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Commercial office rented - no contract

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  • 14-04-2012 9:45pm
    #1
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    I hope this is the right forum for this.

    Long story short is I (well my Ltd company) rented a spare office from a company in 2006 who had leased the entire building but didn't need all the space. In 2009 they went into liquidation so the building owner contacted me and we agreed I'd stay on for lower monthly rent as he wasn't in a position to provide some of the services I had been receiving e.g. manned reception etc.

    I've been paying the rent every month since then directly to the building owner but we never signed a rental contract or lease.

    What I'd like to know is in the absence of a rental contract or lease what governs the landlord tenant relationship? Can he issue me 30 days notice? Can I issue 30 days notice? What's the process for reviewing the rent paid? Am I in a stronger or weaker position as a tenant without a written contract?

    Cheers,

    Ben
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Is there an written memo of the 'lease' identifying the rent, property and the parties and any other terms, signed by you and/or the landlord.


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    #3
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭BenEadir


    Hi Victor,

    Thanks for replying.

    There is absolutely nothing whatsoever documenting the terms of the lease signed by myself and the landlord, we never exchanged even a proposed lease/rental agreement.

    There were a couple of conversations (one or two by phone and one or two face to face but not minuted or recorded in any way) as well as some email correspondence which mostly consisted of haggling over the monthly rent to be paid but that's it which is really why I'm now asking what my position is!

    Ben


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    BenThere wrote: »
    There were a couple of conversations (one or two by phone and one or two face to face but not minuted or recorded in any way) as well as some email correspondence which mostly consisted of haggling over the monthly rent to be paid but that's it which is really why I'm now asking what my position is!
    Bring these to your solicitor.


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    #5
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    I would say that how strong or weak your position comes from how easily you could find alternative office space. If you are likely to want to move to another location or bigger space anytime soon then the current predicament could suit you.
    On the other hand, if being asked to leave on 30 days notice would damage your business or you would incurr loss then you are in a bbad position and you may want to suggest a contract.


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    #6
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭BenEadir


    Thanks guys, looks like there isn't an easy or straightforward solution so I'll have to get the solicitor involved and that of course means €€€€'s :(

    Ben


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    #7
    fasttalkerchat
    Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    BenThere wrote: »
    Thanks guys, looks like there isn't an easy or straightforward solution so I'll have to get the solicitor involved and that of course means €€€€'s :(

    Ben
    Why not just suggest a contract if thats what you want?
    No need for solicitors if your relationship has been good so far.


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    #8
    BenEadir
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭BenEadir


    fasttalkerchat wrote: »
    Why not just suggest a contract if thats what you want?
    No need for solicitors if your relationship has been good so far.

    Thats a fair point. I guess I'm hoping the terms implied by no contract are more beneficial to me than what might be offered e.g. 30 days notice etc and I would end up in a negotiation I'd prefer to avoid!!

    Ben


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    #9
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,243 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    There is some form of contract. However, any contract for land must be evidenced in writing identifying the rent, property and the parties to be legally enforceable. this needs to be discussed with the solicitor as to whether the e-mails are sufficient.


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    #10
    Milk & Honey
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,950 ✭✭✭Milk & Honey


    Victor wrote: »
    There is some form of contract. However, any contract for land must be evidenced in writing identifying the rent, property and the parties to be legally enforceable. .

    That is not necessarily the case.there is the doctrine of part performance which would be applicable in this case. There is also Deasy's Act.


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    #11
    babymamma
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭babymamma


    can someone answer this
    about to sign a lease for a commercial premises
    The auctioneer sais I would have to pay 20% of building insurance per years
    I was not pleased with this.....Can anyone let me know if this is right or wrong?
    I know I have to pay 3 months rent in advance.
    Rent review after 5 years.


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    #12
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    babymamma wrote: »
    can someone answer this
    about to sign a lease for a commercial premises
    The auctioneer sais I would have to pay 20% of building insurance per years
    I was not pleased with this.....Can anyone let me know if this is right or wrong?
    I know I have to pay 3 months rent in advance.
    Rent review after 5 years.

    If that is a condition of the commercial lease then you either accept the condition or not. Insurance costs are unlikely to ever decrease so this could be a sizeable cost to you each year.


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    #13
    TooObvious
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭TooObvious


    How much of the building are you occupying i guess is the question that comes to mind? If you are taking 1 floor in a 5 floor building, each floor the same size, then 20% is fair enough.

    Generally     speaking in any commercial lease the landlord will have the right to recover insurance for the building and loss of rent (in the event of the need to decant following damage to the building). This is the norm, service charge and insurance i have found to be usually calculated based on the size of your demise as a percentage of the total lettable floor area.

    You haven't signed yet by the looks of things, so you could just walk away as the essence of any good business deal I would have thought is that both parties are happy with it.


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    #14
    Fkall
    Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭Fkall


    Most commercial leases are FRI - full insuring & repairing.

    In your case this means in addition to paying for insurance you will be responsible for 20% of all building costs e.g. the electric bill for common areas, roof repairs, etc.


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