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Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

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    #62
    Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭Praetorian


    stevenf17 wrote: »
    Found this presentation on NGN site
    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/downloads/rollout_programme_overview/nga_rollout_presentation.ppt

    Slide 13 shows where there thinking of rolling out FTTC to!

    4 years is a very long time to just catch up with everywhere else in Europe. Anyone put a guess on what such a rollout will cost? Do Eircom have the money?

    Are upc ever going to go anywhere where they currently don't have cable?


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    #63
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    arctan wrote: »
    my point was, if the 38 CCP's were changed over there would be very few existing customers left out of the system upgrade ... obviously Eircom will enable or install new cabs at sites with the most possible connections, hence revenue

    as for 56K, solution wasnt the idea, it was what an awful lot of people could only get/afford in Ireland 10 years ago, and there was no real push for broadband until 2003/2004
    There was no real push for broadband until eircom lowered prices and recognised that people would want broadband sooner or later (Especially as web services inevitably took advantage of the internet more). ISDN was excessively pushed by eircom thanks to the massive amounts TÉ had invested in it and as a result they did not want to drop their strategy and use flat rate pricing.


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    #64
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    To_be_confirmed wrote: »
    There was no real push for broadband until eircom lowered prices and recognised that people would want broadband sooner or later (Especially as web services inevitably took advantage of the internet more). ISDN was excessively pushed by eircom thanks to the massive amounts TÉ had invested in it and as a result they did not want to drop their strategy and use flat rate pricing.

    What pushed Eircom, was Ireland Off Line going to the minister of communications at the time Dermot Ahern and convincing him that he could instruct the Telecoms Regulator to force Eircom to introduce flat rate dial up internet access called FRIACO.

    FRIACO killed Eircoms dial up business model and they dropped the price of ADSL BB from €110 to €55 per month and started a wider roll out of BB almost within weeks of being forced to introduce FRIACO.


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    #65
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    good ol' ISDN ... I remember my science teacher having a dedicated second line for it and saying it's the wave of the future ... two years later broadband was installed and pissed all over it haha


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    #66
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    bk wrote: »
    What pushed Eircom, was Ireland Off Line going to the minister of communications at the time Dermot Ahern and convincing him that he could instruct the Telecoms Regulator to force Eircom to introduce flat rate dial up internet access called FRIACO.

    FRIACO killed Eircoms dial up business model and they dropped the price of ADSL BB from €110 to €55 per month and started a wider roll out of BB almost within weeks of being forced to introduce FRIACO.
    I don't think the uptake of DSL over 2001 to 2006 correlates with the FRIACO announcement. The "surf the summer for free" promotion during the summer of 2004 (if I remember correctly) helped improve takeup more noticeably if you look at the charts of the time.

    Also, I'm open to be corrected with evidence on this part but I thought that soon after residential DSL products became available in the Dublin area, eircom announced it would be expanded to cover all "towns" (population centres >1500 people) in Ireland and that it was only some amount of time after that was completed that we saw moves to enable larger villages around Ireland. And it wasn't until Babcock and Brown / Piere Danon that any real kind of effort was made to deal with pairgains and decrepit plant maintenance (2006 to economic recession).


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    #67
    Liamario
    Registered Users Posts: 2,094 ✭✭✭Liamario


    Is line rental included in those prices?


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    #68
    Contrarian
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Contrarian


    there is no PSTN line involved in the stand alone fibre packages. The fibre & voice bundles start at € 40 for 25Mb and free weekend calls over VoIP so again no line rental is involved. You can however decide to keep your PSTN line open seperately if you wanted to get 2 bills!


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    #69
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Contrarian wrote: »
    there is no PSTN line involved in the stand alone fibre packages. The fibre & voice bundles start at € 40 for 25Mb and free weekend calls over VoIP so again no line rental is involved. You can however decide to keep your PSTN line open seperately if you wanted to get 2 bills!

    As opposed to:

    http://www.upc.ie/deals/favourites/


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    #70
    Contrarian
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Contrarian


    Looking at that, the UPC entry level package is 50c more expensive but you get off peak calls all week and international calls if you are so inclined. This is on a contended network however of 17:1 and from my experience telco grade VoIP would also be a superior offering.


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    #71
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Contrarian wrote: »
    Looking at that, the UPC entry level package is 50c more expensive but you get off peak calls all week and international calls if you are so inclined. This is on a contended network however of 17:1 and from my experience telco grade VoIP would also be a superior offering.

    Define Telco grade. I've got VoIP from Blueface over UPC Broadband and it's perfect.:) And 30 Megs BB at all times. Doesn't get much better.


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    #72
    Contrarian
    Registered Users Posts: 27 ✭Contrarian


    Telco or Carrier-grade means that when you dial a number, you get through to the number you dialed. It means that when you finish dialing, the phone at the other end starts ringing within two to three seconds. It means that
    when someone answers and conversation takes place, the speech quality is very high, without any perceptible echo, noticeable delay, or annoying noise on the line.
    In terms of the network, these requirements translate to systems that are fully redundant, in some cases self-healing, highly scalable, and manageable. They mean compliance with numerous technical specifications to ensure interoperability with other networks. They also imply a highly skilled network maintenance organization, on duty around the clock, and ready to respond to a network problem in an instant.


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    #73
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    arctan wrote: »
    my point was, if the 38 CCP's were changed over there would be very few existing customers left out of the system upgrade ... obviously Eircom will enable or install new cabs at sites with the most possible connections, hence revenue
    All i would ask is that the cab on The edge of Letterkenny be an ADSL2 AND A VDSL CAB...in order to drive longhaul on existing copper.


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    #74
    jay93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭jay93


    ADSL is such a crap tech tough.

    Yeah VDSL and ADSL2 other than that plain auld ADSL aint great also the limitation and length of most Eircom lines in Ireland makes them worse than the likes of Wireless and 3G.


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    #75
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Contrarian wrote: »
    Telco or Carrier-grade means that when you dial a number, you get through to the number you dialed. It means that when you finish dialing, the phone at the other end starts ringing within two to three seconds. It means that
    when someone answers and conversation takes place, the speech quality is very high, without any perceptible echo, noticeable delay, or annoying noise on the line.
    In terms of the network, these requirements translate to systems that are fully redundant, in some cases self-healing, highly scalable, and manageable. They mean compliance with numerous technical specifications to ensure interoperability with other networks. They also imply a highly skilled network maintenance organization, on duty around the clock, and ready to respond to a network problem in an instant.

    Sounds definitely like Blueface to me.:D I also made a call on a UPC landline the other day. Equally as good. So all of Eircom's systems are fully redundant then?


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    #76
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    Contrarian wrote: »
    Telco or Carrier-grade means that when you dial a number, you get through to the number you dialed. It means that when you finish dialing, the phone at the other end starts ringing within two to three seconds. It means that
    when someone answers and conversation takes place, the speech quality is very high, without any perceptible echo, noticeable delay, or annoying noise on the line.
    In terms of the network, these requirements translate to systems that are fully redundant, in some cases self-healing, highly scalable, and manageable. They mean compliance with numerous technical specifications to ensure interoperability with other networks. They also imply a highly skilled network maintenance organization, on duty around the clock, and ready to respond to a network problem in an instant.


    they also have power back up so when the ESB goes the network doesnt go with it ;)


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    #77
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    jay93 wrote: »
    ADSL is such a crap tech tough.

    Yeah VDSL and ADSL2 other than that plain auld ADSL aint great also the limitation and length of most Eircom lines in Ireland makes them worse than the likes of Wireless and 3G.


    I really do think that this whole speed thing is one big delusion when comparing wireless to fixed .... especially when the wireless has ridiculous ping times (normal is what, 100 -150 ms if in good coverage ?) but as long as most people have 7 or so megs in their speed test they're happy :pac:


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    #78
    daffy_duc
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭daffy_duc


    arctan wrote: »
    especially when the wireless has ridiculous ping times (normal is what, 100 -150 ms if in good coverage ?)

    Careful now, you're writing off an entire concept based on a single implementation.
    My wireless link at home has better ping times than my FTTH link.

    Don't you know that High Frequency trading firms are starting to look into using Wireless because the latency is lower than fibre?


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    #79
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    always open to correction ! what system are you using and who is your FTTH provider ? curious now


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    #80
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    arctan wrote: »
    especially when the wireless has ridiculous ping times (normal is what, 100 -150 ms if in good coverage ?)

    You are confusing mobile with fixed wireless which while superficially similar technologies are really two different things entirely. A good FWA installation can have excellent ping times sometimes even better than your average DSL or cable connection. Mobile has miserable ping times that is true.


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    #81
    daffy_duc
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭daffy_duc


    arctan wrote: »
    always open to correction ! what system are you using and who is your FTTH provider ? curious now

    IBB Breeze 6MB has lower latencies than my Magnet FTTH 150mbit


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    #82
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    sort of generalised, apologies, my statement was in regards to the likes of your o2, 3g, meteor wireless broadband etc...

    FWA will be obsolete by the summer, FCS is replacing it (essentially meteor broadband)


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    #83
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    daffy_duc wrote: »
    IBB Breeze 6MB has lower latencies than my Magnet FTTH 150mbit


    interesting ... would love to have a sit down and see what's going on there alright ...

    the Magnet FTTH ... is it on Magnet's network, or one of the Eircom FTTH trial areas ?

    ping wise, what are the times you'd be looking at ?


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    #84
    bealtine
    Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    arctan wrote: »
    sort of generalised, apologies, my statement was in regards to the likes of your o2, 3g, meteor wireless broadband etc...

    FWA will be obsolete by the summer, FCS is replacing it (essentially meteor broadband)

    What's FCS? Any form of mobile technology is plagued by high pings and uncontrolled contention. Just look at imagine wimax with it's ridiculously erratic ping times.


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    #85
    arctan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭arctan


    Fixed cellular solution,

    again this is from Eircom's perspective, they're selling off their spectrum allocation for FWA ....

    you'll still get certain types of FWA from independent operators


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    #86
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    There's a lot of confusion out there about wireless technologies.

    I know I've spoken to people who were completely amazed that FWA existed and had assumed broadband had to come through your landline to be any good.

    There are many cases, particularly in rural areas, but also in marginal areas of big cities/towns where FWA is FAR superior to DSL if you're on a long line / edge of an exchange's served area.


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    #87
    funnyname
    Registered Users Posts: 1,744 ✭✭✭funnyname


    arctan wrote: »
    sort of generalised, apologies, my statement was in regards to the likes of your o2, 3g, meteor wireless broadband etc...

    FWA will be obsolete by the summer, FCS is replacing it (essentially meteor broadband)

    So is that fwa that eircom provided will be gone or all fwa providers?


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    #88
    daffy_duc
    Registered Users Posts: 194 ✭✭daffy_duc


    arctan wrote: »
    the Magnet FTTH ... is it on Magnet's network, or one of the Eircom FTTH trial areas ?
    ping wise, what are the times you'd be looking at ?

    Yep, Eircom FTTH wholesaled by Magnet.
    To keep things fair, pings to INEX on each differ by around 8ms. With the FTTH being highest at about 11ms.


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    #89
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,457 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Contrarian wrote: »
    Looking at that, the UPC entry level package is 50c more expensive but you get off peak calls all week and international calls if you are so inclined. This is on a contended network however of 17:1 and from my experience telco grade VoIP would also be a superior offering.

    Lots of misinformation here.

    First of all, all internet networks are contended. Yes even Eircoms FTTC. While Eircom FTTC won't have contention on the last mile due to being point to point, it will certainly have contention in the backhaul network, switches, international transit, etc.

    Ironically Eircoms FTTH is not actually point to point in the last mile, it is actually point to multipoint and is similar to cable in the last mile and therefore also has contention in the last mile.

    Contention in itself isn't a bad thing, in fact it is a good thing, the question should be, is the contention well managed so the customer never notices it.

    As for telco grade VoIP, while UPC maybe a cableco, I can assure you they are using "telco" grade VoIP hardware similar to Eircom.

    Remember UPC is one of the largest telcos in Europe, much larger then Eircom, they know what they are doing.


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    #90
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    eircoms FTTC plans are as extensive as 200 exchanges and nearly all of them in urbanisations of 5000 or more. They may throw in a few extras as a sop with which to haggle for government funding for sub 5000 person urbanisations and rural areas.

    The program will not reach as widely as the current ADSL2+ program which is nearing completion.

    FCS is a POTS only solution. It is supplie instead of copper and it does not supply anything faster than dialup ( over GPRS or EDGE). Complete rubbish. :(


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    #91
    Solair
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭Solair


    funnyname wrote: »
    So is that fwa that eircom provided will be gone or all fwa providers?

    It's whatever eircom were providing. I didn't even think they really bothered much with FWA, even though they had licenses for it.

    I can assure, the other FWA companies are here to stay. Just bear in mind that they use different technologies and offer quite drastically different service.


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