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Dropping to (F) level Maths

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  • 06-05-2008 12:17am
    #1
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭


    Not sure if I'm posting in the right forum, so Mods feel free to move me if I'm not. I've a sibling sitting the Lc and for as long as I can remember he has struggled with Maths, even with extra classes and grinds. He got 12% in the ordinary level Maths, and was advised by his school and by two different grinds teachers to drop to Foundation. He feels maybe it's because he could be numerically dyslexic, as he is quite good in other subjects(none are science)

    He does not wish to go into college straight away but rather do a PLC, then do a few years travel. He's 18. However his teachers tell him (and I got this myself) that he is ending his chances of getting into college by doing Foundation Math, which has knocked his self esteem a lot, and subsequently affecting his other subjects.

    I know that for 3rd level institutions you need to pass English Irish and Maths, but as I'm discovering now, once youre 23 you can apply for courses and your Leaving cert doesn't really matter, obv there is an interview at that age, but surely one would have had more life experience at 23 than aged 17 to decide what they want to do?

    I need to give him advice and would appreciate help.

    Also, is it possible to repeat just one subject, even in a few years time?

    Hope ye can help.


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    #2
    Cokehead Mother
    Closed Accounts Posts: 773 ✭✭✭Cokehead Mother


    What does he want to study in college? Some courses will let him in with foundation maths.


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    #3
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    Well that's the thing. He is planning on doing a plc in Film and TV...but he's 18 and hasn't a clue what he really wants...needs to get some life experience, he feels, travel and see the the world and then decide on college. I have to agree with him, altho Im carfeul not to influence him..as and older sibling, I'm 26 and made the mistake of going straight into a three yr degree aged 17, hating it and only now getting into what I want to do..he doesn't want to waste his opportunity of free fees on a degree just for the sake of doing one now....

    will the foundation level maths really hold him back when his main areas of interest are film, art, music and the more social side of careers as opposed to scientific, business and engineering?


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    #4
    valz_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭valz_walsh


    What might be an idea is if he gives the foundation level a go. Then doa bit of travelling, and then when he's ready he can just repeat the maths at ordinary level. It'd only be one subject to focus on then.

    Im 26 and I still dont really know what I want to do. But the maths is important if you want to keep options opened.

    I hope everything works out.:)


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    #5
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    Thanks for that..I' m of the same opinion. He really hasnt a clue what to do as he hasnt ever worked, but has travelled some and wants to do more.

    That's my question tho...is it possible to actually do that, repeat just one subject when youre older..say, could I go back now and repeat one subject..how does that work? Any link or advice would be appreciated as I'd like to to reassure him.


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    #6
    valz_walsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 77 ✭✭valz_walsh


    It is possible to go back and just do one subject. Im planning on doing it myself. Im thinking about getting into teaching. I must go back an do higher level Irish first, as I did ordinary level the last time.

    Where are you from? Im from Cork, and I know that the College of Commerce do it. Iv looked up the Irish course there, and its 200E for the year, one night a week, so if he wanted to work while he's doing the year, that could be done. I know how hard it is even considering being the poor student again, so the night course is good for me.

    You could probably go onto google, and type, repeat leaving cert maths, and your county in the search engine and see what happens.

    Also if he does have problems with mixing up numbers, it might be an idea to get in touch with the department of education, he might be able to get some sort of special treatment. I know there was a guy in my class when I was doing the leaving cert, who was aloud to be in a separate room from everyone else, I think he was given an extra to do his exams too. That might be an idea, as it might reduce some of the pressure. I know of one or two people who frooze during their exams, coz of the stress. And if he's already worried over this exam, it might help.

    Sorry for the long reply!!!:)


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    #7
    BoozyBabe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,724 ✭✭✭BoozyBabe


    Yes, it's possible.

    I'm 28 & about to sit my HL Irish paper in a few weeks time to get into Primary teaching.

    When I was starting to read this thread, I thought it was going to be about someone wanting to take the easy way out becasue they were too lazy to work for it.

    But, if your sibling has honestly tried hard at grinds & put a lot of effort in, then maybe foundation is the route for them. As said, he can always do pass maths on its own at a later stage.

    When I did my LC, I got 16% in my pass maths, as I hadn't done a thing for the entire 2 years. I got a few grinds & came away with a B3.


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    #8
    kev_s88
    Registered Users Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭kev_s88


    im going back this year to repeat Pass Maths as i failed Higher Maths in the LC last year so yes it is possible to just repeat one subject in the future.

    i know many people in my year who did Foundation level Maths and are currently getting ready to go to college after doing their PLC for the year so it is not that big a deal for him to drop.

    as a great teacher i used to have once said, "in this day and age, no one will go hungry as long as they have some sort of formal education as there is a back door into everything these days"


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    #9
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    he can repeat just one subject BUT he can also use the PLC course he is planning to do to get into college. It's called the Higher Education Links Scheme. Basically if a student gets a FETAC award they can use that award to apply to a course/institution on the CAO linked to that award.

    A certain number of places are reserved at third level every year for students from PLC courses entering college with these qualifications. There's more information on the website about how the system works. It must be a FETAC accredited award though.


    http://www.fetac.ie/hels/default.htm

    Also quite a number of the colleges and schools that offer PLC courses often offer repeat maths as well and he might be able to do this at the same time. I teach PLC courses and a number of our students use the certificate to go to college every year (mainly in business and computing though). Some of them would have had foundation maths in their leaving cert


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    #10
    Brooke01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 277 ✭✭Brooke01


    LadyPennyworth wrote: »
    Not sure if I'm posting in the right forum, so Mods feel free to move me if I'm not. I've a sibling sitting the Lc and for as long as I can remember he has struggled with Maths, even with extra classes and grinds. He got 12% in the ordinary level Maths, and was advised by his school and by two different grinds teachers to drop to Foundation. He feels maybe it's because he could be numerically dyslexic, as he is quite good in other subjects(none are science)

    He does wish to go into college straight away but rather do a plc, then do a few years travel. He's 18. However his teachers tell him (and I got this myself) that he's totally ending his chances of getting into college, which has knocked his self esteem a lot.

    I know that 3rd level instituations need you to pass English Irish and Maths, but as I'm discovering now, once youre 23 you can apply for courses and youre leaving cert doesn't really matter, obv there is an interview, but surely one woudl have had more life experience at 23 than aged 17 to decide what they want to do?

    I need to give him advice and would appreciate help.

    Also, is it possible to repeat just one subject, even in a few years time.

    Hope ye can help.

    does he do a third language at school ???


  • Options
    #11
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    Thanks everyone. The answers given here are much appreciated and will help reassure them. Best of luck in your exams those of you doing them!


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    #12
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    If he does drop, and an employer sees it on a CV, theres going to be impressions made before any type of interview!


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    #13
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    Brooke01 wrote: »
    does he do a third language at school ???

    Yes, he studies German, and should come out with a good grade. Overall his grades are actually okay, but it is the Maths he really struggles with. Always has, and numerical dyslexia has been suggested but nothing has been done, which is unfortunate but such things happen.

    Timmywex: Is a "Fail" on an ordinary paper better or worse on a CV than a "B" on Foundation?


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    #14
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    personally I would think it's better to pass at the level he is capable of rather than fail at a higher level just for the sake of taking the higher level. I wouldn't put fails on a CV either, it just draws attention to the failure. If a fail is omitted an employer will pick up on it quickly enough anyway


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    #15
    LadyMayBelle
    Registered Users Posts: 5,095 ✭✭✭LadyMayBelle


    I have to say I agree rainbow trout. having a pass in a grade he feels confident in than doing an ordinary level exam where he is going to fail is the better option all round IMO. Thanks


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    #16
    DanGerMus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,525 ✭✭✭DanGerMus


    If he's really that unhappy with it and the results are that poor he should just write it off and drop to F and take a crack at that paper, personally i wouldn't even waste time studying it from now on, it would only add unnecessary stress.
    At least then he can just forget about it and concentrate on the rest and try to pull as many points there as he can.

    With regards to repeats. You can only add up the points from one leaving cert year. So when/if he repeats it by itself it will not add to the points but the repeated exam if better will be considered on college applications with regards to minimum requirements.

    If he really is considering goin as a mature student (over23) and not straight away it will look better to have his leaving but it's not must by any means.


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    #17
    MathsManiac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭MathsManiac


    And there are many direct-entry options too. For example, FL maths meets the general matriculation requirement for NUI (that is, it counts as a pass when clocking up your minimum of six passes incl. two hons); it's only a problem if maths is an entry requirement for the faculty concerned. Hence, if the other subjects are good enough to get the points, there's no problem having FL maths when applying for the following faculties:
    • Arts
    • Human Sciences
    • Philosophy
    • Celtic Studies
    • Law
    • Social Science
    ...unless there is a specific course requirement for maths.

    The above information is gleaned from: www.nui.ie/entry/pdffiles/matricregsEng0607.pdf

    I would agree with othes that everyone should study a maths course that is at a suitable level to fulfil their educational needs.

    And in my view, any astute employer will be more impressed by evidence of a high level of achievement on areas of maths relevant to the world of life and work (ie a high grade at FL) than by evidence of incompetence at other areas of maths (ie a low grade at OL).


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    #18
    MathsManiac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭MathsManiac


    I should also have mentioned that FL maths satisfies the TCD matric requirement. That is: pass FL maths and you CAN go to TCD; fail OL maths and you can't.

    (Slightly different from NUI, since you can matriculate to NUI without maths at all.)


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