The Interconnector is the Answer

P11 Comms · 05-09-2004 11:47am #1

Please sign this on-line petition for a proper underground rail network for Dublin and Leinster, which will cost €700 million less that the RPA's Airport Metro:

www.extendthedart.com

then pass it on to everybody you know.

Thanks,
Platform11 - Ireland's National Rail Users Organisation

MrPudding · 05-09-2004 3:55pm

Done. Good luck.

MrP

tba · 05-09-2004 7:31pm

is it just me or is this plan a little biased.

The area north of the river is being completely ignored.

I would sign it if it pushed for the addition of more stations along the existing north side rail line and the introduction of a ring rail.

As the plan stands at the moment Im afraid I wouldnt support it.

P11 Comms · 05-09-2004 7:42pm

tba wrote:

is it just me or is this plan a little biased.

The area north of the river is being completely ignored.

I would sign it if it pushed for the addition of more stations along the existing north side rail line and the introduction of a ring rail.

As the plan stands at the moment Im afraid I wouldnt support it.

This is stage one. The orbital rail line is only possible if the Interconnector goes ahead: www.platform11.org/dconnector.html

The only bias out there is the Government not wanting to spend money on public transport - this is the nearest thing to making it impossible for them to say no. This is the best offer you are going to get, believe me.

P11 Comms · 05-09-2004 7:51pm

Victor,

Would there be any chance of this petition/thread being crossposted to other boards.ie groups, as its significance is beyond just us lot who are interested in transport?

tba · 05-09-2004 7:54pm

Ah good

It is a bit hard to see that on the website and I had a good long look, are you involved in the organisation p11, cause if you are I would suggest making the whole scheme obvious, not just piecemeal components like this interconnector, be it stage one or whatever.

I think that there is some very good thinking in here paticulaurly the changing of pearse into a regional staion. I personally think that there is room for both schemes, in a certain fashion.

sliabh · 06-09-2004 8:59am

Platform11 I know you have declared your role as PRO for Platform11, can you tell me if you are an employee of Irish Rail?

Just curious

enterprise · 06-09-2004 9:18am

I can tell you he is not.

thejollyrodger · 06-09-2004 9:33am

I would like to vote for the Metro. Is there a petition on P11 where i can do that?

T Mr · 06-09-2004 10:20am

You can build the WRC the €700m saved

maxheadroom · 06-09-2004 10:30am

thejollyrodger wrote:

I would like to vote for the Metro. Is there a petition on P11 where i can do that?

Doubtful, given that they don't support the project (at least, not until the interconnector is built)

P11 Comms · 06-09-2004 11:02am

sliabh wrote:

Platform11 I know you have declared your role as PRO for Platform11, can you tell me if you are an employee of Irish Rail?

Just curious

I am the Communications Officer. Never been employed by IE/CIE or any semi state agency/government department in my life.

Jollyroger: Platform11 does not support the current Airport Metro plans unless radical changes are made to the present government plans to include Swords and better integration into the current rail network as outlined in our consulatation with the Oireactas Transport Committee on the matter.

thejollyrodger · 06-09-2004 3:19pm

I heard the Metro is going in front of the cabinet in the next few weeks and it looks like it will get the green light. Included is a stop at Swords.

They should build the interconnetor as well.

enterprise · 06-09-2004 4:17pm

How many times have we heard "will be brought before Cabinet within weeks" from Brennan's mouth???

Until the digging actually starts on either the Interconnector or Metro then I will know its started, not before then.

Plus I would go for the "Interconnector" as its offers the best rail solution for Dublin. And as P11 has stated before, we already have a metro (p.s. Its called the DART in case nobody knows).

Victor · 06-09-2004 11:30pm

P11 Comms wrote:

Would there be any chance of this petition/thread being crossposted to other boards.ie groups, as its significance is beyond just us lot who are interested in transport?

Where do you want it? I'm not sure how many other places are relevant.

jd · 07-09-2004 7:55am

Victor wrote:

Where do you want it? I'm not sure how many other places are relevant.

Maybe Green Issues, and perhaps Business and finance.
Maybe the east regional board.

dmeehan · 07-09-2004 9:46am

I have only gotten 2 replys from the list of TD's and ministers listed on the email
- one of which was an email from a TD who shall remain nameless stating that s/he would only correspsond with email submissions who provide a full postal address or land line telephone number. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of email??

sliabh · 07-09-2004 10:00am

dmeehan wrote:

I have only gotten 2 replys from the list of TD's and ministers listed on the email
- one of which was an email from a TD who shall remain nameless stating that s/he would only correspsond with email submissions who provide a full postal address or land line telephone number. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of email??

It would be par for the course with politicians and email. I have mailed my TDs and city councillors occasionally. With the 4 councillors the Green and Labour ones responded, no reply from Fine Gael and Fianna Fail. Of my 4 TDs (I live in dublin South East) I got responses from Labour and the PD's, nothing from the Greens or Fianna Fail. So on average 50%.

In general they have been receptive to what I have sent it, however the TDs all responded with postal material. Probably because they get various allowances for that, even though the email would be free!

gom · 07-09-2004 10:14am

I had a look at the plan and I'm not in favour.
WHile you do say that it is no doubt cheaper than proposed plans in front of government It is not nearly as comprehensive.

I'm in favour of a integrated network. Not an add on. The DART is not a viable means of transport for the majority of DUbliners in my opinion. An underground is the way to go. It is extremely expensive, time consuming to build and a legal loophole in many ways but a Fully functioning, Fully servicing underground metro with numerous lines in DUblin is far better than an add on to the DART. For this I would accept a 25 year rise of 5% in my INcome tax...

maxheadroom · 07-09-2004 11:47am

gom wrote:

I had a look at the plan and I'm not in favour.
WHile you do say that it is no doubt cheaper than proposed plans in front of government It is not nearly as comprehensive.

What? You do realise that the "Platform for change", multi line, integrated metro system is not what's being discussed here, right? The RPA metro is a single line, running from stephen's green to the airport (and possibly on out to Swords) with no interchanges with heavy rail at all. How is that "comprehensive"?

gom wrote:

I'm in favour of a integrated network. Not an add on. The DART is not a viable means of transport for the majority of DUbliners in my opinion. An underground is the way to go. It is extremely expensive, time consuming to build and a legal loophole in many ways but a Fully functioning, Fully servicing underground metro with numerous lines in DUblin is far better than an add on to the DART. For this I would accept a 25 year rise of 5% in my INcome tax...

I would assume that the DART is not a viable means of transport for so many people because it goes nowhere near them. The interconnector will be underground in the city centre. Note that the RPA metro will be a surface line for most of its course too.

And once again, a fully uderground metro with numerous lines is unfortunately not on the cards here. Unfortunatel, the politicians are perfectly happy letting everyone believe it is so they will love the idea of any metro, even if its a single, relatively short, and extremely overpriced line.

sliabh · 07-09-2004 11:51am

maxheadroom wrote:

I would assume that the DART is not a viable means of transport for so many people because it goes nowhere near them.

To be fair the interconnecor will not really change this. It's more about tying together existing parts of the heavy rail network and making it more attractive to people living along the line than bringing rail to areas of the city where there is none at the moment.

Zaph0d · 07-09-2004 12:09pm

gom wrote:

I'm in favour of a integrated network. Not an add on. The DART is not a viable means of transport for the majority of DUbliners in my opinion. An underground is the way to go. It is extremely expensive, time consuming to build and a legal loophole in many ways but a Fully functioning, Fully servicing underground metro with numerous lines in DUblin is far better than an add on to the DART. For this I would accept a 25 year rise of 5% in my INcome tax...

Supporting a proposal that is not up for consideration is equivalent to abstention.

It may be unclear that the two proposals being considered by government both involve underground railway sections and so could both be the first step in a Dublin metro network. The question is which should be built first.

It would be nice to build both and it would be nice to raise income tax by 5% and build a 12.5 billion euro citywide network. Do you think this is likely?

It is also very possible that the government will opt to do nothing or choose one plan and run out of money after several years of EIS, public enquiries and appeals.

I think Gom shows up a flaw in P11's marketing. At first glance, it appears that the choice is between an underground metro system and an overground DART extension. People think "feck it, let's spend the money and get the underground". Will the cabinet members throw more than a first glance at this?

maxheadroom · 07-09-2004 1:27pm

sliabh wrote:

To be fair the interconnecor will not really change this. It's more about tying together existing parts of the heavy rail network and making it more attractive to people living along the line than bringing rail to areas of the city where there is none at the moment.

Well, it will change the number of people with access to a high frequency, fast service. It will also serve a much larger catchment area than the RPA metro.

It also provides a very viable startying point for new DART lines (I'd still like to see a northwest - southwest cross city line...)

Metrobest · 08-09-2004 9:32pm

The interconnector isn't the only answer. To get the 'answer' we need a situation in which 90+ percent of Dublin is linked by rail. That's the only way to reduce traffic in Dublin. Don't let anyone say otherwise.

Also for the entire Northside of Dublin, the Interconnector provides a lot more questions than answers. Question: How long will a jorney from Sutton to Lansdowne, or Clontarf to Connolly, or Clonsilla to Raheny take post-Interconnector? Answer: a lot longer!

Supporters of the Interconnector are determined to create an 'Interconnector versus Airport Metro'' choice. Neither projects delivers value for money; neither project does anything for the vast majority of Dubliners. We need a third option. A metro that links transport and people hubs in Dublin. And yes, it's going to cost more money than an Interconnector, or an Airport Metro. What about it. The fact is, it's badly needed. An extra couple of million to build a decent metro network will reap value-for-money benefits the two ''on the table'' projects can only dream of.

murphaph · 09-09-2004 6:26pm

I'm sure nobody would suggest that the interconnector or the RPA proposal would solve all the problems even if both were built tomorrow. The interconnector undoubtedly provides the better start point for rapid transit network expansion however. The reality is that these are the only 2 proposals before government.

sliabh · 10-09-2004 9:51am

murphaph wrote:

The reality is that these are the only 2 proposals before government.

Is the Interconnector really before govenrment? The only one I have heard of being discussed for approval is the airport metro project.

BrianD · 10-09-2004 10:36am

Like the Luas, the interconnector is not the answer but a part of the solution.

MrPudding · 10-09-2004 11:07am

dmeehan wrote:

I have only gotten 2 replys from the list of TD's and ministers listed on the email
- one of which was an email from a TD who shall remain nameless stating that s/he would only correspsond with email submissions who provide a full postal address or land line telephone number. Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of email??

I got the same mail. Pathetic. I have also received about 15 other replies from others on the list. Canned I would imagine but at least they replied.

MrP

P11 Comms · 23-09-2004 10:37pm

Airport Metro versus Interconnector Comparative Analysis here:

http://www.platform11.org/comparison.html

The Interconnector is the Answer

Comments