The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) SPOILERS for all books & future books

Mr Freeze · 09-07-2013 3:43pm #1

The Winds of Winters isn't out yet, and might not be for years yet, but that can't stop us talking about it and its sample chapters, and making our own predictions.

This thread is for discussion of The Winds of Winter, in particular the spoiler material available through chapter readings at conventions, etc.

General discussion about the book series, including general speculation about what characters might do in future, how the series might end, etc. is welcome here also.

No need for spoiler tags here, if you haven't read all books and/or the sample chapters released, dread softly.

Mr Freeze · 09-07-2013 3:43pm

Sample Chapters:
Victarion
Arianne
Barristan
Theon
Mercy

09-07-2013 3:47pm

Post 15 on the Barristan one is definitely worth a full read! I loved his chapters in ADWD and it looks like he's going to have more in WOW. With the Iron Fleet arriving I wonder how that is going to go down along with Tyrion's arrival. I think Barristan might know of Tyrion's true heritage if anyone(if that's what GRRM is planning)& he could reveal that very early in the books. Otherwise Dany has no choice but to execute a Lannister? I know he killed Tywin but still Tyrion has to have something protecting him to get through this book.

Mr Freeze · 09-07-2013 3:50pm

From the Barriston Reading:

[GRRM pointed out that these were, of course, Victarion's men and made a comment about Tyrion currently being quite miserable.]

I like this, I am guessing that after all Tyrion's dealings with the sellswords, and things beginning to look up for him, Victarion lands, and smashes them.

Ya, can definitely see Tyrion ending up as Barriston's prisoner.

Son0vagun · 09-07-2013 4:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I know he killed Tywin but still Tyrion has to have something protecting him to get through this book.

Ah but did he really kill Tywin? If he did, that would make him Kinslayer and cursed in the eyes of the Gods. He was merely putting Tywin out of his misery!

From want I heard, TWoW starts with a huge battle that rages on for 100s of pages. GRRM spoke to Bernard Cornwell about writing such scenes. Ser Barriston and Victorion are the best PoV to do this! I haven't read any sample chapters apart from Theons!

Mr Freeze · 09-07-2013 4:48pm

Son0vagun wrote: »

From want I heard, TWoW starts with a huge battle that rages on for 100s of pages.

That sounds brilliant...

No way is the battle in Meereen going to sorted in a few chapters, it could go on for ages, and rightly so, it definitely needs to liven up.

The Barriston sample chapters describe some of the battle, worth a read, its only a summary of what Martin read out at some show, buts its a great preview of how the Battle in Meereen is going to go down.

09-07-2013 4:52pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

buts its a great preview of how the Battle in Meereen is going to go down.

And how ****ing cool Barry is!

Mr Freeze · 09-07-2013 4:58pm

Deleted User wrote: »

And how ****ing cool Barry is!

He was a lot cooler before you called him "Barry". :pac:

Ya, he is class.
Some POV character isn't going to survive this Meereen battle, I suspect Barriston will not leave Meereen.

09-07-2013 5:04pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, he is class.
Some POV character isn't going to survive this Meereen battle, I suspect Barriston will not leave Meereen.

You might well be right but I hope not. From those two chapters GRRM really is building him up for a fall isn't he.... It would be great to see him going back to Westeros and fighting Jamie at some point. I do agree though someone in Mereen has to go, I don't see them killing off another new character quickly so it's going to be Tyrion, Dany or Barristan isn't it? Can't see GRRM getting rid of his favorite character now or Dany... let's hope we're wrong but other forums all think the same thing. Could we not get away with it being Penny? :pac:

Gbear · 10-07-2013 12:39am

Victarion seemed kinda pointless. Yeah, he was a badass, but we have a good few of them in the books.

Having his hand seared off and replaced with some sort of superstrong skeletal demon-hand could set some interesting things in motion though.

It's quite clear that if he tries to take Dany by force she'll **** him up good and proper, or rather Drogon will. In general I don't think that the way of the Iron Born (the Iron Way, the Iron Price, something like that), is compatible with Dany's "free all the slaves" motto.
Also, Euron's wizard could be Pyat Pree so clearly that would set him against Dany.

I'd be astonished if he dragged Tyrion half way across the world just to kill him.

They can have maybe 3 POV's in Dany's entourage, including Dany. They've done that before. They might also stop being POV for some characters. Dunno has GRRM done that before (deaths notwithstanding).

Mr Freeze · 10-07-2013 8:45am

Gbear wrote: »

I'd be astonished if he dragged Tyrion half way across the world just to kill him.

They can have maybe 3 POV's in Dany's entourage, including Dany. They've done that before. They might also stop being POV for some characters. Dunno has GRRM done that before (deaths notwithstanding).

Tyrion is probably safe. Victarion & Barriston are not, unless GRRMs comment about, when a character gets a named chapter, it means something. (like you definitely aren't safe when you get named chapter).

Looks like Victarion & Barriston are getting named chapters in TWOW.

POV characters that I fully expect to die in the next book are Theon, Victarion & Barriston.

He has said that he needs to start killing characters, that he has too many POVs.

Walt Grace · 10-07-2013 11:07am

I hope GRRM kills off all the Iron born! :rolleyes:
Just have never liked their chapters, right from the beginning.

10-07-2013 11:44am

Walt Grace wrote: »

I hope GRRM kills off all the Iron born! :rolleyes:
Just have never liked their chapters, right from the beginning.

I think he plans to do the opposite as he loves the shock factor. We shall see anyway

Mr Freeze · 10-07-2013 11:54am

Walt Grace wrote: »

I hope GRRM kills off all the Iron born! :rolleyes:
Just have never liked their chapters, right from the beginning.

There will be loads of POV deaths in book 6 i'd say, but no way will be kill off all the Ironborn, he spent 2 books building up multiple Greyjoy characters, they are around to stay for another book anyways.

I actually can't wait to see what Euron was up to, and if him and Victarion end up clashing.

Walt Grace · 10-07-2013 12:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I think he plans to do the opposite as he loves the shock factor. We shall see anyway

Oh no doubt at the end of the series only all the characters we hate will be alive! :mad:

Here's hoping book 6 is an improvemnet on the previous 2 anyway. If he really does plan to finish the series in 7 he really needs to start putting the end game in place now.

Gbear · 10-07-2013 12:47pm

Walt Grace wrote: »

Oh no doubt at the end of the series only all the characters we hate will be alive! :mad:

Here's hoping book 6 is an improvemnet on the previous 2 anyway. If he really does plan to finish the series in 7 he really needs to start putting the end game in place now.

There's the bones of a good book between Feast and Dance - if you binned about 3/4 of it.

A few hundred pages could've been saved with less food and boiled leather alone.

Walt Grace · 10-07-2013 2:51pm

Gbear wrote: »

There's the bones of a good book between Feast and Dance - if you binned about 3/4 of it.

A few hundred pages could've been saved with less food and boiled leather alone.

Dance was a bit better than Feast but still not a patch on the first three.
Really hope GRRM gets back in his groove for the 6th book. Guess maybe he shouldn't have killed off so many of the interesting characters in the first 3 books!

11-07-2013 12:46pm

Really great article, enjoy

http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate/

Sleepy · 11-07-2013 9:35pm

One of the best articles I've read on TWOW to date...

Mr.Prodston · 11-07-2013 10:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Really great article, enjoy

http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate/

It was genuinely a pleasure to read that, and hard to argue with most of it too.

11-07-2013 11:09pm

So did I, glad to share it

I was shocked by how sure he felt that Jon has warged in to ghost & he seems to know what he is talking about... some other great insights but that one shocked me the most. There is so much potential for the WOW....

That forum has been a disaster for me I can't stop reading it in work haha. Another topic about the hound has been very interesting, people on their are nearly 100% he is alive and well, which has me very happy. That bloody grave digger I didn't even cop it myself while reading, the description and the fact he was being described in so much details happened for a reason... Sandor to come back to do good would just be amazing.

All we now is Hodor to be the knight of the faith vs Robert Strong and we're set....

Sleepy · 11-07-2013 11:21pm

I've read most of the same theories elsewhere and would subscribe to more than a few of them myself. Great to see them all gathered together like that though!

Mr Freeze · 12-07-2013 9:50am

Deleted User wrote: »

That bloody grave digger I didn't even cop it myself while reading, the description and the fact he was being described in so much details happened for a reason... Sandor to come back to do good would just be amazing.

Brilliant Article, indeed.

Ya, copped that at the time about The Hound, the description is very hound like(if you want it to be, could also be nothing). There is even a dog beside the grave digger in that chapter.

The other thing I noticed was they had The Hounds horse, that horse was wild and only he could control it, so those brothers wouldn't have been fit to catch and bring the horse back with out The Hound (we can assume).

From the article, the authors dislike for Jon was a surprise. I really hope the warging theory isn't true, I'd much prefer him not to die from the wounds. Don't know where the Melisandre is an undead theory came from, never picked up on that at all.

Daenerys, the obvious thing is that she makes it back to Westeros with her army and dragons and fights the White Walkers, but GRRM doesn't do obvious, do you think she might not back it back at all? or only as far as Braavos to where she grew up?

It would seem like a massive waste of pages if she doesn't have some part to play in Westeros.

22-07-2013 10:54am

I think this book is going to be an absolute bloodbath. There will be nothing like it in fiction and I truly think it will be so epic that most of us will get through the book very quickly because of the sheer pace of it. I think it might be better to look it from the perspective of who will live(or has to with the amount of effort put in to where they are now);

Bran - An obvious one I see him being there until the very end. I have loved his chapters ever since the first book when he is waking up after the fall. I believe the company Bran is currently with are actually on the side of the Others. I also think Benjen will pop up here at some point too be it as Coldhands or whoever.

Hodor - Hodor

Jon - I really think Jon is going to or has warged in to ghost. They have talked about it so much in the books that it makes sense for it to happen to one of the main characters. After he has done this I can see him meeting up with Bran at some point.

Jaime - I just can't see him being killed off with the redemption he has shown. All those mentions of his sparring with Payne make me believe that he has a big duel coming up and it will probably be against Brienne who he will kill. Again I think he'll be there until the end.

Tyrion - GRRM's favorite character and with the story the way it is he surely has to return to Westeros to claim the Rock. I do believe he will meet Jaime again at some point too.

Danery's - I believe she will take back the Iron Throne. I think there will be a few twists along the way but I think she is the one to be sitting on the throne when the final battle with the Others happen.

Victorian - I can see him taking Danery's back to Westeros, I know that might be too obvious but it's the only thing that makes any sense. I also think he will kill Barristan in this book as much as it saddens me

. I think after getting Dany back to Westeros he will be return to the Iron Islands where a huge battle will happen amongst the Ironborn, with Aeron claiming victory with the introduction of krakens or an alliance with the others. **** will go down there anyway, it has to otherwise the whole part of the story is pointless!

Sansa - I can see her being there until the end and I think she will kill Petyr or have him killed after telling the truth about what happened to Lysa.

Ayra - I can see her coming back to Westeros. I think she'll go to Kings Landing, all the chapters in book 1 where she learns her way around the tunnel systems will be some assistance to an assassin, that could be pretty cool if GRRM goes down this route.

Arianne - She'l join up with Aegon and I can see a battle between Dorne and the Reach happening in the next book which Aegon will be killed in maybe by Loras(if his injuries aren't as genuine as a lot think). I can see the Tyrells being wiped off the face of Westeros.

I see anyone else as expendable and could easily die in this book. Either way I really think this book might well be the best of the series, here's hoping! Winter is coming

Mr Freeze · 22-07-2013 11:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

Arianne - She'l join up with Aegon and I can see a battle between Dorne and the Reach happening in the next book which Aegon will be killed in maybe by Loras(if his injuries aren't as genuine as a lot think). I can see the Tyrells being wiped off the face of Westeros.

Before or after Cersei's death or end in the series?

I would hate for her to be around to see the end of the Tyrells.

22-07-2013 11:25am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Before or after Cersei's death or end in the series?

I would hate for her to be around to see the end of the Tyrells.

After, I can actually see Robert Strong losing the trial by combat or him winning and then revealing he's actually dead which makes the High Septon sentence her to death anyway. Being beheaded in the same spot poor Ned was

Mr Freeze · 22-07-2013 11:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

After, I can actually see Robert Strong losing the trial by combat or him winning and then revealing he's actually dead which makes the High Septon sentence her to death anyway. Being beheaded in the same spot poor Ned

I'd subscribe to that.

Gbear · 22-07-2013 6:44pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Jon - I really think Jon is going to or has warged in to ghost. They have talked about it so much in the books that it makes sense for it to happen to one of the main characters. After he has done this I can see him meeting up with Bran at some point.

I was thinking about him (being in the process of reading his last chapter) and Coldhands.

Could the solution lie perhaps in Jon dying, warging into Ghost and then back into his body after it is reanimated as a wight?

Could Coldhands be the body of some wight that someone commandeered as they died? Maybe Benjen? Although I'd imagine that if Coldhands was Benjen, either physically or the warged consciousness I don't see why he wouldn't have revealed himself to Bran.

Deleted User wrote: »

After, I can actually see Robert Strong losing the trial by combat or him winning and then revealing he's actually dead which makes the High Septon sentence her to death anyway. Being beheaded in the same spot poor Ned was

Well isn't there still the whole prophecy about getting killed by who she thinks is Tyrion but it could be anyone I suppose (given the nature of prophecies) and isn't another part of it that her children will all die before her?

22-07-2013 7:04pm

Gbear wrote: »

I was thinking about him (being in the process of reading his last chapter) and Coldhands.

Could the solution lie perhaps in Jon dying, warging into Ghost and then back into his body after it is reanimated as a wight?

Could Coldhands be the body of some wight that someone commandeered as they died? Maybe Benjen? Although I'd imagine that if Coldhands was Benjen, either physically or the warged consciousness I don't see why he wouldn't have revealed himself to Bran.

Well isn't there still the whole prophecy about getting killed by who she thinks is Tyrion but it could be anyone I suppose (given the nature of prophecies) and isn't another part of it that her children will all die before her?

No doubt there is holes throughout my theories

but that's just came to the top of my head when doing an overview of what I think will happen. I don't see Cersei lasting much longer at all so yeah something could happen to her children as the prophecy stated.

December2012 · 22-07-2013 7:16pm

Gbear wrote: »

I was thinking about him (being in the process of reading his last chapter) and Coldhands.

Could the solution lie perhaps in Jon dying, warging into Ghost and then back into his body after it is reanimated as a wight?

Could Coldhands be the body of some wight that someone commandeered as they died? Maybe Benjen? Although I'd imagine that if Coldhands was Benjen, either physically or the warged consciousness I don't see why he wouldn't have revealed himself to Bran.

Well isn't there still the whole prophecy about getting killed by who she thinks is Tyrion but it could be anyone I suppose (given the nature of prophecies) and isn't another part of it that her children will all die before her?

It is prophesied that Cersei will be killed by her younger brother and that's why she hates and fears Tyrion.

It should be noted that Jaime was born after her.........

podgemonster · 23-07-2013 11:33am

December2012 wrote: »

It is prophesied that Cersei will be killed by her younger brother and that's why she hates and fears Tyrion.

It should be noted that Jaime was born after her.........

Yes pretty sure Jaime will kill her. I believe she is close to madness by the end of Dance and her mental instability will immediately undo all the good work Kevan has done and playing right into Varys hands.

I think Jaime with a heavy heart will do her great mercy and smother her before she destroys the realm.

This would however would require Jaime to somehow escape Stonehearts trap, hopefully by showing that he is no longer the smug knight he once was and through his actions in feast prove to Stoneheart he is a changed man.

More than likely i think Brienne in a mirror of Jaime actions to stab the mad king will kill Stoneheart to echo the sentiment that some oaths should be broken to protect the innocent when the person you serve has become corrupted. Also I think Podrick is still alive.

The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) **SPOILERS for all books & future books**

Comments

The Winds of Winter (Book 6 Discussion) SPOILERS for all books & future books