland, one in Dublin and one in Cork. The "Sheriff" in this video is a County Registrar. Bad idea if you ask me but that's the way it is.

    I'll take from this that Sheriffs in Dublin and Cork do indeed work for commission..


    Do the County Registrars get commission for enforcing judgements?


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    #77
    Our man in Havana
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    No. They get a salary for their role as a quasi judicial official.


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    #78
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Milk & Honey wrote: »
    Having a Court Officer involved in enforcement is a breach of the doctrine of separation of powers. Enforcement is an executive act.

    Is it though? I mean, court orders would be meaningless if they did not have officers to enforce them. A sherriff is not carrying out an executive act in the sense ordinarily meant and executive act does not mean you are executing an order.

    In terms of separation of powers, if the sherriff was signing a law into being he could be ursurping the executive role assigned to the president, or if he is carrying out the government's powers a similar situation would arise.

    Put another way, if enforcing a court order was an executive act, how would you enforce an order against the executive i.e. the government or a government department?


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    #79
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    squod wrote: »
    I thought all of this was sorted a couple years ago. I don't think a sheriff can force anyone to do anything using force like.



    It's still you against them AFAIK. Bigger bloke wins like.

    http://www.lawreform.ie/_fileupload/Reports/rDebtCollection1.htm

    Not quite. If you don't respond to the sherriff or the owners seeking repossession then they go back into court for an order for attachment and committal. Then the gardai come along and arrest you, with force if needs be, and bring you before the court. If you still won't give over the land peaceably they will imprison you.


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    #80
    MagicSean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    tweetie30 wrote: »
    The gardai were there for the protection and safety of the deputy sheriff, as was stated. now if the sheriff is a self employed person he should be employing his own security, it is a misuse of gardai rescources!

    The Gardaí were there to prevent a breach of the peace. Just like in Mayo and at every protest or volatile situation.


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    #81
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Going back to the original video, according to the text at the start the "Serif" was halted by this fantastic display of woo. This text was in the font that makes people vomit from their eyeballs: Comic Sans.

    There's obviously some kind of typesetting conspiracy going on here. We're through the looking glass people.

    If someone were to overthrow the oppressors who favour Times New Roman and other lizard men approved serif fonts, the resulting story could be published as "V for Verdana"? Would the rebels split into factions of Upper Caseists and Lower Caseists?


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    #82
    finty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 266 ✭✭finty


    This guys house was repossessed at the second attempt...

    cant find a link to a full story but its mentioned on journal.ie

    http://www.thejournal.ie/the-9-at-9-thursday-71-384911-Mar2012/


    Where was Ben to make sure everybody was on their oath? :rolleyes:


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    #83
    pirelli
    Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    Robbo wrote: »
    Going back to the original video, according to the text at the start the "Serif" was halted by this fantastic display of woo. This text was in the font that makes people vomit from their eyeballs: Comic Sans.

    There's obviously some kind of typesetting conspiracy going on here. We're through the looking glass people.

    If someone were to overthrow the oppressors who favour Times New Roman and other lizard men approved serif fonts, the resulting story could be published as "V for Verdana"? Would the rebels split into factions of Upper Caseists and Lower Caseists?

    These clever analogy's all accumulate to mark this thread as throwback to the Punch, the 19th century British weekly magazine of humour and satire which became a British institution.

    At the end of the day a family are homeless and a house sits empty in the coffers of a bank. Obviously they wont starve to death and we have a very generous social welfare system but at least one of you could impress us with your legal brilliance and figure a way for the family to retain their home. It's at crossroads like this in our history that i wonder why they force fed us all that Irish history in school. I am strongly considering drawing up a white paper to recommend the board of education to change the history books and remove all the many pargraphs of what today would be viewed as freeman nonsense and simply focus on several generations of west brit families from Dublin 4 and their impressions of ireland. Maybe include a west brit family from cork and galway just to give it some balance.

    I remember the secondary school Irish history books depicting the Landlords as nothing more than wicked and greedy and there were many a picture in the book of dark figures standing on the high rocks in Mayo hurling stones at the landlord's who were evicting the poor tenants.

    Otherwise people will be burning their what appears to be historical propaganda just to keep warm as they huddle together under the ditch. We might as well go back to having schools in hedges. Save 3.1 billion a year we are paying the central bank for Anglo.


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Pirelli's DiMaggio like streak for missing the point and hitting the nub of the nonsense remains unblemished.

    House repossessions don't just happen. This lad tried to intimidate officers of the law and escape a lawful debt by a combination of implied violence and what amounts to an attempt to cast a magic spell.

    Any Schadenfreude experienced here is simply derived from the defeat of the "victorious" Constitution waving individual rather than the consequences of that defeat.

    EDIT: Also your references to Irish history are simplistic and overly populist, not to mention utterly pointless as the analogy does not stand up to any scrutiny to anyone with even a cursory understanding of the Land League and the issues surrounding it.


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    #85
    patwicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭patwicklow


    So why is sean fitzpatrick still in his mansion also sean quinn??


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    #86
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,554 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    patwicklow wrote: »
    So why is sean fitzpatrick still in his mansion also sean quinn??
    Because they live in straw man-sions?


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    #87
    pirelli
    Registered Users Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭pirelli


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Pirelli's DiMaggio like streak for missing the point and hitting the nub of the nonsense remains unblemished.

    House repossessions don't just happen. This lad tried to intimidate officers of the law and escape a lawful debt by a combination of implied violence and what amounts to an attempt to cast a magic spell.

    Any Schadenfreude experienced here is simply derived from the defeat of the "victorious" Constitution waving individual rather than the consequences of that defeat.

    EDIT: Also your references to Irish history are simplistic and overly populist, not to mention utterly pointless as the analogy does not stand up to any scrutiny to anyone with even a cursory understanding of the Land League and the issues surrounding it.
    " Lee Wellstead told the Irish Daily Star: “They cut the locks and took possession.”
    Is that simple enough for you Kayroo! A man with bolt cutters defeats any legal challenge and gets rid of the pesky constitution. Leaving cert history really was that simple but you obviously missed the point. Explain your victory please.


    Robbo wrote: »
    Because they live in straw man-sions?


    Not really a much to defeat in Kayroo's argument unless magic spells are being cast by Italian baseball players, the consequences of which amount to nothing so we must derive pleasure not from the person losing his house but from some devious large man with a pair of bolt cutters and a locksmith.

    Sean Fitzpatrick evicted from his mansion would be Schadenfreude whilst a man with bolt cutters ending a legal challenge would be the closest thing to a strawman victory.


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    #88
    Paulw
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,381 Mod ✭✭✭✭Paulw


    pirelli wrote: »
    " Lee Wellstead told the Irish Daily Star: “They cut the locks and took possession.”
    A man with bolt cutters defeats any legal challenge and gets rid of the pesky constitution.

    The man with the bolt cutters didn't get rid of the constitution at all. He simply followed a lawful order, to reposess the home.

    Maybe you should actually read the details of the case, the fact that the owner had gone through the courts, but failed.


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    #89
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    pirelli wrote: »
    " Lee Wellstead told the Irish Daily Star: “They cut the locks and took possession.”
    Is that simple enough for you Kayroo! A man with bolt cutters defeats any legal challenge and gets rid of the pesky constitution.

    The point is there was no legal challenge by that stage - he was too late. If he wanted to wave his constitution around he should have done so when the bank was seeking their possession order. By the time the sheriff shows up, you've lost and the bank owns that house now.


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    #90
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    pirelli wrote: »
    Leaving cert history really was that simple but you obviously missed the point. Explain your victory please.
    Firstly, if you cannot post without personally insulting or sniping at other members then don't post at all.
    pirelli wrote: »
    Not really a much to defeat in Kayroo's argument unless magic spells are being cast by Italian baseball players, the consequences of which amount to nothing so we must derive pleasure not from the person losing his house but from some devious large man with a pair of bolt cutters and a locksmith.

    Sean Fitzpatrick evicted from his mansion would be Schadenfreude whilst a man with bolt cutters ending a legal challenge would be the closest thing to a strawman victory.
    Second, this type of shallow and vague style posts may fly in After Hours and to some extent Politics, but if you want to continue to post here you need to be slightly more in-depth vis-à-vis your legal argument. You seem to be purposely missing/misrepresenting the issues here.


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    #91
    dermot_sheehan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭dermot_sheehan


    Apparently both an appeal and an application for leave for judicial review were brought for this order for possession, both of which failed.
    http://courts.ie/judgments.nsf/6681dee4565ecf2c80256e7e0052005b/c0e389b2af58a93c8025797a0052eff3?OpenDocument


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