STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

torres3011 · 09-12-2011 12:01pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) I have worked out you need a 11.8kw back boiler stove and around 3.8kw to the room.
If one of the 8 rads is one of the ones in the living room then the stove will be fine to heat the house although at it's max rated boiler output:D. The room output is 2.2 kilowat so if no rad in living room a small 1kw would be wise to plumb in.
With the odd thermostatic radiator valves fitted it will be fine:) It's better to burn a stove hard than to slumber. Less flue deposits and more efficient.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks again Stove Fan,

Sounds like ive just enough ooommppphh in that case

.

Just so im clear though, you reckon I should get rid of the rad in the room where the fire is? The rad that's there at the minute is an old single 1100 x 500 rad and it's one of the 8 counted.

What do you mean when you say "if no rad in living room a small 1kw would be wise to plumb in." ?

Is 2.2 enough for the sitting room do you think?

Also do you reckon im buying the right one for my budget or is there another inset could do the same job?

Another thing is that my telly is over the fireplace at the moment, I am putting back up the surround and fireplace when the stoves fitted. Do you think id get away with putting the telly back up or will i have to move it somewhere else? Would much of the heat travel
directly up if you know what i mean.

Sorry for all the questions boss man, it's just great to get unbiased advice for a change.:D

Stove Fan · 09-12-2011 4:03pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Thanks again Stove Fan,

Sounds like ive just enough ooommppphh in that case .

Just so im clear though, you reckon I should get rid of the rad in the room where the fire is? The rad that's there at the minute is an old single 1100 x 500 rad and it's one of the 8 counted.

What do you mean when you say "if no rad in living room a small 1kw would be wise to plumb in." ?

Is 2.2 enough for the sitting room do you think?

Also do you reckon im buying the right one for my budget or is there another inset could do the same job?

Another thing is that my telly is over the fireplace at the moment, I am putting back up the surround and fireplace when the stoves fitted. Do you think id get away with putting the telly back up or will i have to move it somewhere else? Would much of the heat travel
directly up if you know what i mean.

Sorry for all the questions boss man, it's just great to get unbiased advice for a change.:D

Hi:) there are not many inset boiler stoves with a decent sized back boiler and charnwood is a good make with a good output boiler. There is this but there isn't any saving as the two stoves are around £1200 and 1300 in the UK.
http://esse.com/multifuel-stoves/350gs/
http://www.qualitystoves.co.uk/esse-greenswitch-multifuel-boiler-inset-stove-p-482.html

The charnwood I would say is the more tried and tested model. The esse GS though may suit you better as it has a bit extra capacity to run 1-2 extra rads, Usefull if you want to extend. The gs is more modern looking.

No keep the rad. As the stove only produces 2.2kw of heat to the room and you need 3.6kw to adequately heat the room then you will need a rad in there to boost the heat to the required temperature.

I was saying to fit a 1kw rad in there as I didn't know if there was one in the room already. I would fit a thermostatic rad valve on this rad in the living room.

There will be 2.2kw of heat rising up from the inset stove, it may not affect it but it may do. You can only try it really, but most would say to move it to a new location. The chimneybreast above the fireplace may get warm.

Stove Fan:)

torres3011 · 09-12-2011 4:44pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) there are not many inset boiler stoves with a decent sized back boiler and charnwood is a good make with a good output boiler. There is this but there isn't any saving as the two stoves are around £1200 and 1300 in the UK.
http://esse.com/multifuel-stoves/350gs/
http://www.qualitystoves.co.uk/esse-greenswitch-multifuel-boiler-inset-stove-p-482.html

The charnwood I would say is the more tried and tested model. The esse GS though may suit you better as it has a bit extra capacity to run 1-2 extra rads, Usefull if you want to extend. The gs is more modern looking.

No keep the rad. As the stove only produces 2.2kw of heat to the room and you need 3.6kw to adequately heat the room then you will need a rad in there to boost the heat to the required temperature.

I was saying to fit a 1kw rad in there as I didn't know if there was one in the room already. I would fit a thermostatic rad valve on this rad in the living room.

There will be 2.2kw of heat rising up from the inset stove, it may not affect it but it may do. You can only try it really, but most would say to move it to a new location. The chimneybreast above the fireplace may get warm.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks a million Stove Fan,

Some food for thought there for me. I like the look of the Esse 350GS and the output to the room is a bit better as well.

Am going to send a few mails off to get the best price i can on both and then take the plunge.

Thanks very much for you help and info, much appreciated.

Will let everybody here know how i get on once ive had one fitted.

Reyman · 10-12-2011 6:15pm

torres3011 wrote: »

Thanks a million Stove Fan,

Some food for thought there for me. I like the look of the Esse 350GS and the output to the room is a bit better as well.

Am going to send a few mails off to get the best price i can on both and then take the plunge.

Thanks very much for you help and info, much appreciated.

Will let everybody here know how i get on once ive had one fitted.

Hi Torres,
If you check back a couple of weeks you'll see that JMSE has installed the large Esse stove (350GS) recently - it might be a good idea to see how he's getting on with it, before you make a decision

JMSE · 10-12-2011 7:43pm

Esse 350GS up and running in '83 3 bed semi with v good downstairs insulation and very poor upstairs insulation, and the result..............amazing.

edit...
<snip> Cant get over how good it is, am burning timber only, oh lots of nails too but they dont burn well. Its highly adjustable with the thermostatic 1-10 setting, and then the circular damper to override the thermoswitch is very effective. With the fire up and running you can practically control it like a gas fire, but maybe thats the way with all stoves. We never used the upstairs rads coz I'm a scab but we have the whole lot on now and the house is really warm. Ten out of ten, and as Ross O'C might say, 'fair focks in fairness'.

goat2 · 10-12-2011 10:48pm

i bought one of those eco fans, that you sit on top of the stove, it automatically works when the stove top get hot, it pushes the warm air around the room rather than it going to the ceiling, i already find the sitting room roasting, family saying it is too warm now

Qualitymark · 11-12-2011 8:12am

goat2 wrote: »

i bought one of those eco fans, that you sit on top of the stove, it automatically works when the stove top get hot, it pushes the warm air around the room rather than it going to the ceiling, i already find the sitting room roasting, family saying it is too warm now

Also very pretty

madrab · 11-12-2011 5:24pm

I just recently had a wanders Square 60 stove installed into my front room& I'm not sure if it hasn't been installed correctly or if there is something wrong with it as there doesn't seem to be much heat that coming out of the fire.
The fire burns good, & the vent seem to work. The installers came out on friday and changed the baffle around (from the manual it looked to be in the wrong way, but the guy said that it is adjustable depending on the strength of the flu/size of the chimney) & this is putting a bit more heat out into the room but I'm still sitting on the couch (10ft from the fireplace) with the fire lit & I'm barely feeling the heat

the wall above the fire is very hot, it seems to be absorbing a lot of the het, is that normal?

Is it just me or does it sound like something is wrong with the fire?

doherta5 · 11-12-2011 7:10pm

Without wishing to load this thread with questions, I was wondering if I might be able to ask if anyone has completely replaced their oil burners with a multi-fuel stove? Given the cost of oil these days and my impending emigration, I was hoping to get a bit of energy security of supply into the homeplace before I go and was thinking that a stove would be the best way to go about it.

A further point to mention is that the house is c35 years old 4-bed bungalow and plumbed with gunbarrel, which has silted up one circuit and caused us to put in a qualpex workaround. The other two circuits (living area and bedrooms) are beginning to do the same but I'm a bit wary of flushing them out with cleaning agent.

Could anyone give me some advice? Many thanks...

Qualitymark · 11-12-2011 7:13pm

Sounds a bit dicey, madrab, but I defer to Stove_Fan's expertise. But I've just gone and put my hand on the chimneypiece above my stove. Three inches above the place where the flue disappears into the chimney, the wall is quite cool, and the stove (a Clearview Pioneer 400P) is throwing out great heat.

This page http://www.wanders.com/en/ has a manual (there's a button each for the wood and gas stoves) at the bottom, which may help to clear up your questions about the baffle; I'd also be inclined to phone the company, or email them (info@wanders.nl) for advice.

Stove Fan · 11-12-2011 8:14pm

madrab wrote: »

I just recently had a wanders Square 60 stove installed into my front room& I'm not sure if it hasn't been installed correctly or if there is something wrong with it as there doesn't seem to be much heat that coming out of the fire.
The fire burns good, & the vent seem to work. The installers came out on friday and changed the baffle around (from the manual it looked to be in the wrong way, but the guy said that it is adjustable depending on the strength of the flu/size of the chimney) & this is putting a bit more heat out into the room but I'm still sitting on the couch (10ft from the fireplace) with the fire lit & I'm barely feeling the heat

the wall above the fire is very hot, it seems to be absorbing a lot of the het, is that normal?

Is it just me or does it sound like something is wrong with the fire?

Hi:) I have had a look at their installation instructions and some of their suggested methods wouldn't be allowed here, shared flues for instance. I though the instructions were quite poor.

It seems like the unit is more suited to be sited and then a false chimney breast built around it with ventilation top and bottom to let the heat escape, rather than inset into a masonry opening.

I would give the company an email/ call as said and ask them to send you or say how it should be installed into a masonry chimney.

The usual way is to fit the unit to the wall with a rope seal and bolts and backfill the voids at the rear/sides by pouring vermiculite/sand mixture through the stoves flue exit so that it fills all voids and also covers the top of the inset. This stops all the heat from escaping up the chimney.

I would definately contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

Stove Fan:)

Discodog · 11-12-2011 8:29pm

I am looking into small freestanding multifuel stoves. The room is only 12ft x 10ft so space is at a premium. I would be burning coal & I am looking for a stove that will easily do an overnight low burn.

Needless to say I want to do this as cheaply as possible - I may be moving at any time. Any suggestions.

Stove Fan · 11-12-2011 8:31pm

doherta5 wrote: »

Without wishing to load this thread with questions, I was wondering if I might be able to ask if anyone has completely replaced their oil burners with a multi-fuel stove? Given the cost of oil these days and my impending emigration, I was hoping to get a bit of energy security of supply into the homeplace before I go and was thinking that a stove would be the best way to go about it.

A further point to mention is that the house is c35 years old 4-bed bungalow and plumbed with gunbarrel, which has silted up one circuit and caused us to put in a qualpex workaround. The other two circuits (living area and bedrooms) are beginning to do the same but I'm a bit wary of flushing them out with cleaning agent.

Could anyone give me some advice? Many thanks...

Hi:) We have in the past ripped out a 12 month old oil boiler and replaced it with a woodburning stove with back boiler. It was cheaper to run as where we lived in France wood was very cheap to buy. About a 50% saving.

Here I think coal is definately cheaper than the wood but dirty and have to empty the ashes every day rather than once a week.

We only have a villager boiler stove here in Ireland heating the rads and hot water. It's a good stove and it is cheaper to run than oil for us as we use it a lot. We spend 650 euros on coal last winter and used it over 7 months. 105sqm detatched older style bungalow.
I would never go back to oil but for the more elderly generation the convenience of a flick of a switch I would consider linking the old oil boiler and new boiler stove together. The best of both then:)

I would try powerflushing and chemical cleaning as if it works great but at the worst case your going to have to do something anyway if it's starting to not heat up efficiently. You could have the stove installed at the same time.

I would be tempted if flushing/cleaning doesn't work is to re pipe anyway surface mounted with pipework dropped down from the loft. This is how my house is plumbed.

Stove Fan:)

Stove Fan · 11-12-2011 9:09pm

Discodog wrote: »

I am looking into small freestanding multifuel stoves. The room is only 12ft x 10ft so space is at a premium. I would be burning coal & I am looking for a stove that will easily do an overnight low burn.

Needless to say I want to do this as cheaply as possible - I may be moving at any time. Any suggestions.

Hi:) You are really looking for a very small 3kw stove. I would consider these if not over budget.

Hunter Hawk3
Aarrow acorn 4
Villager puffin.

There are many stoves on donedeal for a few hundred euros that would be cheaper and may do a good job in the mean time until you move. They are imported from China and the quality may be very random. If you go this route please view the stove.

Or buy a dearer stove and take it with you:) If this is the case buy Morso, Charnwood or Dunsley.

Stove Fan:)

Discodog · 11-12-2011 9:12pm

I have seen some small Stanley's in the DIY sheds for around €400. My concern is to get a proper multifuel with a decent coal grate. I had a big stove with back boiler years ago & I managed to bend the grate bars :eek:

goat2 · 11-12-2011 10:09pm

i am wondering if my oil boiler is losing its effeciency, because if i leave on all radiators and someone goes for a bath the water for bath goes cold very fast, but today i turned off the upstairs zone and one of went for a bath, they had plenty hot water and were able to enjoy it, my oil boiler is eighteen yrs old, it has always been serviced, but i am wondering if i am guessing right

mk2 · 11-12-2011 11:18pm

Was thinking of goin for an insert stove with a back boiler to heat 12 radiators,as follows.
4x1160mm
2x950mm Double
2x950mm Single
2x900mm
1x580mm
1x460mm,
Our sitting room is 15'x13'.
The house is insulated and has double glazing.
Any advice on what make would be the best.
The budget would flexable depending on the quality and efficiency but all suggestions will looked into!

Qualitymark · 11-12-2011 11:40pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

where we lived in France wood was very cheap to buy. About a 50% saving.

Yikes!

Stove Fan · 12-12-2011 12:02am

mk2 wrote: »

Was thinking of goin for an insert stove with a back boiler to heat 12 radiators,as follows.
4x116mm
2x95mm Double
2x95mm Single
2x90mm
1x58mm
1x46mm,
Our sitting room is 15'x13'.
The house is insulated and has double glazing.
Any advice on what make would be the best.
The budget would flexable depending on the quality and efficiency but all suggestions will looked into!

Hi:) I take it these measurements are centimetres or in mm but with a 0 on the end?

Are the others singles or doubles:)

Stove Fan:)

mk2 · 12-12-2011 12:08am

Yes stove fan that is right a 0 would help,there is only two doubles the rest are all single.

Stove Fan · 12-12-2011 12:35am

mk2 wrote: »

Was thinking of goin for an insert stove with a back boiler to heat 12 radiators,as follows.
4x1160mm
2x950mm Double
2x950mm Single
2x900mm
1x580mm
1x460mm,
Our sitting room is 15'x13'.
The house is insulated and has double glazing.
Any advice on what make would be the best.
The budget would flexable depending on the quality and efficiency but all suggestions will looked into!

Hi:) I have worked out the total Kw required of your rads and your domestic hot water and it is:

Rads 13.6kw
Hot water add 3.0kw
Total 16.6kw

Hot water requires around 3 KW for a standard sized cylinder.

Your very much over the largest inset boiler stove, by around 4kw. (There are larger output inset boiler stoves but they cost thousands) This wont make a huge difference providing you either turn some of the rads off or fit some of the rads with thermostatic radiator valves and set them on a much lower heat setting. Another way around it is have most of them on and then switch off rooms downstairs to heat the ones that were off.

I would go with the esse 350 green switch:) Or the charnwood LA 50 IB. http://www.charnwood.com/range/stove/la-stove.aspx

Stove Fan:)

gomamochi1 · 12-12-2011 1:18am

Hi There, we are gutting our family home. I have ripped out the two downstairs fireplaces- One in Living/ kitchen and the other in the front room. unfortunately the back clay plate shattered in the living room one when I was dismantling the fireplace- stove 1.JPG stove 2.JPG

Is it easy to fit a new fire place cay backing and fit this inset stove: http://www.dimplex.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/Westcott_Inset_WST4I_Instructions_Issue_1.pdf
after. The manufacturer says that you dont need a flue liner but from reading these boards I reckon its bad practice not to put on in. Any suggestions most welcome?

Stove Fan · 12-12-2011 1:48am

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Hi There, we are gutting our family home. I have ripped out the two downstairs fireplaces- One in Living/ kitchen and the other in the front room. unfortunately the back clay plate shattered in the living room one when I was dismantling the fireplace- stove 1.JPG stove 2.JPG

Is it easy to fit a new fire place cay backing and fit this inset stove: http://www.dimplex.co.uk/assets/kb/operating_instructions/0/Westcott_Inset_WST4I_Instructions_Issue_1.pdf
after. The manufacturer says that you dont need a flue liner but from reading these boards I reckon its bad practice not to put on in. Any suggestions most welcome?

Hi:) If you are only fitting the inset then it's not necessary to replace the fireback:) Just backfill all the voids with a mix of vermiculite and cement mix. Do it slightly moist. Make sure there is a lintel supporting the front of the chimneybreast over the fire opening. Fit a concrete one if there is no support. As your place looks like an older build? I would line the chimney unless clay lined and in good condition. Lining would be best though.

If You can afford a woodwarm fireview 4kw or 6.5kw inset stove they are great. It would look very good, around £1000 for the 6.5kw version. The 6.5 has an optional boiler version available for either hot water or central heating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs

http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQzV00edPI

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/woodwarm-stoves/woodwarm-fireview-4kw-inset-stove.html

They work very very well and are well made:).

I have no ties to woodwarm but I would have one in my home:D

Stove Fan:)

cocoman · 12-12-2011 5:55pm

goat2 wrote: »

i bought one of those eco fans, that you sit on top of the stove, it automatically works when the stove top get hot, it pushes the warm air around the room rather than it going to the ceiling, i already find the sitting room roasting, family saying it is too warm now

Hi goat2,
Just wondering where you purchased the ecofan? How much? I've seen them advertiser for €97-€135. From reading your post I'm assuming that it was money well spent.

gomamochi1 · 13-12-2011 12:55am

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) If you are only fitting the inset then it's not necessary to replace the fireback:) Just backfill all the voids with a mix of vermiculite and cement mix. Do it slightly moist. Make sure there is a lintel supporting the front of the chimneybreast over the fire opening. Fit a concrete one if there is no support. As your place looks like an older build? I would line the chimney unless clay lined and in good condition. Lining would be best though.

If You can afford a woodwarm fireview 4kw or 6.5kw inset stove they are great. It would look very good, around £1000 for the 6.5kw version. The 6.5 has an optional boiler version available for either hot water or central heating.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCMmV4vszEs

http://www.woodwarmstoves.co.uk/products/fireview-range/65kwinsetfireview.ashx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoQzV00edPI

http://www.whatstove.co.uk/woodwarm-stoves/woodwarm-fireview-4kw-inset-stove.html

They work very very well and are well made:).

I have no ties to woodwarm but I would have one in my home:D

Stove Fan:)

Cheers Sove fan for the valuable info. We are doing a self build/ renovation trying to carry out as much work ourselves as possible! Could you recommend where to buy vermiculite as I never heard of it before. Also where online in Irl or the UK can we buy stainless steel flue liners as i undersand we need these for a multifuel stove. I thought that this was a relatively simple job prior to reading this forum!
Cheers for the help!

goat2 · 13-12-2011 1:05am

cocoman wrote: »

Hi goat2,
Just wondering where you purchased the ecofan? How much? I've seen them advertiser for €97-€135. From reading your post I'm assuming that it was money well spent.

it is selling in, cork, portlaoise and tralee, it was nienty five euro, it is the smaller version, it is suitable for the small stove, they sell a bigger one for one hundred and forty five euro for bigger stove, the stove has to be standing proud of the heart, as you put it on the stove in such a way that the fan will catch the heat that goes up, stove has to be real hot to get the benefit from fan, they are also selling on ebay.

Stove Fan · 13-12-2011 1:37pm

gomamochi1 wrote: »

Cheers Sove fan for the valuable info. We are doing a self build/ renovation trying to carry out as much work ourselves as possible! Could you recommend where to buy vermiculite as I never heard of it before. Also where online in Irl or the UK can we buy stainless steel flue liners as i undersand we need these for a multifuel stove. I thought that this was a relatively simple job prior to reading this forum!
Cheers for the help!

My localish builders merchant stocked vermiculite in bags and the flue pipes and liners. The only thing is with buying in Britain is the delivery charges, so I bought all the flue sundries from my builders providers.

It may be worth doing a google search in your area and see if there is a stove shop who have these items or try your local builders merchants.

You could also ask on here if anyone knows an online company here or can recommend a supplier:)

Good luck with your project and keep warm:)

Stove Fan:)

whitelightrider · 13-12-2011 10:40pm

Stove fan, just wondering what it would cost to fit a stove? We have the pipes but not the connection to the chimney flue. The installer has given me a price of €170 to supply and fit any connectors needed and seal the stove and connections properly.

Just wondering if its a good price?

dinkss · 13-12-2011 11:22pm

Hi Stove Fan,
Can u help me with multifuel stove?

I have 11 rads in my house:
2 x double rads= W: 1500 H: 500
4x small rads = W: 500 H: 500
3x single rads = W: 1100 H: 500
1x single rad = W: 1200 H: 500
1x single rad = W: 1300 H: 500

I was looking at:
Stratford EB12i HE Boiler Stove
Esse 350GS Greenswitch Boiler Inset Stove
Carraig Mor 20kw Boiler Stove

I'm confused now coz I rang few places and few plumbers and they told me that Stratford EB12i HE Boiler Stove will be the best and strong enough to heat all rads and have hot water and some of them told me to go with Carraig Mor 20kw Boiler Stove! As far as I checked most of the people says that
Stratford EB12i HE Boiler Stove is far better than Esse 350GS Greenswitch Boiler Inset Stove. Who is right? Which stove of those three is the best for my house? Which one will heat all rads and give hot water properly? I don't want to spend money and be disappointed:(
I like Stratford EB12i HE Boiler Stove and would like to buy it but will it heat all rads? Will it be good for my house? Thanks in advance for help!

doherta5 · 13-12-2011 11:33pm

Stove Fan wrote: »

Hi:) We have in the past ripped out a 12 month old oil boiler and replaced it with a woodburning stove with back boiler. It was cheaper to run as where we lived in France wood was very cheap to buy. About a 50% saving.

Here I think coal is definately cheaper than the wood but dirty and have to empty the ashes every day rather than once a week.

We only have a villager boiler stove here in Ireland heating the rads and hot water. It's a good stove and it is cheaper to run than oil for us as we use it a lot. We spend 650 euros on coal last winter and used it over 7 months. 105sqm detatched older style bungalow.
I would never go back to oil but for the more elderly generation the convenience of a flick of a switch I would consider linking the old oil boiler and new boiler stove together. The best of both then:)

I would try powerflushing and chemical cleaning as if it works great but at the worst case your going to have to do something anyway if it's starting to not heat up efficiently. You could have the stove installed at the same time.

I would be tempted if flushing/cleaning doesn't work is to re pipe anyway surface mounted with pipework dropped down from the loft. This is how my house is plumbed.

Stove Fan:)

Thanks for the info, SF. Tell me, does the housing on the newer pipework look ok on the skirting? I've thought about a total replumb of the gunbarrel but have always considered it a less neat solution that way (but have no intention of taking a kango to the floor).

The parents are well used to a stove as we already have one in the kitchen which heats the cylinder in winter (with solar in the summer). It knocks out some good heat and the water is piping hot, but it would only be big enough to heat about 3 rads (or so I remember the lad they bought it off saying). If I were to put in a new stove I would have the option of taking out the current one in the kitchen and replacing it with one in the living room with a high enough KW output to heat all rads and the cylinder, or leaving the current one in place and having the two going.

What would your (expert, by the look of your answers on this thread!) opinion be?

STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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