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Saorview to change Mt Leinster channel

  • 14-11-2011 6:25pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 20


    Just spotted this today, sorry if already posted

    Copied from

    http://www.saorview.ie/news/2572/

    CHANNEL FREQUENCY CHANGE AT SOME TRANSMITTERS

    CHANNEL FREQUENCY CHANGE AT SOME TRANSMITTERS AS SAORVIEW
    PROGRESSES TOWARDS FINAL CONFIGURATION TO THE DIGITAL NETWORK

    As work continues to extend SAORVIEW coverage to 98% of the Irish population, technical changes will be made at 3 of the 51 transmission sites. The frequency channels which carry SAORVIEW need to be changed to extend and improve coverage and to vacate channels above channel 60 at analogue switchover. These frequency changes will take place on October 24th 2012.

    This technical change may require some viewers to carry out a rescan of their SAORVIEW receivers. A rescan is a relatively simple procedure, very similar to the initial set-up. Viewers receiving from the following transmission sites are most likely to need to make this minor adjustment, but not before October 24th 2012.

    1. Clermont Carn, serving Louth, Meath, North Dublin, Cavan, Monaghan, and Down, Armagh, Antrim
    2. Mount Leinster, serving Wexford, Carlow, Kilkenny, South Wicklow, Tipperary, Waterford. The changes at Mount Leinster have also been prompted by feedback and requests for same from the main professional aerial installation bodies and are designed to overcome the problem of occasional interference from the UK transmitter Preseli, Wales.
    3. Holywell Hill, serving Donegal, and Derry, Tyrone
    More information is available at www.rtenl.ie and updates will be available throughout October 2012 as the changes occur.


«134567

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    Sounds like it might be good news for those of us living in coastal areas of Wexford, I presume they could use Channel 39 and up the power. Not for twelve months though :mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,351 ✭✭✭Ronnie Raygun


    I wonder how many group B aerials have been installed for Mt. L.?

    @Boggy, nice to see you found something worthy of posting about after 10 1/2 years!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    Link to document at RTENL:

    http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.0.pdf

    After 24th October 2012:

    Mount Leinster PSB1 changes from ch 45 to ch 23
    Mount Leinster PSB2 changes from ch 39 to ch 26

    Clermont Carn PSB1 changes from ch 53 to ch 52
    Clermont carn PSB2 changes from ch 57 to ch 56

    Holywell Hill PSB2 changes from ch 25 to ch 33.

    Also it says in that document that "no timeframe or launch date has been set at the moment for the second Public Service multiplex."


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭firkin


    Is this for f*cking real ???

    It's less than a year to the analogue switch off and they still haven't settled on the frequencies ?? !

    These guys are imbeciles. :mad:


    Edit:In my state of disblief I forgot to thank the OP for posting this. So thanks! And thanks to Mayo Exile for the link the RTENL document. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    ASO ALWAYS means re-tuning. Many UK areas had MULTIPLE retunes.

    Here is there is only once at ASO (24th October 2012).

    Ireland Only
    Holywell Hill, Clermont Carn (increase power and new channels are same Group)
    Mt Leinster is a group change B to A (45 - > 23) ONCE. This will stop interference in Wales and in Ireland.

    RTENL had advised Mt. Leinster reception to be on Wideband aerial. Now you know why.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    After 24th October 2012:

    Mount Leinster PSB1 changes from ch 45 to ch 23
    Mount Leinster PSB2 changes from ch 39 to ch 26

    Reusing the existing Group A analogue frequencies for DTT at ASO.

    Many viewers will have upgraded their analogue Group A aerials to wideband to receive Saorview and will have to do so until the end of Oct next year.

    The Saorview coverage checker has been updated to relect the Oct 2012 changes to Mux1 at Mt Leinster and Clermont Carn.

    MOUNT LEINSTER
    Channel: 45, changing to 23 at Oct 2012
    Polarization: H


    CLERMONT CARN
    Channel: 53, changing to 52 at Oct 2012
    Polarization: V


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I wonder how many group B aerials have been installed for Mt. L.?

    @Boggy, nice to see you found something worthy of posting about after 10 1/2 years!

    People were told to install Wideband for Mt Leinster in the RTE Brochure.

    Actually a Group A will work better on Ch45 than a Group B on Ch 23

    So if a Wideband isn't good enough, install a Group A.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,634 ✭✭✭Mayo Exile


    I wonder how many group B aerials have been installed for Mt. L.?

    How many indeed......

    CC and Holywell Hill are at least changing within their respective aerial groups, but the change at Mt L after 24th October 2012 means many with group A aerials for current analogue output from there will be ok after this date. They may as well stick with analogue until switchoff in Oct 2012. No point in getting a group B aerial just for 11 months use out of it, unless people install a wideband aerial if they want DTT now and after ASO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It's incredibly small amount of changes and only once compared with the UK Musical Chairs of DSO.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    firkin wrote: »
    Is this for f*cking real ???

    It's less than a year to the analogue switch off and they still haven't settled on the frequencies ?? !

    These guys are imbeciles. :mad:

    Retunes at 3 transmitters isn't a great burden.

    The UK has been retuning since 2008 and will continue for a year after ASO over there, into late 2013 clearing UHF channels 61 & 62 affecting 7 million households.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Now that all concerned appear to have agreed the final configuration for the Irish transmitters maybe they'll now publish the actual ERPs for the 51 sites at ASO.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi




    @Boggy, nice to see you found something worthy of posting about after 10 1/2 years!

    "They also serve, who only stand and wait".......John Milton


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Regarding the other 2 retunes Holywell Hill moving Mux 2 from Ch 25 to Ch 33 to avoid possible conflict with the Brougher Mt HD Mux on Ch 25 post ASO? Holywell Hill Ch 33 is within the 600MHz band Ofcom will be auctioning off next year.

    Why was Clermont Carn moved from Ch 53/57 to Ch 52/56, to avoid potential conflict with Truskmore when CC goes full power at ASO?


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Cush wrote: »
    Now that all concerned appear to have agreed the final configuration for the Irish transmitters maybe they'll now publish the actual ERPs for the 51 sites at ASO.

    I've asked.
    I'm also asked that question very often.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    All of Europe is only sharing 39 channels. Our border co-ordination issues are minor (Wales and NI) compared with many places.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    I really like the "...been prompted by feedback and requests for same from the main professional aerial installation bodies and are designed to overcome the problem of occasional interference from the UK transmitter Preseli, Wales."
    In simple terms OFCOM jumping up and down.

    Needless to say I'm one happy bunny to be able to look forward to reliable "Dave" etc:D:D:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 354 ✭✭egal


    This looks like good news for us here in Omagh who would be likely to get best reception from Holywell, since, after switchover, channels 30 and 33 will no longer be in use at Brougher Mountain. BUT, is there any news yet on the frequency for the Brougher RTE mini mux? Possible conflict there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    egal wrote: »
    is there any news yet on the frequency for the Brougher RTE mini mux? Possible conflict there.

    Nothing yet but I'd guess they'll try to avoid any possible conflict.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    I personally welcome this decision both for technical and coverage considerations, and the common benefits between each side of the sea for cultural reasons.

    It's unfortunate that they did not advise of the change sooner than 2012 as it would have saved mine and I suspect many others' blood pressure if we knew Group A aerials would still serve for reception adequately. But the effects of this delay should be minor in most cases?

    I'm not sure how watty would suspect Group A aerials are better at ch 45 than Group B aerials are at 23. Any gain curves I've seen for yagis show a much steeper decline in gain at shorter wavelengths than designed for, compared to longer wavelengths. Could you elaborate on your point watty?

    I suspect the issues with Clermont Carn stem from Llanddona being co-channel on two PSB muxes. There have been reports of occasional interference on days with good weather.

    The craic with Cairn Hill and Armagh will be interesting at DSO. The change at Holywell Hill looks like a good call to stop the inevitable problems with two PSB muxes co-channel and relatively close to each other.


    One other thing, will the coverage at Mt. Leinster (i.e. the 61dBuV contour) be adjusted slightly due to the use of lower group A frequencies? Going from 666MHz to 510~MHz is a noticeable difference in propagation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    This is great news for a large part of Co. Wexford and surrounding areas, using Ch45 most people would have had to change to a new UHF aerial on analogue switch off.
    Many people may not have been able to afford to do this.
    Leaving the UHF signal on a group A aerial is the correct decision by RTEnl.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭elsie1b


    If digital terrestrial takes off and in the future there proves to be a need for a further multiplex ,what choices of frequencies would then be available to RTENL ,given the frequency changes just announced for Mount Leinster ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭FRIENDO


    I really like the "...been prompted by feedback and requests for same from the main professional aerial installation bodies and are designed to overcome the problem of occasional interference from the UK transmitter Preseli, Wales."
    In simple terms OFCOM jumping up and down.

    Needless to say I'm one happy bunny to be able to look forward to reliable "Dave" etc:D:D:D

    Hopefully we get Challenge back as well, the kids in my house are big fans. We lost Challenge in the last re-tune two months ago.

    I think its also good news for the public and the main professional aerial installation bodies, as it will stop many rogue installers getting involved in making a quick book in changing aerials.
    Like most parts of the country the people of the south east may not have to get new aerials in 2012, they may just need a saorview tv or STB.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    elsie1b wrote: »
    If digital terrestrial takes off and in the future there proves to be a need for a further multiplex ,what choices of frequencies would then be available to RTENL ,given the frequency changes just announced for Mount Leinster ?

    Plenty due to no Analogue in Ireland.

    Three Multiplexes nationally is no problem at all.
    Four is slightly trickier, but feasible (due to loss of 790MHz to 862MHz).


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    elsie1b wrote: »
    If digital terrestrial takes off and in the future there proves to be a need for a further multiplex ,what choices of frequencies would then be available to RTENL ,given the frequency changes just announced for Mount Leinster ?

    According to Comreg, in recent documents, planning for the 4 commercial multiplexes is complete and they were in discussions regarding spectrum for a possible 7th and 8th mux. This was expected to be complete before the end of 2011. Following yesterdays announcement the planning and coordination may be completed.
    The spectrum requirements for DTT in Ireland have also been iscussed with Ofcom. ComReg has provisionally agreed the necessary channel changes for DTT with the UK. ComReg expects the details of this to be concluded before the end of 2011 such that the spectrum requirements for national DTT, in particular any future spectrum requirement for commercial DTT, can be fulfilled using UHF channels 21 to 59 (470 – 782 MHz) only.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Clermont Carn PSB1 changes from ch 53 to ch 52 Clermont carn PSB2 changes from ch 57 to ch 56

    Could have been my imagination but easnt there some plan mooted a few months back to use these channels for new COM multiplexes from Divis :confused:

    Mind you any use of channels above 48 by Divis would be insanity (even if there werent any co/adjacent channel clashes) given that there would be diplexing issues with CC


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Could have been my imagination but easnt there some plan mooted a few months back to use these channels for new COM multiplexes from Divis :confused:

    The planned Muxes 7, 8 and 9 are all in the 30's. The first 6 are in the 20's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭firkin


    The Cush wrote: »
    Retunes at 3 transmitters isn't a great burden.

    The UK has been retuning since 2008 and will continue for a year after ASO over there, into late 2013 clearing UHF channels 61 & 62 affecting 7 million households.

    It's not that the re-tune is the problem its the fact they're only letting us know now. A couple of months back I very nearly bought a new group B antenna for the house. But complicating factors conspired against me (in my favor as it now turns out) and stopped me.

    What annoys me is the crap communication on the topic.

    That Ofcom document you reference says they published their intentions in June 2009 that they'd be making those changes at the end of 2012/2013. That's over 3 years of notice from Ofcom.

    We barely get 11 months notice and tough if you've already installed an antenna.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    firkin wrote: »
    It's not that the re-tune is the problem its the fact they're only letting us know now. A couple of months back I very nearly bought a new group B antenna for the house. But complicating factors conspired against me (in my favor as it now turns out) and stopped me.

    What annoys me is the crap communication on the topic.

    As watty said previously RTÉ recommended back in early 2009 a wideband aerial for reception of both analogue and DTT for Mt Leinster and according to Comreg above DTT coordination with the UK is only being finalised now.

    If there hadn't been pressure from the public, trade and politicians on the matter I've no doubt Chs 39 and 45 would have continued to be used. Also at the time these were planned in the late 90's the conflicting UK On-Digital multiplexes were encrypted and reception of that multiplex wasn't required.
    From the very early stages of planning for DTT in the late 1990’s it became clear that the best solution would be if Mt. Leinster and Preseli shared some channels. That enabled the best fit internally within Ireland, even though it posed challenges for Co. Wexford. The lack of service within the Irish Sea would not be relevant, and the reception of On Digital subscription services within Wexford was also not considered relevant. With a properly aligned aerial, reception of DTT from Mt. Leinster was considered possible even if frequencies were shared with the commercial multiplexes from Preseli.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/Communications/Business+and+Technology/Radio+Communications+and+Radio+Spectrum/DTT+Spectrum+Planning.htm


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    The Cush wrote: »
    If there hadn't been pressure from the public, trade and politicians on the matter I've no doubt Chs 39 and 45 would have continued to be used. Also at the time these were planned in the late 90's the conflicting UK On-Digital multiplexes were encrypted and reception of that multiplex wasn't required.
    There was an opportunity to change these plans for DTV broadcasts from there during RRC-06 surely?

    Though I wouldn't recommend the use of purely Group A aerials for new installs for Mt. Leinster purely because they could use the Group B allocations in the future.

    In the same way, using a group C/D is perhaps not the best idea for Three Rock as it's also allocated Group A frequencies. Though group C/D and group W aerials are somewhat similar in performance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    There was an opportunity to change these plans for DTV broadcasts from there during RRC-06 surely?

    If you remember official comment for the first two years or so said once analogue was switched off in Wales that would be the end of overspill into the SE probably because of the lower ERP of the DTT transmitters. Of course that wasn't to be the case and overspill DTT is probably as good as analogue ever was.

    That coupled with the loss of the Irish analogue channels next Oct would have caused a serious outcry from the general public probably forced them to reassess the situation.


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