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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • #4352
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    smash wrote: »
    No it's not :confused:
    Yes i know. Too many drugs for a busted up leg. I blame the drugs.


  • #4353
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    I agree, we all don't watch RTE and well over a year ago with all the coverage of economic downfall i had enough and no longer buy papers. listen to news current affair programs on the TV or radio used to follow all current affairs. Most information I now hear is second hand but life is alot more better since I imposed a media black out. (Also I no longer want to be part of the european progam but as the country I live is in it I have no choice) this last statement is a p*** take in case I get a back lash.


  • #4354
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    Enlighten me then as to how they will collect it if people don't pay, and refuse to pay a fine?



    No it's not :confused:

    How Household Charge will be collected if people don't pay is already explained in earlier posts - if you took the time to read them.

    Government have little choice but to make this work ..... it's not rocket science - all it takes is determination to see it through - they already have the mandate to sort out the country's finances.

    I attach FAQ again, which explains all relevant details: https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk16


  • #4355
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    robbie7730 wrote: »
    Not all countrymen will have to contribute to this tax though, only home owners.

    Irrelevant. All countrymen use the services of the local government, whether they want to admit or not.


  • #4356
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    Irrelevant. All countrymen use the services of the local government, whether they want to admit or not.

    Yes, but home owners are being targeted to pay, not all countrymen.


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  • #4357
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    golfwallah wrote: »
    How Household Charge will be collected if people don't pay is already explained in earlier posts - if you took the time to read them.

    Government have little choice but to make this work ..... it's not rocket science - all it takes is determination to see it through - they already have the mandate to sort out the country's finances.

    I attach FAQ again, which explains all relevant details: https://www.householdcharge.ie/Faq.aspx#fk16

    If you read the document it just states there will be fees and penalties. It doesn't state how they will collect the money.


  • #4358
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    smash wrote: »
    If you read the document it just states there will be fees and penalties. It doesn't state how they will collect the money.

    It's all there - just read it again ..... slowly .... then think about it.

    Slow down ..... you're too quick at posting ...... I'm not your teacher or your mammy ....... I'm off to the gym .... this is just crazy!!


  • #4359
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    If you read the document it just states there will be fees and penalties. It doesn't state how they will collect the money.


    Looks clear to me - "Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed. "


  • #4360
    jack67
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭jack67


    well for some who can afford to go to the gym


  • #4361
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    golfwallah wrote: »
    It's all there - just read it again ..... slowly .... then think about it.

    Slow down ..... you're too quick at posting ...... I'm not your teacher or your mammy ....... I'm off to the gym .... this is just crazy!!

    No it's not, so drop the condescending attitude:

    "An owner of a residential property who does not pay a Household Charge or an instalment thereof by the due date will be subject to (1) LATE PAYMENT FEES and (2) LATE PAYMENT INTEREST"

    "Any Household Charges or late payment penalties due on a residential property will have to be discharged, in full, before a transfer or sale of the property can be completed."

    So if you have no intention of selling and refuse to pay, what will they do?


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  • #4362
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    So if you have no intention of selling and refuse to pay, what will they do?


    Have you no intention of dying either?


  • #4363
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    black francis wrote: »
    Have you no intention of dying either?
    "Penalties and interest which had been accruing up to the point of death cease and no further penalties are applied, provided that the personal representative of the deceased discharges the full amount of the household charge, late payment fees and interest due up to the date of death within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased."

    Parent dies, you have 3 months to pay. You refuse to pay, what will they do?


  • #4364
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    "Penalties and interest which had been accruing up to the point of death cease and no further penalties are applied, provided that the personal representative of the deceased discharges the full amount of the household charge, late payment fees and interest due up to the date of death within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased."

    Parent dies, you have 3 months to pay. You refuse to pay, what will they do?


    Well presumambly the property cannot be transfered to the next of kin and the state becoimes the de-facto owner of the property, in this instance the state can recover the charge by selling the property.


  • #4365
    Ghandee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    black francis wrote: »
    Well presumambly the property cannot be transfered to the next of kin and the state becoimes the de-facto owner of the property, in this instance the state can recover the charge by selling the property.



    Presumably.


    Your some craic.


    A legal document should have a little bit more clarity in it than a 'presumption' no?


  • #4366
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    black francis wrote: »
    Well presumambly the property cannot be transfered to the next of kin and the state becoimes the de-facto owner of the property, in this instance the state can recover the charge by selling the property.

    Why are you presuming that. It doesn't say that anywhere. It says the fines/penalties must be paid within 3 months of change of ownership or in other words "within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased". They can not just take a house that's been fully paid for.

    What they could do it add the amount to the inheritance tax but is also does not say that anywhere.


  • #4367
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    smash wrote: »
    Enlighten me then as to how they will collect it if people don't pay, and refuse to pay a fine?
    Get a court order maybe.
    Get an attachment order and take it directly from your salary maybe.


  • #4368
    DoesNotCompute
    Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    What a complete load of ****e.
    The pro campaign must be in big trouble when they're coming out with this kind of drivel!!

    The anti campaign must be in much worse shape by insulting people and calling them "sheep" and "government shills".


  • #4369
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Presumably.


    Your some craic.


    A legal document should have a little bit more clarity in it than a 'presumption' no?


    You think my post is a legal document?


    If you want legal clarity ask a solicitor - I'm just giving an opinion thus my use of the word 'presumably'.


  • #4370
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    DoesNotCompute wrote: »
    The anti campaign must be in much worse shape by insulting people and calling them "sheep" and "government shills".

    What difference does it make what shape anything is in? What is, is. The pro campaign posters were not short of a few little insults themselves. That also wont change what is or will be.


  • #4371
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    Why are you presuming that. It doesn't say that anywhere. It says the fines/penalties must be paid within 3 months of change of ownership or in other words "within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased". They can not just take a house that's been fully paid for.

    What they could do it add the amount to the inheritance tax but is also does not say that anywhere.


    See my answer above.

    At the end of the day, I don't really give a **** how they collect it because I've paid so it's a moot point for me. The non-payers are the ones that need to educate themselves on their possible future liabilities.


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  • #4372
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    dvpower wrote: »
    Get a court order maybe.
    Get an attachment order and take it directly from your salary maybe.
    black francis wrote: »
    See my answer above.

    At the end of the day, I don't really give a **** how they collect it because I've paid so it's a moot point for me.

    The point is that nothing has been stated as to how they can get it. I said they can't prosecute almost 1/4 of the population and was told "they don't have to", but they do if they want the money.
    black francis wrote: »
    The non-payers are the ones that need to educate themselves on their possible future liabilities.
    And the payers need to educate themselves as to the trap they're falling in to. Pay now and see what level it's at in 3 or 4 years. At that stage you have no right to complain because you agreed to it.


  • #4373
    Annabella1
    Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭Annabella1


    Paid the fee last night....Euro 100...took about 2mins
    What's the big deal? It will increase...two certainties death and taxes!
    Get really annoyed at 2 bit politicians hoovering up big salaries and unvouched expenses advising people to break the law to enhance their reelection prospects.
    We have bigger problems in this country at the moment.


  • #4374
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    Annabella1 wrote: »
    Paid the fee last night....Euro 100...took about 2mins
    What's the big deal? It will increase...two certainties death and taxes!
    Get really annoyed at 2 bit politicians hoovering up big salaries and unvouched expenses advising people to break the law to enhance their reelection prospects.
    We have bigger problems in this country at the moment.

    Get really annoyed at 2 bit politicians hoovering up big salaries and unvouched expenses, making election promises they know they can't follow up on to enhance their re-election prospects.

    so what's your point?


  • #4375
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »

    And the payers need to educate themselves as to the trap they're falling in to. Pay now and see what level it's at in 3 or 4 years. At that stage you have no right to complain because you agreed to it.


    I reserve the right to complain about my taxes for the rest of my life.

    I'm under no illusion that the charge will rise in the coming years - as will most taxes.


  • #4376
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    black francis wrote: »
    I'm under no illusion that the charge will rise in the coming years - as will most taxes.

    They announced "We will not tax people's income any more", so instead they'll just tax everything else. There's a breaking point, and to a lot of people this is it. Why touch people's homes? Why not add a gambling tax or an extra €1 on cigarettes and make 50x what the household tax will bring in?


  • #4377
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    smash wrote: »
    "Penalties and interest which had been accruing up to the point of death cease and no further penalties are applied, provided that the personal representative of the deceased discharges the full amount of the household charge, late payment fees and interest due up to the date of death within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased."

    Parent dies, you have 3 months to pay. You refuse to pay, what will they do?
    After the 3 month period, penalties and interest will resume accruing on the property. Unless you plan on keeping the property in your family's possession for the next 200 years, they will get their money eventually.


  • #4378
    mconigol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭mconigol


    This is what the constitution says in regards to private property:
    Private Property
    Article 43
    1. 1° The State acknowledges that man, in virtue of his rational being, has the natural right, antecedent to positive law, to the private ownership of external goods.
    2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.
    2. 1° The State recognises, however, that the exercise of the rights mentioned in the foregoing provisions of this Article
    ought, in civil society, to be regulated by the principles of social justice.
    2° The State, accordingly, may as occasion requires delimit by law the exercise of the said rights with a view to reconciling their exercise with the exigencies of the common good.

    I think No. 2 is interesting:
    2° The State accordingly guarantees to pass no law attempting to abolish the right of private ownership or the general right to transfer, bequeath, and inherit property.

    Of course it depends if a property tax can be classified as being for the common good. I'm sure it can be twisted that way.


  • #4379
    squod
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,704 ✭✭✭squod


    dvpower wrote: »
    The anti household charge campaign cannot bring the country to a halt.
    To suggest it could is fanciful nonsence.

    Codology! Are you a member of any of the campaign teams?


  • #4380
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    smash wrote: »
    Why are you presuming that. It doesn't say that anywhere. It says the fines/penalties must be paid within 3 months of change of ownership or in other words "within 3 months of the date of the grant of representation to the estate of the deceased". They can not just take a house that's been fully paid for.

    The tax is essentially on the house, so if it is sold or passed on then it will have to be paid then.

    It will come down to solicitors having to ensure that all outstanding debts are paid off before any transfers of property can take place, for which I'm sure, they will charge an additional fee.


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  • #4381
    Frank Black
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,296 ✭✭✭Frank Black


    smash wrote: »
    They announced "We will not tax people's income any more", so instead they'll just tax everything else. There's a breaking point, and to a lot of people this is it. Why touch people's homes? Why not add a gambling tax or an extra €1 on cigarettes and make 50x what the household tax will bring in?


    Well, because a property tax brings in a stable form of tax income every year - the alternatives you have mentioned are cyclical taxes which are driven by activity in the market place, whether that be people buying ciggarettes or people choosing to gamble.

    Large scale increses in public spending on the back of highly cyclical taxes like VAT and Stamp Duty are what got us into the mess in the first place.


This discussion has been closed.
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