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An open letter from Boards.ie to Minister Sean Sherlock

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    This is a few weeks old, sorry if it's been covered:

    http://www.cearta.ie/2012/02/why-crc12-is-not-sopaireland/
    In our Final Report, we hope to be able to provide draft heads of a Copyright and Related Rights (Innovation) (Amendment) Bill, 2012, (the Bill) to implement our recommendations. Moreover, one of the questions which we pose in the Paper is whether all of the amendments to the Copyright and Related Rights Act, 2000 (also here) which are still in force should be consolidated into that proposed Bill. If that is done, then the SI would be incorporated into the Bill, and there would be scope at that stage to revisit the issue. In particular, if there were matters that could not be addressed in the SI, due to the relatively limited scope allowed to SIs in amending principal Acts for EU reasons, there would be no reason why these matters could not be discussed for inclusion in that Bill.

    That, however, will be a matter for the Minister in due course.

    Sherlock still seems to be telling anyone questioning the SI to participate in the CRC review, for no obviously useful reason.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,344 ✭✭✭Thoie


    DeVore wrote: »
    Things may be in flux now... he just confirmed that Boards is not responsible for ANY links on our site it seems. Seriously... I dont know what to make of that.

    Read my timeline for context.

    https://twitter.com/#!/DeVore
    MungBean wrote: »
    I dont understand, if Boards is doing nothing wrong by linking to illegal sites then how are ISP's liable for doing the same ? It is the same thing isnt it ? They are doing nothing but acting as a conduit between the user and the illegal sites. So how can they be forced to block them while Boards isnt ?

    My reading of that exchange (and from other things that have been said) is that Boards would not be punished by legal action if they just bend over and remove the links on request. So that's nice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    DeVore wrote:
    Things may be in flux now... he just confirmed that Boards is not responsible for ANY links on our site it seems. Seriously... I dont know what to make of that.

    Read my timeline for context.

    https://twitter.com/#!/DeVore
    Ah, interesting; created a twitter account recently for something else, so decided it better to publicly send him some pointed questions I didn't get an adequate answer to in email, plus a couple more:
    https://twitter.com/#!/ShamblerBishop

    Can probably think of some better to ask, but haven't researched this in a while.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    Thoie wrote: »
    My reading of that exchange (and from other things that have been said) is that Boards would not be punished by legal action if they just bend over and remove the links on request. So that's nice.

    Ah yes I see now. So Boards cant be done for it being posted but can be done for not taking it down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,274 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Thoie wrote: »
    My reading of that exchange (and from other things that have been said) is that Boards would not be punished by legal action if they just bend over and remove the links on request. So that's nice.

    That's probably a fair policy but, if a Supreme Court decides differently......................

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭StupidLikeAFox


    Im not sure if sean sherlock can even make those demands considering the statutory instrument basically puts all the onus on the judges. From the wording of the SI, instesd of SOPA it should be called WWED (what would Europe do?)

    Have many of the posters here filled in the consultation survey? You dont have to fill it all in, just the parts that are relevant or you feel strongest about. If it got the scale of responses the stop sopa petition got it would be hard to ignore


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Basically as it was before so, once a site shows it's complying with takedowns then it's in the clear?


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    Who the f*ck knows. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭ItHurtsWhenIP


    HAH!

    I just realised that I got a reply from Sean Sherlock last Monday (12th March) to my e-mail to him on 26th January (thank the gods it wasn't anything urgent) ... The reply was sitting in my Junk folder!!! :eek:

    :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Thor


    MMFITWGDV wrote: »
    HAH!

    I just realised that I got a reply from Sean Sherlock last Monday (12th March) to my e-mail to him on 26th January (thank the gods it wasn't anything urgent) ... The reply was sitting in my Junk folder!!! :eek:

    :P

    Probably where it belongs.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Has anyone else automatically been signed up to a TD's mailing list as a result of sending this letter? Namely Simon Harris.... Poor form! :angry:


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    lol... thats actually illegal in the state without your permission :)

    Also, if it doesnt have an automatic way to unsubscribe I believe thats a no no too :)


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    lol... thats actually illegal in the state without your permission :)

    Also, if it doesnt have an automatic way to unsubscribe I believe thats a no no too :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭matrim


    Looks like the CRC have extended the consultancy period for the review process.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0320/copyright.html

    Also for anyone interested.
    A public meeting on the Copyright Review Committee's Consultation Paper will be held on Saturday from 10am until midday, in the Robert Emmet Lecture Theatre, Room 2037 Arts Block, Trinity College Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    DeVore wrote: »
    lol... thats actually illegal in the state without your permission :)

    Also, if it doesnt have an automatic way to unsubscribe I believe thats a no no too :)

    There are some Data Protection exemptions and outs for politicians under the Acts.
    2A. Processing of Personal Data

    (c) the processing is necessary
    (i) for the administration of justice,
    (ii) for the performance of a function conferred on a person by or under an enactment,
    (iii) for the performance of a function of the Government or a Minister of the Government,
    (iv) for the performance of any other function of a public nature performed in the public interest by a person,

    (iv) the processing (I) is carried out in the course of its legitimate activities by any body corporate, or
    unincorporated body of persons, that (
    A) is not established, and whose activities are not carried on, for profit, and
    (B) exists for political, philosophical, religious or tradeunion
    purposes,

    Potentially some fun with that if you founded an organisation that exists for 'philosophical' reasons.

    Above taken from a mish-mash (unofficial) of the 2003 & 1988 Acts on the DPC's website

    http://www.dataprotection.ie/documents/legal/compendiumAct.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    Well spoken today DeV.
    Very tempted to put in another submission in light of that meeting now.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    I was physically shaking from anger at one point today but wanted to stay calm to make my points. Felt like a turd in a swimming pool, but the panel were very receptive and I have a good feeling about this review if it isnt torpedoed by lobbyists.


  • Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    So another reply, this time from Michael Conaghan (this is in response to mail sent via the Board's form:
    Dear <Draco's real name>,

    Many thanks for your email in relation to SI 59/2012.

    Below you will find the text of a letter which I have recently received from my colleague Minister Séan Sherlock, in which he outlines the current position. I'm sure you will welcome Minister Sherlock's decision to open a broad consultation period on Ireland's copyright law in general, and would suggest that you consider making a submission.

    Many thanks for getting in touch with me on this, and I hope you will get in touch with me again on this or any other issue.

    All the best

    Michael

    Michael Conaghan TD

    He then had the form letter from Sean Sherlock.

    So two form letters for the price of one, albeit one was slightly personalized.


  • Subscribers Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Draco


    So another reply, this time from Michael Conaghan (this is in response to mail sent via the Board's form:
    Dear <Draco's real name>,

    Many thanks for your email in relation to SI 59/2012.

    Below you will find the text of a letter which I have recently received from my colleague Minister Séan Sherlock, in which he outlines the current position. I'm sure you will welcome Minister Sherlock's decision to open a broad consultation period on Ireland's copyright law in general, and would suggest that you consider making a submission.

    Many thanks for getting in touch with me on this, and I hope you will get in touch with me again on this or any other issue.

    All the best

    Michael

    Michael Conaghan TD

    He then had the form letter from Sean Sherlock.

    So two form letters for the price of one, albeit one was slightly personalized.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭matrim


    DeVore wrote: »
    I was physically shaking from anger at one point today but wanted to stay calm to make my points. Felt like a turd in a swimming pool, but the panel were very receptive and I have a good feeling about this review if it isnt torpedoed by lobbyists.

    Is there any recording of the meeting?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,419 ✭✭✭allanb49


    i got an letter from something Matthews to my mothers address about the email,

    Pretty much the same that has been posted here but in physical form.

    I gave no contact details in the email :S


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    matrim wrote: »
    Is there any recording of the meeting?

    Self-described freelance journalist in the row in front of me had a dictaphone out. Doubt he's releasing the audio though.


  • Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 32,387 Mod ✭✭✭✭DeVore


    would be interested in hearing it to be honest...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭Grudaire


    See below for my response from the boards email I sent to the local TD's. Only Patrick Nulty (semi rebel) Labour TD has responded. Apparently he asked a question in the Dáil!

    Anyway a lot of waffle with very little actual content from what I can read from it. Below if anyone is interested enough to read!
    Hi Cliste
    thanks for your recent e-mail regarding on-line copyright law.
    Please find below the update I have received today on this matter.
    Regards,
    Patrick Nulty TD



    DAIL QUESTION NO. 115





    To ask the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation if he will provide an update on the Copyright Review Committee review of Ireland's copyright legislation; if he will outline the terms of reference of the review and how citizens can contribute to the review; if the review will ensure that internet freedom is protected; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

    - Patrick Nulty.

    * For WRITTEN answer on Thursday, 29th March, 2012.

    Ref No: 17374/12



    R E P L Y


    Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation (Mr Sherlock)

    The Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation Richard Bruton T.D established the Copyright Review Committee on 9th May, 2011 to examine the current Copyright legislative framework to identify any areas of the legislation that might be deemed to create barriers to innovation and to make recommendations to resolve any problems identified. The Review will ultimately present a Report with a set of recommendations for legislative change.

    The Copyright Review Committee was established with the following terms of reference:

    1. Examine the present national Copyright legislation and identify any areas that are perceived to create barriers to innovation.
    2. Identify solutions for removing these barriers and make recommendations as to how these solutions might be implemented through changes to national legislation.
    3. Examine the US style ‘fair use’ doctrine to see if it would be appropriate in an Irish/EU context.
    4. If it transpires that national copyright legislation requires to be amended but cannot be amended, (bearing in mind that Irish copyright legislation is bound by the European Communities Directives on Copyright and Related Rights and other international obligations) make recommendations for changes to the EU Directives that will eliminate the barriers to innovation and optimise the balance between protecting creativity and promoting and facilitating innovation.

    The membership of the independent Committee is Dr. Eoin O’Dell (Trinity College Dublin), (Chair), Patricia McGovern (DFMG Solicitors, Dublin) and Prof. Steve Hedley (University College, Cork).

    The Committee conducted an initial consultation process during the summer of 2011 and received over 100 submissions from interested parties. The Committee held a well-attended and particularly fruitful public meeting on 4th July 2011 in Trinity College Dublin.

    The Committee issued a Consultation Paper on 29th February, 2012 which sets out the issues and concerns which were expressed to the Committee in the aforementioned submissions from a broad spectrum of interested parties. The Committee explores various options to address these concerns in the light of the Terms of Reference and the Paper also poses questions on these matters.

    The Committee has established a further consultation process based on the issues and concerns addressed in the Consultation Paper and are inviting further submissions from all affected or concerned by the issues raised in the Paper including information providers and ISPs, innovators, rightsholders, consumers and end-users. The Committee also held a further public meeting on 24th March, 2012 for the purpose of facilitating discussion in relation to the issues raised in the Consultation Paper. The closing date for the receipt of submissions is 5.00 pm on Thursday 31st May 2012. The Committee will then evaluate the further submissions and prepare a Final Report.

    The Committee now has a dedicated website at http://www.djei.ie/science/ipr/crc.htm
    and it will be directly linked from the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation’s homepage until the Review process is complete. The Committee’s site provides information regarding the various ways to participate in the consultation process. As well as by post and email, the Committee has prepared an online questionnaire url]https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CRC12[/url to reply to the questions they pose in the Consultation Paper. It is available from the Committee’s website.

    The Irish Internet Association have also provided a mechanism for online submissions to collate its members’ views and to gather the views of others on the Paper, using a structured mechanism for feedback. All stakeholders are welcome to complete the questionnaire and responses will be sent directly to the department upon closing of the survey. The questionnaire is available on the Irish Internet Association website at url]http://www.iia.ie/feedback/[/url.

    The Minister wishes to inform the Deputy that the Copyright Review Committee are an independent body and therefore, it would not be appropriate for him to comment at this juncture on any issues which are being considered by the Committee in the context of their ongoing review of the legislation.

    However, the Minister would like to call on all interested parties to engage fully with the ongoing work of the Copyright Review Committee and strongly encourages all those interested in these matters to give careful study to the Consultation Paper and to put forward their views to the Copyright Review Committee.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,360 ✭✭✭Dartz


    Cliste wrote: »
    See below for my response from the boards email I sent to the local TD's. Only Patrick Nulty (semi rebel) Labour TD has responded. Apparently he asked a question in the Dáil!

    Anyway a lot of waffle with very little actual content from what I can read from it. Below if anyone is interested enough to read!

    I received this too. Was actually quite glad to get a response, I thought my mail had dissapearred into the void like so many job applications, never to be heard from again

    While there's nothing there that doesn't appear to have been mentioned in this thread.... considering I had to be linked here and couldn't find it, a lot of it was news to me. And I do intend to read through the Paper.

    Or at least make an attempt at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭matrim


    I have received a response to my FOI request for the submissions and it was positive. I got a package that was over 100 pages with what I assume is all the submissions.

    Unfortunately I'm not in Ireland to scan them myself so I'll have to see what I can get my family to do with them but will have them online as soon as I can.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,375 ✭✭✭DoesNotCompute


    allanb49 wrote: »
    i got an letter from something Matthews to my mothers address about the email,

    Pretty much the same that has been posted here but in physical form.

    I gave no contact details in the email :S

    They matched your name with their constituent's database, which is derived from the voter's register. You must still be registered to vote at your mother's address.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    matrim wrote: »
    I have received a response to my FOI request for the submissions and it was positive. I got a package that was over 100 pages with what I assume is all the submissions.

    Unfortunately I'm not in Ireland to scan them myself so I'll have to see what I can get my family to do with them but will have them online as soon as I can.
    Send them to me if you want and I'll scan them in no problem. Pm me if you want my details.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,739 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    allanb49 wrote: »
    i got an letter from something Matthews to my mothers address about the email,

    Pretty much the same that has been posted here but in physical form.

    I gave no contact details in the email :S

    we know where you live!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭_AVALANCHE_




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