"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

hmmm · 06-01-2012 11:40pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

There is I understand no technical reason to prevent this,except a delay,until the Bus downloads each days data on return to the garage after close-of-business.

As a matter of interest, how is this data downloaded at the garage?

ethernet · 07-01-2012 12:15am

Glad someone brought this up. Want to be as efficient as possible when using the card so it is easiest to just ask the driver for the new cash fair, e.g. 1.40, and have the card debited by the Leap rate (i.e. 1.25)? That's not confusing at all for anyone involved! Roll on Luas-like tagging on and off or just a flat fare at this rate.

Carawaystick · 07-01-2012 12:44am

noelfirl wrote: »

Prepaid tickets for DB only increased last June. One would imagine following a yearly pattern that they will go up again this summer. It's not a stretch of imaginations to think that the NTA havn't (or at best are now) considered the price increase or approved them yet.

The doc has the cash prices for the tickets mentioned ( and there's only 2 prepaid tickets in the doc)

Have any of the bus drivers asked leapcard why there is no beep for a leapcard transaction and point out the impact on blind users ( assuming they'll go blah de hard to read screen gives notification blah/ ask the nta/ask dublin bus)

Also if busses are synched up each night with the leap system, why can't online top-ups be available on busses "tomorrow"?

Also the reason given for tagging off not being available is that it'd take too long as there only one door? What is the planed transaction time for a tag off?
The MTA in New York and TfL have a maximum time requirement for a transaction
I'm not sure what RATP in Paris have as their requirements, but from watching, it looked to take a similar amount of time as their old magnetic tickets, i.e. a bit slower than nyc, but no where near as bad as IÉ
On the subway, MTA want the tickets to be able to be swiped so a customer does not need to break a rushed nyc stride
TfL have rejected at least one proposal for nfc technology in credit cards as the time to process a transaction would exceed 375 milliseconds.
I haven't seen any research showing how tagging off would delay passengers deboarding if these short tag times are used. I have seen instructions about tagging on taking a second or so, which is pretty crap for a brand new system.

last point.
Why oh why is credit on tram smart cards not transferred on to the leap card. These ( tram smart cards) along with the Mortons bus seperate and different smartcard were the first steps in spending our EUR50mil
This is just not integrated.

L1011 · 07-01-2012 12:46am

Carawaystick wrote: »

Also if busses are synched up each night with the leap system, why can't online top-ups be available on busses "tomorrow"?

Buses only upload what cards were used on them. The download you propose would involve downloading EVERY card's data to each bus. Storage, bandwidth, time nightmare.

miller50841 · 07-01-2012 1:48am

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Speaking of idiotic website design...

https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=Zk1kXuXjSAmKm4PZmr2wZB3Wfgg5muBAOtzUDB2WjQ9aj7n17vcc%2bKCQDK2%2fwDJHmmmBaDgh987lU62F30yF84i4VqUmgFkXDRaEZm3gf3OwoRQIzTCw4yyRPGaW6G3yN4OcqD428vNC8GTLZOXKG%2f3xNGMT7yBERZXOeD6VbF4%3d

Does anyone know what any of Irish rail's "Distance Categories" mean? It's the first time i've ever heard of it. All it says is "Full details available on irishrail.ie" and when you check out Irish Rail's website, they say "For full information, go to www.leapcard.ie".

Funnilly enough, according to Google the words "Distance Category" don't even show up once on Irish Rail's website.

It is to do with what it will cost the distance you travel so you use your leap/smart card when going onto train and again when leaving station through auto gates. The system is a good idea but still not like most other countries you still pay for each form of transport you use instead of a flat fare that would give you a couple of hours travel.

cson · 07-01-2012 3:03pm

Just to add to this; the fact that you can't top up directly online is a pile of piss. If that isn't changed in the near future it'll dissuade me from persevering with Leap.

blubloblu · 07-01-2012 3:11pm

cson wrote: »

Just to add to this; the fact that you can't top up directly online is a pile of piss. If that isn't changed in the near future it'll dissuade me from persevering with Leap.

That's not really going to change ever.
What is possible at some point in the future is being able to pick up the topup on busses, that would require them having a live connection or loading a list of topups to be applied every morning. That might be a few years away, as mobile internet technology improves.

antoinolachtnai · 07-01-2012 3:35pm

You will be able to pick up online to pups on private bus operators pretty much from the outset.

Jesus Wept · 07-01-2012 3:36pm

I thought you could top up online? Can you only do it in a shop?

foggy_lad · 07-01-2012 3:41pm

The-Rigger wrote: »

I thought you could top up online? Can you only do it in a shop?

You can buy the credit online but ATM you must go to a shop or luas machine or tag on at an Irish rail machine for that credit to be applied to your card.

angel01 · 07-01-2012 4:41pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Something,my dear Angel01,is'nt quite right here....

Was this a LeapCard or Cash Fare transaction you were observing ?,as it's not clear from your post.

There's no €1.45 Fare,either Cash or Leap...1-3 Stages are €1.40 Cash or €1.25 Leap.

Is it possible that Angel01,hear a conversation,or part thereof where a cash paying passenger spots the €1.25 Leap reference and asumes it's the old €1.20 increased to €1.25 ?

This,by the way,is happening to myself regularly as the reality of the 15% Cash Hike is taking a bit of time to impact on many passengers.

Could it be even remotely possible,that in this case,the Busdriver was correct ?

It was a leapcard fare and not cash and it was a complete mess and I am thinking if they mess up like this, people will not use leapcard again.

Aard · 07-01-2012 8:50pm

Apart from a few services (route 90 and a couple others), if you travel more than 7 stages you will pay €1.90 or more. If you buy a Travel 90, you never pay a red cent over €1.90 always. So why in god's name is the "automatic" validator not set at €1.90? It makes no sense. There is no incentive for most bus-only users to use Leap. Travel 90 is the new gold.

Do you hear me, person who made this sh.itty fare system? It makes no sense!

Victor · 07-01-2012 9:14pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have any of the bus drivers asked leapcard why there is no beep for a leapcard transaction and point out the impact on blind users ( assuming they'll go blah de hard to read screen gives notification blah/ ask the nta/ask dublin bus)

The audio is turned off on some Dublin Bus ETMs (Electronic Ticket Machines).

-Chris- · 07-01-2012 9:24pm

angel01 wrote: »

It was a leapcard fare and not cash and it was a complete mess and I am thinking if they mess up like this, people will not use leapcard again.

But what about the issue where the fare you stated doesn't exist?

bk · 08-01-2012 5:15pm

There are ads appearing on the side of some buses saying "visit leapcard.ie"

But if you actually try that you will find that leapcard.ie doesn't work!! You get a message server not found.

You have to use www.leapcard.ie

What a major fail on the part of the NTA. It would literally take 5 minutes to fix this by creating a DNS entry. Not difficult at all, a first year computer student could do it.

Mr Simpson · 08-01-2012 7:27pm

bk wrote: »

There are ads appearing on the side of some buses saying "visit leapcard.ie"

But if you actually try that you will find that leapcard.ie doesn't work!! You get a message server not found.

You have to use www.leapcard.ie

What a major fail on the part of the NTA. It would literally take 5 minutes to fix this by creating a DNS entry. Not difficult at all, a first year computer student could do it.

Its the same in the emails they send you. You click the link and it doesn't work as they left out the www. Ffs its not that hard to get these things right

TheChrisD · 08-01-2012 7:28pm

Irish transport websites in general have always had that problem. Dublin Bus didn't work without the www for... how many years?

juan.kerr · 08-01-2012 7:28pm

mmcn90 wrote: »

Its the same in the emails they send you. You click the link and it doesn't work as they left out the www. Ffs its not that hard to get these things right

It is if you are incompetent.

08-01-2012 10:34pm

The Leap really showed its usefulness today. Was visiting a family member staying in a hotel near the Red Cow stop - was able to use the Leap to get a bus and Luas to and from there. However I still don't find it ideal if I'm only using buses.

Aard · 08-01-2012 11:00pm

It does have its positives for sure. Just wait until some kind of multi-modal fare cap comes into play. (A rebate of sorts iirc.) Dublin won't know what hit it!

Niles · 09-01-2012 12:10am

Used it for the first time yesterday, can't say I can fault it. I was surprised how easy it was to pay for the bus fare - I thought I might have to diligently scan the card along an exact point/laser or something, but found the process of simply putting your card flat on the reader/pad thing very straightforward.

n97 mini · 09-01-2012 12:23am

Karsini wrote: »

The Leap really showed its usefulness today. Was visiting a family member staying in a hotel near the Red Cow stop - was able to use the Leap to get a bus and Luas to and from there. However I still don't find it ideal if I'm only using buses.

You could have done both just as easily using cash, which is arguably more convenient to you as you don't need to buy a plastic card and then load it with credit.

Niles · 09-01-2012 12:39am

n97 mini wrote: »

You could have done both just as easily using cash, which is arguably more convenient to you as you don't need to buy a plastic card and then load it with credit.

But you're saving money with the leap card (I personally save 25c on each bus journey). Even if you only use it once a week sooner or later you'll earn back the cost of the card.

09-01-2012 12:46am

Hardly more convenient - you need to make sure you have the right change for the bus journey. Chances are I won't be queuing up in Dublin Bus HQ for a 60c refund.

I very rarely pay in cash on buses, I've been using Travel 90s for most of my trips since 2007. Leap would actually encourage me to use Luas for some journeys. If I didn't have the Leap card I would have instead got the 123 from Fairview and changed to a 13.

n97 mini · 09-01-2012 12:56am

Niles wrote: »

But you're saving money with the leap card (I personally save 25c on each bus journey). Even if you only use it once a week sooner or later you'll earn back the cost of the card.

That may be true, but his point was about usefulness, not cost saving.

Leap is an e-purse for holding money. My pocket does the same thing, gets topped up automatically, and comes free with every pair of trousers I buy.

castie · 09-01-2012 3:25am

leapcard.ie works fine for me. (Im using FF)

bk · 09-01-2012 9:30am

TheChrisD wrote: »

Irish transport websites in general have always had that problem. Dublin Bus didn't work without the www for... how many years?

http://dublinbus.ie still doesn't work.
Nor does http://buseireann.ie and http://whensmybus.ie

In fairness to Irish Rail, http://irishrail.ie does work, as does http://luas.ie

Karsini wrote: »

I very rarely pay in cash on buses, I've been using Travel 90s for most of my trips since 2007. Leap would actually encourage me to use Luas for some journeys. If I didn't have the Leap card I would have instead got the 123 from Fairview and changed to a 13.

Wouldn't the 123 + 13 been significantly cheaper with a travel 90 then 123 + Luas?

castie wrote: »

leapcard.ie works fine for me. (Im using FF)

http://leapcard.ie works for you? You must be using a DNS server of Firefox plugin that automatically tries www.leapcard.ie if the DNS entry isn't found.

ixoy · 09-01-2012 1:01pm

If I request a free LEAP card (as detailed here) as I have an existing one, do I have to use all the balance on my existing card before I use my new LEAP card? Or can I use the two in tandem?

The instructions aren't clear as to whether activating my new LEAP card would invalidate my old LUAS card. I won't be using my LUAS card credit for a while but I'd like to save on a LEAP card for the bus if I can.

markpb · 09-01-2012 1:03pm

ixoy wrote: »

If I request a free LEAP card (as detailed here) as I have an existing one, do I have to use all the balance on my existing card before I use my new LEAP card? Or can I use the two in tandem?

Your balance remains on your old Luas/Irish Rail card to use as before. The new card is totally separate, you can top it up and start using it whenever you want.

Aard · 09-01-2012 3:18pm

Another couple things about the site. The title of the homepage is "leapcard.ie. Web Portal Home". This seems like something that was used before the site went public. It should be something simpler like "Leap Card - Home" or similar.

Second is that there is no link to fares from the homepage. Seeing as the whole point of Leap is to offer 'integrated' (read: not actually integrated yet) fares, you'd think it imperative to include the fares list at most one click away. I had to click around a bit before I found it; there is no intuitive route, and I wouldn't exactly be net-illiterate.

"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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