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Road deaths on the rise

«13456

Comments

  • #2
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    As pointed out by mydiscworld in an older thread, road deaths as of Sep 27th are 18 higher than same time in 2012 (141 v 123).

    Shame to see the trend going back in the wrong direction, after such a long period of improvement.

    It has been suggested elsewhere that the previous reductions in road deaths were due at least in part to factors such as recession and emigration.

    Gay B and Conor F are blaming cutbacks in enforcement for the increase so far this year.


  • #3
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    I think there are a mutiple of factors at play here, inc. the ceasing of building motorways.

    Roads such as Gort to Tuam and Cork to Limerick will become safer once these motorways are built.


  • #4
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Road surfaces are going to ****e, people are failing to maintain their cars (now that its getting dark, just notice the amount of cyclops / completely unlit at one end cars there are).


  • #5
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    For a while its easy to pick the low hanging fruit and reduce numbers but you always reach a point in this area when you plateau and then creep back up a bit, esp as enforcement levels are lower overall and road users get slacker again.


  • #6
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Regression to the Mean?


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  • #7
    corcaigh07
    Registered Users Posts: 6,236 ✭✭✭corcaigh07


    Is this the first time Gay Byrne hasn't blamed speed, speed, speed?


  • #8
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Wait a second, increase numbers of "Safety zones" has resulted in an increase in overall deaths ?


  • #9
    vrusinov
    Registered Users Posts: 162 ✭✭vrusinov


    Is there a statistics on number of cars on the road and distance traveled? I suspect increase have a very simple explanation.


  • #10
    Days 298
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Days 298


    corcaigh07 wrote: »
    Is this the first time Gay Byrne hasn't blamed speed, speed, speed?


    I blame the increase in go safe zones.


  • #11
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Wait a second, increase numbers of "Safety zones" has resulted in an increase in overall deaths ?

    Increase in zones but no increase in the amount of hours of detection, right?

    And we're dealing with an decrease in traffic corps detection?


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  • #12
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    As pointed out by mydiscworld in an older thread, road deaths as of Sep 27th are 18 higher than same time in 2012 (141 v 123).
    Statistical fluctuation?
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Gay B and Conor F are blaming cutbacks in enforcement for the increase so far this year.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL_vHDjG5Wk


  • #13
    Jayuu
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Jayuu


    Interesting that people seem to be blaming the reduction in monitoring on this increase. The implication of that is that we are not capable of doing the right thing unless we have a threat of punishment hanging over us. Maybe that's true but what does it say about us.

    The reality is that the numbers were always going to bump back up at some point. That does not mean that (a) the process is a failure or (b) that numbers will continue to rise. One example does not prove a statistical point. It's sad (and tragic for those involved) that numbers haven't continued downward but let's wait and see if this trend continues before we draw any conclusions.


  • #14
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    It's very hard to draw any statistical conclusion from a raw number that small.

    I mean 20 - 30 incidents a year variance could be down to luck, weather etc etc too.


  • #15
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭SeanW


    SpaceTime wrote: »
    It's very hard to draw any statistical conclusion from a raw number that small.

    I mean 20 - 30 incidents a year variance could be down to luck, weather etc etc too.
    Some of the people drawing the firmest conclusions here are those with the biggest ideological axes to grind. There's one in particular who never stops moaning about how motorists aren't regulated or taxed enough, and how everything is too "motorist centric," speed limits are all too high speed enforcement isn't enough by even a quarter, etc. etc. etc.


  • #16
    Reenascreena
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭Reenascreena


    Lazy self justification from RSA. RSA's own research shows dualing an N road reduces fatalities on it by a factor of 10.

    Stop dualing roads, all things being equal - fatalities will stop falling - that's exactly what has happened.


  • #17
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Reenascreena wrote: »
    Lazy self justification from RSA. RSA's own research shows dualing an N road reduces fatalities on it by a factor of 10.

    Stop dualing roads, all things being equal - fatalities will stop falling - that's exactly what has happened.

    One of the main drivers of the drop in road deaths has been the bypassing of old N roads like the N8 and N9 which were lethal for head on collisions and junction crashes at high speed. Never gets a mention because it doesn't serve the likes of Gay Byrne and the RSA who can justify their jobs by calling for more regulation and speed cameras everywhere.


  • #18
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    road_high wrote: »
    One of the main drivers of the drop in road deaths has been the bypassing of old N roads like the N8 and N9 which were lethal for head on collisions and junction crashes at high speed. Never gets a mention because it doesn't serve the likes of Gay Byrne and the RSA who can justify their jobs by calling for more regulation and speed cameras everywhere.

    There was a bit of a change in driver behaviour with the introduction of the penalty points though too. I did notice it, especially on speeding.

    I don't notice as much of the really mad speeding that used to go on on some routes.

    The motorways definitely made the biggest impact though and I think to be honest people actually even speed less on them than they did on the N-roads as they're less frustrated.

    On single-carriageway there's always this sense that everyone tries to pass as quickly as possible and make use of the 'good' stretches.


  • #19
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Reenascreena wrote: »
    Lazy self justification from RSA. RSA's own research shows dualing an N road reduces fatalities on it by a factor of 10.

    Stop dualing roads, all things being equal - fatalities will stop falling - that's exactly what has happened.


    Fatalities have risen this year. Have some dual carriageways been converted back to single-lane?

    Road fatalities in Dublin City fell by 70% 2009-2012. Was that due to dualling of N roads?

    Do you have a source for "factor of 10"?


  • #20
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Where are most deaths taking place now? I'd hazard a guess and say R/local roads?


  • #21
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    road_high wrote: »
    Where are most deaths taking place now? I'd hazard a guess and say R/local roads?

    These stats are not published but see this thread
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056618782


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  • #22
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    road_high wrote: »
    One of the main drivers of the drop in road deaths has been the bypassing of old N roads like the N8 and N9 which were lethal for head on collisions and junction crashes at high speed.

    Indeed, just looking collision map for 2005 - 2011 there were 17 fatal collisions along the old 2 lane N6 (now R446) route. There were 3 on the corresponding dc/motorway.

    The table below is a collation of the years and sections of road where the accidents occurred, along with the approximate opening date of the relevant section of 4 lane Rd.

    Section | 2 Lane | 4 Lane | 4 Lane Open
    KK-TYP | 2005 | | Dec 06
    KK-TYP | 2005 | | Dec 06
    TYP-KB | 2006 | | May 07
    TYP-KB | 2005 | | May 07
    TYP-KB | | 2007 | May 07
    TYP-KB | 2008 | | May 07
    KB-A | 2007 | | Jul 08
    KB-A | 2007 | | Jul 08
    KB-A | | 2011 | Jul 08
    KB-A | 2006 | | Jul 08
    A-B | | 2010 | Jul 09
    A-B | 2011 | | Jul 09
    A-B | 2010 | | Jul 09
    B-G | 2008 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2008 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2008 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2008 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2006 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2005 | | Dec 09
    B-G | 2005 | | Dec 09
    | 17 | 3 |


  • #23
    SpaceTime
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,088 ✭✭✭SpaceTime


    I don't think there's any question but that the opening of more motorway had a huge impact on the accident rates.

    However, I do think there has been an improvement in driver behaviour in Ireland in the last few years. It's very noticeable as I remember definite crazy overtaking in even built up areas in Cork when I was learning to drive in the early 00s and that's not the case now.

    Also, I mean for example on the Lower Glanmire Road in Cork City (main route in from the N8) I remember people being incredibly aggressive a few years ago and nowadays most of the traffic is moving at about 60km/h to 80km/h even on the 100km/h section.

    Something's changed and I think it was probably the introduction of penalty points and more visible enforcement.

    ...

    They do need to seriously crack down on the mobile phone while driving ban again though. I was driving on the N59 Sligo-Ballina which is a really tight and twisty road and I came across at least 4 drivers on their phones.

    People either need to invest in proper handsfree kits for their cars or just let calls go to voicemail.

    I had an employer who got angry with me because I wasn't available while driving though! So, I can understand why some people are put under pressure.


  • #24
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Road fatalities in Dublin City fell by 70% 2009-2012. Was that due to dualling of N roads?
    Stats please.


  • #25
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    Originally Posted by Iwannahurlviewpost.gif
    Road fatalities in Dublin City fell by 70% 2009-2012. Was that due to dualling of N roads?
    SeanW wrote: »
    Stats please.

    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Press%20Office/Road%20Traffic%20deaths%20by%20Road%20user%20and%20county%202007%20to%202012%20V2.pdf

    See pg 2

    Note these stats are for Dublin county as a whole, not the City. I do recall some reports a few months ago on the city stats, but couldn't find them.

    2009: 31 vs 2012: 12. So a drop of 61%

    You get the 70% figure if you compare 2004-2006 Average (Baseline) which that report does.


  • #26
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    Note these stats are for Dublin county as a whole, not the City. I do recall some reports a few months ago on the city stats, but couldn't find them.

    2009: 31 vs 2012: 12. So a drop of 61%

    You get the 70% figure if you compare 2004-2006 Average (Baseline) which that report does.

    M50 widening & junction work (ongoing from 2008), port tunnel opening (in 2007) contribute much?


  • #27
    Sheldons Brain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭Sheldons Brain


    port tunnel opening (in 2007) contribute much?

    The HGV ban surely contributed something.


  • #28
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Sheldons Brain wrote: »
    The HGV ban surely contributed something.

    Which is made possible by the tunnel opening.


  • #29
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I get the impression that from a cost - benefit point of view, new roads seem to have a bigger effect on road deaths than most road safety campaigns. The only one that really sticks out for me is the drink driving campaign which does seem to be working.

    Anyone know what the total cost per annum would be for all speed monitoring activities ? Garda and "safety" vans. Would we see a bigger benefit if this money was put into removing bad bends, patching up bad road surfaces etc etc. Instead of putting in a speed camera van to slow people for a bad bend, just remove the bloody bad bend.


  • #30
    mydiscworld
    Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭mydiscworld


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Instead of putting in a speed camera van to slow people for a bad bend, just remove the bloody bad bend.

    See here. NRA had planned to fix the 50 worst bends in Ireland

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056807762


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  • #31
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    mydiscworld wrote: »
    See here. NRA had planned to fix the 50 worst bends in Ireland

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056807762

    That's well and good. But has anything been done yet ?


    IMO, road "safety" cameras seem to be the 10s equivalent of the 80's black spot sign.


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