Sick Leave Provisions Circular

TheDriver · 24-07-2014 12:01am #1

New Circular published
http://www.tui.ie/_fileupload/CL0059-2014.pdf

Nothing surprising in there except the 4 years is retrospective.........

whiteandlight · 24-07-2014 1:47am

On the maternity front, I read that as you have to use up your entire full paid sick leave as normal before you get any dispensation on it being "maternity related" (article 16 of this circular)? Otherwise you would likely never reach the need for half pay. I presume thats to discourage people from extending maternity leave so to speak

Moody_mona · 24-07-2014 8:02am

Have second level teachers always been allowed four self certified sick days without a note?

implausible · 24-07-2014 1:38pm

Moody_mona wrote: »

Have second level teachers always been allowed four self certified sick days without a note?

Yep, but not consecutive, it was more up until recently.

Moody_mona · 24-07-2014 3:11pm

implausible wrote: »

Yep, but not consecutive, it was more up until recently.

The last line of the circular states:

"Secondary, Community and Comprehensive Schools
Eligible teachers may take a maximum of 4 consecutive school days sick leave without providing a medical certificate"

I was under the impression that it was three consecutive then note. So I'm asking has it always been the case that it's four?

Just confused implausible, thanks for the reply!

Pwpane · 24-07-2014 4:31pm

Yes, it was always 4 consecutive days for secondary. Not sure about weekends though, I'd say Fri to Mon prob qualify as 4 days.

Moody_mona · 24-07-2014 4:35pm

Pwpane wrote: »

Yes, it was always 4 consecutive days for secondary. Not sure about weekends though, I'd say Fri to Mon prob qualify as 4 days.

Yes it would. Thanks for that clarification

Millem · 27-07-2014 2:36pm

So pregnancy related is now going to be counted as normal sick leave? But the least you can get is half pay? If so this is an absolute disgrace, how did the unions allow this? Please tell me I have read this wrong :eek:

whiteandlight · 27-07-2014 2:41pm

Ya thats how I'm reading it as well. I've had two illness related breaks both involving hospitalisation in the last five years and now I'm concerned that if I end up on bed rest or anything while pregnant I'll end up down on half pay

Millem · 27-07-2014 4:44pm

whiteandlight wrote: »

Ya thats how I'm reading it as well. I've had two illness related breaks both involving hospitalisation in the last five years and now I'm concerned that if I end up on bed rest or anything while pregnant I'll end up down on half pay

It's a disgrace! I had hyperemesis my entire pregnancy and only managed to work 4 weeks all in all (I was pregnant for all the summer). I was put on bed rest from sept til dec (till maternity leave). I always manage to go to work with a cold/flu etc but honestly couldn't even make it to my car. I am so worried if it will happen again

and I don't want to take anti nausea tablets. I have been on maternity leave this year so maybe I missed all this? Did unions even consult us on this?

rainbowtrout · 27-07-2014 5:26pm

Millem wrote: »

It's a disgrace! I had hyperemesis my entire pregnancy and only managed to work 4 weeks all in all (I was pregnant for all the summer). I was put on bed rest from sept til dec (till maternity leave). I always manage to go to work with a cold/flu etc but honestly couldn't even make it to my car. I am so worried if it will happen again and I don't want to take anti nausea tablets. I have been on maternity leave this year so maybe I missed all this? Did unions even consult us on this?

Don't remember any talk about it and it's not fair. I'm assuming it's come about because some people are abusing the system. Again they are the minority, but enough to result in cuts for everyone else.

I'm working with a teacher who was claiming symptoms similar to yours Millem and got signed off for a month, but was swanning in and out of school about once a week in that month, saying she had stuff to do down in her classroom, or 'I want to see my fifth years today' - not all the classes she was timetabled for mind and LCs wondering why they were being abandoned, and she might be sitting in the staffroom on a Wednesday and saying I'll be in next Thursday. So we were all thinking, for someone who is supposed to be bed ridden she's doing an awful lot of picking and choosing of days and is amazing at knowing she won't be bed ridden next Thursday.

Other teachers I work with have had experiences like yourself, ended up in hospital and will suffer the brunt of idiots like the one above.

Millem · 27-07-2014 5:49pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Don't remember any talk about it and it's not fair. I'm assuming it's come about because some people are abusing the system. Again they are the minority, but enough to result in cuts for everyone else.

I'm working with a teacher who was claiming symptoms similar to yours Millem and got signed off for a month, but was swanning in and out of school about once a week in that month, saying she had stuff to do down in her classroom, or 'I want to see my fifth years today' - not all the classes she was timetabled for mind and LCs wondering why they were being abandoned, and she might be sitting in the staffroom on a Wednesday and saying I'll be in next Thursday. So we were all thinking, for someone who is supposed to be bed ridden she's doing an awful lot of picking and choosing of days and is amazing at knowing she won't be bed ridden next Thursday.

Other teachers I work with have had experiences like yourself, ended up in hospital and will suffer the brunt of idiots like the one above.

I thought when you have a sick cert you are not allowed on the premises? I know people who get signed off because they live far away and the drive is too long. I wonder if you show up for work and you get sent home is that counted as a sick day?

rainbowtrout · 27-07-2014 6:17pm

Millem wrote: »

I thought when you have a sick cert you are not allowed on the premises? I know people who get signed off because they live far away and the drive is too long. I wonder if you show up for work and you get sent home is that counted as a sick day?

ya, it's a long story that needs treating with kid gloves. It's the first thing I thought of when I saw it happening this year.

man_no_plan · 28-07-2014 3:13pm

The changes to the public sector sick pay scheme have been on the cards for a long time. I would say at least two years.

in any case it would be good advice to look at income continuance insurance especially if you have a family depending on your income.

cornmarket will invariably try yo roast you. I'm not connected to the company but PSRA in maynooth are very good. I was on this morning to check if i needed to change anything on my policy. It was set up 2 years ago to start paying after 26 weeks.

i don't want to bash cornmarket but in my experience they are more interested in selling you something rather than making sure its right for you.

Millem · 28-07-2014 3:35pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

The changes to the public sector sick pay scheme have been on the cards for a long time. I would say at least two years.

in any case it would be good advice to look at income continuance insurance especially if you have a family depending on your income.

cornmarket will invariably try yo roast you. I'm not connected to the company but PSRA in maynooth are very good. I was on this morning to check if i needed to change anything on my policy. It was set up 2 years ago to start paying after 26 weeks.

i don't want to bash cornmarket but in my experience they are more interested in selling you something rather than making sure its right for you.

I tried to get that from cornmarket but because I was out sick from sept-dept (pregnancy related which medmark have varified) cornmarket have told me I can't get it :mad::mad:

TheDriver · 28-07-2014 5:04pm

I looked into other products than cornmarket and found them fairly expensive. Also be careful: Once you hit lower pay, cornmarket kicks in whereas others need you to be on 26 weeks continuous sick. So if you are out 6 weeks this year, 6 the next etc, it won't kick in until 26 weeks have passed (that's my understanding of it anyways) whereas Cornmarket kicks it when its needed.

man_no_plan · 28-07-2014 10:29pm

TheDriver wrote: »

I looked into other products than cornmarket and found them fairly expensive. Also be careful: Once you hit lower pay, cornmarket kicks in whereas others need you to be on 26 weeks continuous sick. So if you are out 6 weeks this year, 6 the next etc, it won't kick in until 26 weeks have passed (that's my understanding of it anyways) whereas Cornmarket kicks it when its needed.

Thanks for that - my main point was that this has been on the cards for a while but yet people are horrified at it.

I couldn't be sure if my policy kicks in after 26 consecutive weeks or what - not really of a mind to go looking through the policy now but I will do. It's a fair point though with the rolling period etc the whole thing needs a lot more attention form people.

Millem · 28-07-2014 10:32pm

man_no_plan wrote: »

Thanks for that - my main point was that this has been on the cards for a while but yet people are horrified at it.

I couldn't be sure if my policy kicks in after 26 consecutive weeks or what - not really of a mind to go looking through the policy now but I will do. It's a fair point though with the rolling period etc the whole thing needs a lot more attention form people.

I wasn't aware of the change for pregnancy related but was aware of the other changes. Actually the dept wrote to me about them when I was off sick last year.

TheDriver · 29-07-2014 12:28am

Being in management, I see a lot of what actually happens regarding sick leave and unfortunately some people really do take the mick. Like everyone here, I don't want to see any deterioration in conditions but a small number of people constantly take the absolute p**s on all front, and unfortunately some of these are pregnancy related. Its pure obvious too and its nearly as if an entitlement and goal to take the time off as opposed to a great perk IF its needed.
Pity, a small number ruin it for the rest of us.

Millem · 29-07-2014 7:02am

TheDriver wrote: »

Being in management, I see a lot of what actually happens regarding sick leave and unfortunately some people really do take the mick. Like everyone here, I don't want to see any deterioration in conditions but a small number of people constantly take the absolute p**s on all front, and unfortunately some of these are pregnancy related. Its pure obvious too and its nearly as if an entitlement and goal to take the time off as opposed to a great perk IF its needed.
Pity, a small number ruin it for the rest of us.

I agree. You used to be able to add up to 6 weeks onto your maternity leave for school hols and bank hols which they have abolished. Maybe a lot of people were going "sick"? The driver as you are in management say if I manage to get to work but I am sent home is this a "sick day"?

rainbowtrout · 29-07-2014 11:04am

Millem wrote: »

I agree. You used to be able to add up to 6 weeks onto your maternity leave for school hols and bank hols which they have abolished. Maybe a lot of people were going "sick"? The driver as you are in management say if I manage to get to work but I am sent home is this a "sick day"?

No that was different. If your maternity leave overlapped holidays you were allowed add those holidays on at the end of your leave. Eg if you went on maternity at the start of October it would finish at the end of March but it overlapped the October midterm, 2 weeks at Christmas , February mid term and possibly the two weeks at Easter. So at the end of the 26 weeks you could add on these 6 weeks holidays brining you to mid May. It wasn't uncommon for women to go on maternity mid October as it brought them to the end of the school year. That's gone now.

However you could and probably did have a few going sick in September going onto maternity in October and then onto holiday leave and off for the year

Millem · 29-07-2014 11:10am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No that was different. If your maternity leave overlapped holidays you were allowed add those holidays on at the end of your leave. Eg if you went on maternity at the start of October it would finish at the end of March but it overlapped the October midterm, 2 weeks at Christmas , February mid term and possibly the two weeks at Easter. So at the end of the 26 weeks you could add on these 6 weeks holidays brining you to mid May. It wasn't uncommon for women to go on maternity mid October as it brought them to the end of the school year. That's gone now.

However you could and probably did have a few going sick in September going onto maternity in October and then onto holiday leave and off for the year

That's exactly what I was referring too. Basically because they got rid of the extra 6 weeks I think some people might of took advantage then of pregnancy related sick leave and got signed off work early. In my opinion counting pregnancy related sick leave is actually gender discrimination.

Sick Leave Provisions Circular

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