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Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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Comments

  • #4622
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,478 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Martin Luther King opposed racial discrimination - not payment of taxes.

    Get a grip!

    He opposed unjust laws.


  • #4623
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    You obviously care if you give an answer like that. Basically you don't know then?

    Your an exception so dont really care less if you pay it, but on the other hand people are shooting themselves in the foot when they register and the more people register the more pressure it puts on the campaign this is why we do not want people registering, you know this already so dont know why your asking

    I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

    I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.


  • #4624
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I think drkpower is a retired doctor judging from some of his other posts, possibly a consultant.
    If this is the case sure a few hundred or even a few thousand in a household tax would be no problem to him.
    Sure they are some of the most cosseted and overpaid people in the country and if he's retired sure his pension is probably 2 or 3 times the average industrial wage anyway.
    Maybe he could confirm / deny this....

    You could be right but if I won the lotto tomorrow and won 50 million I would still not pay this €100, I would prob invest some money to make people see some cop on with this charge and stop looking at it blindly


  • #4625
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,478 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Donal we dont give a flying fck if you pay it. Go for it get into line and bend down, do what your told!! good lad

    You need to sharpen up your line in invective. I miss our old friend The Quadratic Equation who used to do it properly. Like this:

    Paying the charge, bending over, and sticking your cowardly head in the sand, while leaving your compliant servile ass in the air for riding at will by the corrupt golden circle.


  • #4626
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    golfwallah wrote: »
    Martin Luther King opposed racial discrimination - not payment of taxes.

    Get a grip!

    Think you should read up a bit on MLK and then 'get a grip' yourself!


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  • #4627
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    Its a law passed by our Dail, our elected parliament!!

    Do the anti brigade here think themselves as some sort of revolutionaries, perhaps anarchists?

    Or perhaps like the Tea Party in the US, where the mention of paying your taxes is an affront to their livelihood?


  • #4628
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    donalg1 wrote: »
    I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

    I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.

    Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle


  • #4629
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    gurramok wrote: »
    Its a law passed by our Dail, our elected parliament!!

    So you think a law passed by any elected government is just?


  • #4630
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle
    At what point would you accept you are fighting a loosing battle? Would you pay up then or continue fighting?


  • #4631
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    You could be right but if I won the lotto tomorrow and won 50 million I would still not pay this €100, I would prob invest some money to make people see some cop on with this charge and stop looking at it blindly

    Just checked my numbers and guess what.........................













    F**king nothing!!!!

    Still not paying though!


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  • #4632
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    Mr CJ wrote: »
    donalg1 wrote: »
    I'm asking because I don't know why anyone cares if I pay this charge what has it got to do with them? It's my money and my choice what I do with it surely.

    I've said all along if you don't want to pay it then you don't pay it simple as that. Can't see the need to protest or organise meetings about it.

    Its quite obvious, if we are to succeed with stopping this charge we need to stop as many people registering as possible otherwise we are fighting a loosing battle

    So basically the anti brigade are protesting to get the charge scrapped. Don't think there is any chance of that happening tbh. It's here now and will be replaced by the property tax.

    I wish it was scrapped but can't see it happening so will be paying.

    I know some will want me not to pay as they see it as unjust but most want me not to pay because they are hoping it's scrapped and because they don't want to be alone in not paying


  • #4633
    Mr CJ
    Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭Mr CJ


    dvpower wrote: »
    At what point would you accept you are fighting a loosing battle? Would you pay up then or continue fighting?

    Im not paying end of story. The water charges were abolished because people stuck together and went against government, im sure the pro people here were no help with that protest either


  • #4634
    Beubeu
    Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭Beubeu


    eth0 wrote: »
    I'm going to leave to a country where you don't have to pay an annual tax for living in a house that you own.

    There are plenty, believe me. It's just that it's common in such brilliant places as Germany and France to have such taxes, but by no means every country.

    Not having this stupid tax was one of the great things about ireland

    I know that property taxes is not about funding hospital
    , schools etc but you sound like you dont like taxes in general. fair enough!

    Taxes = incomes for the government = money to spend on public services.

    Back in the "good time" we didnt pay a lot of taxes compare to France and Germany. Our hospitals were a complete disgrace (still are), our roads were bad (worst now) etc....

    Can you please name this wonderfull country with low taxes and wonderfull pubic service? I might come with you :)


  • #4635
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    grindle wrote: »
    So you think a law passed by any elected government is just?

    By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.


  • #4636
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    donalg1 wrote: »
    So basically the anti brigade are protesting to get the charge scrapped. Don't think there is any chance of that happening tbh. It's here now and will be replaced by the property tax.

    I wish it was scrapped but can't see it happening so will be paying.

    I know some will want me not to pay as they see it as unjust but most want me not to pay because they are hoping it's scrapped and because they don't want to be alone in not paying

    Sure we'll wait and see what happens after this, back to the drawing board methinks.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0314/household.html


  • #4637
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Beubeu wrote: »


    Back in the "good time" we didnt pay a lot of taxes compare to France and Germany. Our hospitals were a complete disgrace (still are), our roads were bad (worst now) etc....



    :)

    Back in the 'good times' the government had more money than they could handle, they squandered it though benchmarking and inflated the bubble until it burst.
    We still have ****e services, a ****e overpaid, overstaffed PS/CS and still have the unions running rings around the government.
    And now they want to screw households for more cash to pay for the above, they can f**k off.


  • #4638
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,478 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Sure we'll wait and see what happens after this, back to the drawing board methinks.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0314/household.html

    From page 303.

    Successive Supreme Court decisions found that the State must make Acts of the Oireachtas available through Irish as soon as is practicable, or within a reasonable period, of the Act being published in English.

    One for the judges.


  • #4639
    golfwallah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭golfwallah


    tayto lover wrote: »
    I will try and make it easier for you to understand.

    1. I own my home and the site. My house does not damage the road because it does not move.
    2. I own my car but not the road. My car does damage the road because it does move.

    I pay taxes on my car because the roads it damages and which have to be kept in good repair are not mine.
    I won't pay a property tax because my house does not cause damage and I already paid Stamp Duty on it.
    There now. Simple. Hope you get it now.

    The state is spending way more than it earns and deficit has to be reduced by a combination of taxation and spending cuts.

    Your home and site are in the state - therefore, the state has the right to impose tax on your ownership, once the necessary laws are passed in our parliament.

    That's democracy - whether you like it or not.

    To believe you can specify which of those taxes you will pay and won't pay just by putting up a reason like "I own my home", regardless for the laws passed by democratically elected government, is clearly undemocratic.

    Sure, you have the right to protest. But breaking the law, even for an unpopular tax, is not an acceptable principle that can be upheld in a democratic state. It's a recipe for chaos and anarchy.

    If you want to stand for election on a platform of making it legal to pay only the taxes you consider to be fair, please do so.

    Otherwise you should obey the laws of the land.


  • #4640
    grindle
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭grindle


    gurramok wrote: »
    By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.

    Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

    Your source?


  • #4641
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,478 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    gurramok wrote: »
    By this govt yes as they were recently elected where the electorate knew this tax was on the way. Sort of a mandate for it.

    They were elected on a tissue of lies. Straight and simple.
    What about the famous Five Point Plan now ?
    What about the "not another cent" bit ?
    What about the "we will not close hospitals" bit ?
    What about the "re-negotiation" bit ?

    They are more interested in getting their hair ruffled by Sarcozy and getting little pecks on the cheek from Angela for being the "best boys in the class ".
    They are too cowardly and meek to ask the important questions and because of that they have achieved absolutely nothing in Europe.
    We should have sent the clowns from Duffy's Circus.


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  • #4642
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    tayto lover wrote: »
    They were elected on a tissue of lies. Straight and simple.
    What about the famous Five Point Plan now ?
    What about the "not another cent" bit ?
    What about the "we will not close hospitals" bit ?
    What about the "re-negotiation" bit ?

    They are more interested in getting their hair ruffled by Sarcozy and getting little pecks on the cheek from Angela for being the "best boys in the class ".
    They are too cowardly and meek to ask the important questions and because of that they have achieved absolutely nothing in Europe.
    We should have sent the clowns from Duffy's Circus.

    Duffy's clowns aren't stupid, they wouldn't become politicians.


  • #4643
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    Ghandee wrote: »
    Fyp.....

    You still havent distingushed the property tax/household charge from any other forms of taxation.


  • #4644
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Get on to Lowry for advice. Mine is taken at source. Very little you can do about that but you can do a lot about the Household Tax.

    Are you going to answer the question: Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

    After all, you believe you should not be legislatively obligated to pay your property tax/household charge as you believe it is unfair?


  • #4645
    Eire.
    Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭Eire.


    So....who is paying the household charge! not me


  • #4646
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    grindle wrote: »
    I said "I don't care if you do pay more income tax or not", not "I don't care if you pay tax at all."

    Should I be entitled not to pay income tax if i consider it unfair?
    grindle wrote: »
    The property/household tax isn't FOR anything.
    Its FOR the same thing as income tax is.


  • #4647
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I think drkpower is a retired doctor judging from some of his other posts, possibly a consultant.
    If this is the case sure a few hundred or even a few thousand in a household tax would be no problem to him.
    Sure they are some of the most cosseted and overpaid people in the country and if he's retired sure his pension is probably 2 or 3 times the average industrial wage anyway.
    Maybe he could confirm / deny this....

    Not a retired anything sadly.

    But are you suggesting that ability to pay would legitimise a property tax/household charge?


  • #4648
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,478 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    drkpower wrote: »
    Are you going to answer the question: Do you think i should not be legislatively obligated to pay my income tax if I believe it is unfair?

    After all, you believe you should not be legislatively obligated to pay your property tax/household charge as you believe it is unfair?

    That is a matter for you.
    I see it as unjust and will not pay. What you do is entirely your business. If I felt like you then I wouldn't pay. But I bet you will.


  • #4649
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    grindle wrote: »
    Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

    Your source?
    It was in the EU/IMF MOU.


  • #4650
    drkpower
    Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    tayto lover wrote: »
    That is a matter for you.
    I see it as unjust and will not pay. What you do is entirely your business. If I felt like you then I wouldn't pay. But I bet you will.

    So are you saying that I, or anyne else, should not be legislatively obligated to pay income tax if I/we consider it unfair?

    Can you think of any practical repurcussions of that position?


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  • #4651
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    grindle wrote: »
    Nope. They were elected in February 2011, the charge was brought up in July and Fine Gael's manifesto makes no mention of it.

    Your source?

    IMF bailout. You'll find water charges in there too. Whoever got elected into govt had to implement them or else say goodbye to our cosy way of life.

    It was well publicised back then so no excuse for anyone to have ignorance on the pending property tax issue.


This discussion has been closed.
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