Sterilisation of heroin addicts - justified?

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:26am #1

Taxi driver tonight told me a story of two new parent junkies in his car, the mother having given birth two days before, strung out of their heads getting a lift home last week. Lets just say they were just out of the hospital and he seemed really animated about the state the parents were actually in and basically rejects their ability to raise a child and could not believe they were allowed leave with a child given their state. And by strung out he meant really strung out (O'Connell st extreme zombie style). Basically the child has no chance was his beef.

Given taxpayers fund the meth program maybe it is time for taxpayers to consider other options for something that does not work - and as visible on Dublin streets every day will never work - maybe sterilisation for a period is an option that could also be considered.

Lets be honest bringing up any child in that environment is surely abuse?

TheLastMohican · 12-08-2015 2:30am

I would like to register my opinion but can't. The PC mods are looking.

Samaris · 12-08-2015 2:33am

Thing is, you will need to throw out such minor things as the Constitution and y'know, human rights to sterilise people against their will. It's a very sad situation, but its the sort of situation that we have the Care system for. Of course its not ideal, and babies born to meth or heroin addicts are often born with problems themselves, poor kids. This one, given they were released and presumably with the baby, has hopefully escaped that cruel lottery.

But no, forced (and let's face it, I don't get the impression you are particularly considering consent) sterilisation has a long and evil history to it and rightly so.

Gatling · 12-08-2015 2:33am

Sterilisation should be brought in when situations like this keep happening it's absolutely disgusting that junkies are allowed to repeatedly get pregnant while on heroine and leaving the state to raise there kids and fund there habit ,
That or intern then to a secure facility till the baby is born and adopted

One eyed Jack · 12-08-2015 2:33am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Taxi driver tonight told me a story of two new parent junkies in his car

...

Lets be honest

Well if you want honesty, I don't believe for a second that any taxi driver let two strung out heroin addicts anywhere near his car, let alone carried them for any distance, from anywhere.

Someone's bullshìtting someone somewhere.

TheLastMohican · 12-08-2015 2:35am

Gatling wrote: »

Sterilisation should be brought in when situations like this keep happening it's absolutely disgusting that junkies are allowed to repeatedly get pregnant while on heroine and leaving the state to raise there kids and fund there habit ,
That or intern then to a secure facility till the baby is born and adopted

Try getting a politician to say that.

Gatling · 12-08-2015 2:35am

TheLastMohican wrote: »

Try getting a politician to say that.

Best we get is oh were winning the war against drugs

TheLastMohican · 12-08-2015 2:36am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Well if you want honesty, I don't believe for a second that any taxi driver let two strung out heroin addicts anywhere near his car, let alone carried them for any distance, from anywhere.

Someone's bullshìtting someone somewhere.

Maybe yes ....... maybe no.

Samaris · 12-08-2015 2:36am

TheLastMohican wrote: »

I would like to register my opinion but can't. The PC mods are looking.

Ah, so you're waiting for someone else to say it so you can agree without getting punished? :P

Gatling · 12-08-2015 2:38am

Did anyone see the news story where a pregnant junkie passed on a a street with holding on to an aerosol (I think it was )

NachoBusiness · 12-08-2015 2:40am

Phil Lynott was a heroin addict.

So should he have been sterilized, or is just the ones on the dole that would meet the criteria?

Either way, reactive, nonsensical, baloney and that's coming from someone that can't abide junkies.

Free condoms, sure.. but sterilization is absurd.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:40am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Someone's bullshìtting someone somewhere.

I actually asked him because I found that odd as well and it was the hospital that phoned the taxi. Whether that makes a difference I don't know.

[Deleted User] · 12-08-2015 2:42am

Gonna go ahead and assume this isn't a wind-up...

I don't think we ought to force anyone to be sterilised. In cases where women have a serious drug addiction (whatever part of your city they live, whatever their background), I believe they should be offered contraceptives like the pill or even a birth control implant if the pill is not feasible. It should be their choice, but if they agree with the advice, they should be fully supported in terms of the cost.

Nothing of a straightforward, temporary nature can be done about males, as far as I am aware.

Obviously going out and rounding up people and sterilising them against their will is a non starter for all sorts of reasons.

TheLastMohican · 12-08-2015 2:43am

Samaris wrote: »

Ah, so you're waiting for someone else to say it so you can agree without getting punished? :P

Am on my last chance. See my profile! Omerto etc.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:44am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Obviously going out and rounding up people and sterilising them against their will is a non starter for all sorts of reasons.

But the problem is if you walk along the boardwalk in Dublin at 2pm you might reconsider pretty quick! I'm not trying to be smart but seriously you would want to see it. Junkies pushing prams is not exactly unusual.

[Deleted User] · 12-08-2015 2:46am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But the problem is if you walk along the boardwalk in Dublin at 2pm

Stop assuming you have a unique perspective on the drugs problem in central Dublin, just because you've supposedly had a chat with a taxi driver & strolled along the boardwalk.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:48am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Stop assuming you have a unique perspective on the drugs problem in central Dublin, just because you've supposedly had a chat with a taxi driver & strolled along the boardwalk.

You clearly have not. You see this upfront and your political correctness will soon go out the window.

One eyed Jack · 12-08-2015 2:48am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I actually asked him because I found that odd as well and it was the hospital that phoned the taxi. Whether that makes a difference I don't know.

It really doesn't.

In what world, even if a taxi driver did tell you this, would you honestly believe that two heroin addicts would be allowed leave any hospital strung out, and carrying a baby?

It's worse that you actually claim to believe him tbh. Taxi drivers talk utter shyte all the time, and if you actually genuinely believe that story, I have some magic beans that might interest you.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:51am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It's worse that you actually claim to believe him tbh.

Why should I not believe him? I have more reason to believe than disbelieve him.

[Deleted User] · 12-08-2015 2:53am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You clearly have not. You see this upfront and your political correctness will soon go out the window.

Ah go to bed. Or go down to the boardwalk tomorrow afternoon & suggest your idea to your compatriots yourself. You know, stand over your ideas in a public space.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 2:54am

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Ah go to bed. Or go down to the boardwalk tomorrow afternoon & suggest your idea to your compatriots yourself. You know, stand over your ideas in a public space.

So a child being wheeled around by a junkie is perfectly ok to you? Fine, we know where you stand.

Billy86 · 12-08-2015 2:54am

TheLastMohican wrote: »

I would like to register my opinion but can't. The PC mods are looking.

It must be tough being such a victim all the time.

Samaris · 12-08-2015 2:58am

Ok, say it did come in. I don't agree with the concept, but as a thought experiment, so to speak.

Firstly, method. Pill is one thing, but that requires the woman to be on it and in a fit state to be taking it regularly since t can go wrong. Its birth control rather than sterilisation.

Implant - more possible, technically temporary, up to three years prevention. However, expensive for the State and must be removes surgically too after three years. Can have side effects. And I'm not quite sure of side effects of injecting in an arm with an implant in it, this not being something that tends to be considered.

Tubal ligation, vasectomy and chemical castration are pretty much permanent.

How to decide who gets a medical procedure, particularly against their will?

When someone goes in for a checkup? Methadone clinic? All either will do is cause people to avoid them. Round them up in the street? What if someone is already in the early stages of pregnancy?

What drugs are considered bad enough to result in this procedure?
I think we can leave out tobacco and marijuana really. Alcoholics? Heroin, methadone, probably not coke, I believe that tends to be the drug of more well-off people who will probably be able to raise a right racket about those pesky Human Rights I mentioned in an earlier post.

Bah, it just doesn't work. Implant is probably the 'best' scenario, but even that has too many issues to be workable, certainly ethically and probably financially as well.

Edit: also, yes, a baby born to two practicing heroin addicts would probably not be allowed to leave with the child. Tragically, babies born in such a circumstance are usually born addicts themselves and need a lot of treatment and looking after. They are also far more likely to be taken away from the parents straight off. Not always, but often. It -is- also unlikely that the baby would be released to parents actually high at the time.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 3:01am

Samaris wrote: »

What drugs are considered bad enough to result in this procedure?Human Rights

Heroin. And human rights? What about the child's rights?

One eyed Jack · 12-08-2015 3:03am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Why should I not believe him?

Do you honestly believe that hospital staff are actually that incompetent for starters?

Do you honestly believe a taxi driver would pick up two strung out heroin addicts in his car, even leaving aside the fact that they were carrying a newborn baby?

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have more reason to believe than disbelieve him.

You really don't, but have it your way. Believing that nonsense would suggest that the taxi driver knew exactly who he was talking to.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 3:05am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Do you honestly believe that hospital staff are actually that incompetent for starters?

Do you honestly believe a taxi driver would pick up two strung out heroin addicts in his car, even leaving aside the fact that they were carrying a newborn baby?

Yes I do. What do you have to say about that? You don't think this happens week in, week out no?

Samaris · 12-08-2015 3:06am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Heroin. And human rights? What about the child's rights?

All the children that you speak of would technically be potential children in this case; sterilising addicts does nothing for the children already in the world, does it? You are talking about throwing out the concept of Human Rights in favour of rights of people not even concieved yet to prevent them being born. I mean, I get where you're:re coming from, but that just ain't going to fly.

Guy:Incognito · 12-08-2015 3:06am

Can they not just be quietly "disappeared"? Surely theres enough money in the budget for say, 4 black ops lads yo work at night, off the books. Use petty cash vouchers and say the money is for stationary or something.

One eyed Jack · 12-08-2015 3:09am

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Yes I do. What do you have to say about that? You don't think this happens week in, week out no?

No, no I don't.

I do think you're making the whole thing up though, from start to finish.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 3:10am

Samaris wrote: »

All the children that you speak of would technically be potential children in this case; sterilising addicts does nothing for the children already in the world, does it? You are talking about throwing out the concept of Human Rights in favour of rights of people not even concieved yet to prevent them being born. I mean, I get where you're:re coming from, but that just ain't going to fly.

Again you say this until you actually come across a junkie with a pram. Amazing how opinions can change so quick when confronted with the reality.

Kermit.de.frog · 12-08-2015 3:11am

One eyed Jack wrote: »

No, no I don't.

I do think you're making the whole thing up though, from start to finish.

Well I don't care what you think random internet guy. I'm telling you what a clearly upset taxi driver told me. Whether you believe it or not I really don't care.

Sterilisation of heroin addicts - justified?

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