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what do you do if you are expected to organise a catholic funeral?

  • 13-08-2010 7:41am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 17,812 ✭✭✭✭


    At some stage (hopefully a decade off) my remaining parent will bow to the inevitable. My wider family will be expecting a traditional funeral. What do you do? My preference would be a quick cremation and go for a meal with my close family. Instead I cant see how to avoid the "circus" with the frock man telling me where he imagines where my departed is in the universe.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭MrsMcSteamy


    Well my 2 cents on the matter would be what would your parent want ? Have you discussed it with them? As it will be a celebration of their life and the last thing you can do for them as son/daughter then you should do everything that they wish for and put personal feelings aside for the day.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Do you have so little repect for your parents that you see their funeral as a f**king inconvenience?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    silverharp wrote: »
    At some stage (hopefully a decade off) my remaining parent will bow to the inevitable. My wider family will be expecting a traditional funeral. What do you do? My preference would be a quick cremation and go for a meal with my close family. Instead I cant see how to avoid the "circus" with the frock man telling me where he imagines where my departed is in the universe.

    Any idea what your parent wants? Thats your answer if you want a definitive one. Weird topic to bring up, but maybe you could find an indirect way to bring the subject up at some stage. If they want the big Catholic funeral that's what you should do. If they want to be buried at sea, at midnight, then that's what you should do.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Whatever the parent wants the parent gets.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    silverharp wrote: »
    At some stage (hopefully a decade off) my remaining parent will bow to the inevitable. My wider family will be expecting a traditional funeral. What do you do?
    Far as I know, a deceased has little or no prior legal control over what kind of funeral that they're going to have. That said, you'd be a dick if you didn't do what they'd want. Have you considered that they might be worried that you might do something like cremate them and stick them in a jar on the mantelpiece?

    I think it would be best for you to discuss what they want, and then come up with a plan that you and they are happy with. Then stick to it!
    As it will be a celebration of their life
    Catholic funerals are not allowed to be celebrations of anyone's life. It's a few years I've seen the rules, but far as I recall, you're not allowed to deliver any kind of a speech at all about them and are really supposed to talk about them (a) in relation to the church and (b) talk up the catholic view that the person isn't dead at all but just resting.

    My own grandfather died a few years ago just a few months shy of his 100th birthday and there was a good turnout for the funeral. For various reasons the coffin was draped in the Irish flag on its way to the church, but when we reached the door, the priest was ready for us and told is to remove the flag and replace it with a cross-encrusted drape (who's boss, eh?!). Being the eldest grandchild, but an atheist, I wasn't invited to say anything from the pulpit as a few other more compliant grandchildren were. Not that they were allowed to say very much, anyway, since I believe their short comments had to be pre-approved by the priest. The priest spoke for perhaps ten minutes, only one or two of which were related to granddad who -- as he mentioned -- had only converted from protestantism to catholicism in the first place so that he could marry my grandmother. The whole thing went on for an hour or so and could have been a funeral for just about anybody, save the church was full of people I knew.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    You should whatever your parents want, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

    It would be extremely selfish and insenstive if you went for a secular ceremony, putting your wishes ahead of theirs and ignoring what they wanted.

    Also remember you are, I assume, not the only child or blood relation. Listen to everyon'e opinions and ideas. It's not all up to you.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I'd be fairly sure when a death occurs, a call to the deceased's Parish Priest will get you all the information you need.

    I'm bemused as to why this is bothering you now, though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    silverharp wrote: »
    Instead I cant see how to avoid the "circus" with the frock man telling me where he imagines where my departed is in the universe.

    then dont attend

    you can still organise it for the wider family


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    robindch wrote: »
    It's a few years I've seen the rules, but far as I recall, you're not allowed to deliver any kind of a speech at all about them and are really supposed to talk about them (a) in relation to the church and (b) talk up the catholic view that the person isn't dead at all but just resting.

    :confused:I dont know if there are actually 'rules' on this type of thing, but if there are, very few churches that i have been to actually abide by them. One of my parents died quite a few years ago and there was no difficulty whatsoever with one of the family members giving a eulogy which didnt mention catholicism, heaven, the church or God once..... Similar experience with other funerals ive been to. The reality is, at a loved ones funeral, if you want to say a few words (with no reference to God) just tell the priest you are going to say something, go up there and say it. Unless the guy is an idiot, he isnt going to wave the rulebook at you. If he does, he deserves the likely reaction of a grieving family member:mad:.

    As for the OP (forgive me if I am mis-interpreting your words, if that is what i am doing), this is an example of what I dislike about the attitudes of many atheists (and I am one). It is not about you; when it comes to someone elses funeral, noone cares whether you believe it is a circus, or whether you believe there is no heaven. It is about what they want or what the family thinks he would have wanted. Get involved (to the extent that you can), absorb what he wants/wanted; put your principles aside for one moment; dont revel in the sense of being wronged by the silly frock-men. Do what your loved one would have wanted you to do. There are plenty of opportunities to take up the crusade; this isnt one of them.


  • Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    icon4.gif

    MOD EDIT

    -- Completely disproportionate abusive reaction snipped --

    RoverJames taking a ban.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    drkpower wrote: »
    As for the OP (forgive me if I am mis-interpreting your words, if that is what i am doing), this is an example of what I dislike about the attitudes of many atheists (and I am one). It is not about you; when it comes to someone elses funeral, noone cares whether you believe it is a circus, or whether you believe there is no heaven. It is about what they want or what the family thinks he would have wanted.

    In fairness, the same can be said to theists.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    In fairness, the same can be said to theists.

    Absolutely; but thay have an excuse of believing in all that crazy sh!t and beleiving that they need to spread the word etc. We dont.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    drkpower wrote: »
    I don't know if there are actually 'rules' on this type of thing
    The General Instruction of the Roman Missal fifth is the Vatican document which describes what it thinks should happen in and around masses. In chapter 8, section 2 (paragraph 338) it talks about funerals:
    At the funeral Mass there should as a rule be a short homily, but never a eulogy of any kind.
    drkpower wrote: »
    there are, very few churches that i have been to actually abide by them
    And I've never been to a catholic church which allowed anything more than the briefest comments about the dead person -- as above, not more than a couple of minutes of person-specific stuff, with the rest all running to formula. A few priests might no doubt loosen the rules from time to time, but in general, the rules are strict.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    As it happens the undertakers take care of the whole thing, from arranging the service, paying the priest/minster, paying the cemeteries fees etc.

    You actually have very little to do, at least that's my experience.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I've been to a couple of funerals in the last few years where the sons have rattled on about their Dads at length, telling anecdotes and trying generally to be cheery.

    If there's a policy it's either not enforced or unenforceable.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Ah, here's the thing I was looking for:

    Archbishop Brady Says Funerals About God, Not the Dead
    [...the officiating priest...] "has fully consulted and involved the family in the choice of rites and texts most suitable for the occasion, he is well placed to deal with requests by members of the family to speak after the prayer after Communion. Such requests should be firmly, but sensitively, refused."


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,824 ✭✭✭ShooterSF


    You should whatever your parents want, nothing more and certainly nothing less.

    It would be extremely selfish and insenstive if you went for a secular ceremony, putting your wishes ahead of theirs and ignoring what they wanted.

    Also remember you are, I assume, not the only child or blood relation. Listen to everyon'e opinions and ideas. It's not all up to you.

    Agree with this. Though I guess due to our beliefs us atheists get the poo covered end of the stick here a bit.

    I remember a similar thread here before asking what kind of funeral one would like and I'm sure some people got stick for refusing to let parents (if they survived them) to have a church funeral to comfort them. I guess that comes with the territory of a belief that when I'm dead I wont know or care what you do with my carcass.

    Strange though, on topic, I'm not sure what my parents want. My mother is a deist but to my wider family - an Irish catholic. Dad, I think believes its all a load of bollocks but keeps it to himself. It's not an easy conversation to approach. They might get a bit nervous round me if I start asking what kind of funeral they want.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    I actually had this conversation with my mother recently. She just wants a small non religious service and she wants to be cremated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭checkyabadself


    An answer to the OP.....

    Ask a religious sibling/ relative to phone the priest to organise the religious ceremonies that you are unfamiliar with, then either phone a hotel and book a room for the afternoon for dinner/ drinks, or start making tea/sandwiches at the relatives home. Don't forget to call to neighbours to borrow chairs. It's one of the first things you realise when people start pouring in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,650 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    At my cousin's Catholic funeral (it was in England, if that makes any difference) his two brothers and father were free to go up to the mantle and give very personal, beautiful, quite funny eulogies.

    They talked about old memories of my cousin when he was younger, and read out a card he wrote to my aunt and uncle as a thank you for all their support as he finished college (a few months before his sudden death :()

    It was a lovely service. It really was a celebration of his life, and was full of happy memories and some laughter. Music was played from his iPod and everything. (The Top Gun theme, it was quite fitting, really)

    My Mum's family is very religious, and I have been to several funerals of granduncles, etc in my youth. While they were, as far as I can remember, much more sombre events than my cousin's funeral, there still was the personal touch, family members giving their eulogies, etc.

    I think, however, in this case, it's because the priest knew these people personally.

    Anyway, OP, to answer your question. No. I wouldn't ignore my parent's beliefs and wishes and give them a secular send-off because I couldn't be bothered with all the correspondence. No offence, but I'm just not that selfish.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,475 ✭✭✭drkpower


    robindch wrote: »
    A few priests might no doubt loosen the rules from time to time, but in general, the rules are strict.

    We must be going to different churches;). Ive been to enough funerals where the family have delivered a eulogy (non God-dominated) which suggests that the rules are not as strictly applied as you imagine them to be. Seems that there are a few others here with a similar experience to mine.

    Again, if the priest isn't playing ball, just say 'grand, at the end of the mass, I just want to tell people where to go for the afters', then give an hour-long eulogy - let the parish priest pull you off if he wants....;)

    * - clerical abuse double-entendre not intended


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    drkpower wrote: »
    Ive been to enough funerals where the family have delivered a eulogy (non God-dominated) which suggests that the rules are not as strictly applied as you imagine them to be.
    Quite possibly -- I must say I don't get invited to that many church services :)

    But the rules are as I've posted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    robindch wrote: »
    Quite possibly -- I must say I don't get invited to that many church services :)

    But the rules are as I've posted.

    But they aren't, not in practice anyway. Maybe you go to a particularly strict church?

    I've been to plenty of funerals and have yet to see the priest refuse to allow a euology or stop the family brining in items important to the deceased.

    For instance I was recently a funeral where the elderly man who had passed away was a Jockey when he was young and the family had his jockey colours and pictures of him on horseback next to the coffin. His eldest son gave a lovely and funny euology as the priest who had been a good friend of the family. No pontificating or talking about heaven, just lovely words about the man and thanks for the memories.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,758 ✭✭✭Stercus Accidit


    Slightly off-topic, but is it possible to book a secular venue for a funeral? Both my parents have rejected religion long ago and while I am hoping such an event is a long way away, is it even possible to book a secular funeral venue?


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    silverharp wrote: »
    At some stage (hopefully a decade off) my remaining parent will bow to the inevitable. My wider family will be expecting a traditional funeral. What do you do?

    If you do not know already what your parent wants, then ask them.
    It's their funeral and they get to chose exactly how they want to be sent off, not you.
    I've already told my OH and daughter exactly what I want.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,382 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    But they aren't, not in practice anyway. Maybe you go to a particularly strict church?
    I'm an atheist, I don't go to church :)

    I have, however, been at perhaps one funeral per year since I don't know when and during all these services, I can recall three eulogies that lasted longer than couple of minutes. Two of these were delivered by the same guy who's equivalent in rank to a bishop and the people he was talking about were linked to the church (one was a monk, the other lived close by), while the other one took place in south Dublin and was, no doubt, exactly the kind of eulogy that Archbishop Brady was complaining about when he said that they should be "refused".
    No pontificating or talking about heaven, just lovely words about the man and thanks for the memories.
    I think that's exactly what a funeral should be about -- a celebration of the dead person and their positive contribution to the lives of their family and friends, and there's no better way of honoring the dead. But that's still not allowed, at least according to official church policy anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,812 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    ruffled a few collars there. Thankfully the person in question is quite a low key person so is not expecting a fleet of mercs or horse drawn carriage. And no i'm not going to be an ass about it, their wishes will be carried out. From experince though funerals here can get out of control expecially country ones, and people can come out with the most unblievable crap. For instance a neighbour's child died recently and the grand mother had died the week before, I overheard another neigbour spout something to the effect that the grand mother went first to watch over the child. Had somebody said that to me I'd mentally want to chin them.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    I don't mean for this to sound harsh or uncaring but WHY should it be about what the parent wants? He or she will be dead. The grieving family left behind are what matters at that stage. Go for whatever is easiest for yourselves.

    When i die (and I've made this perfectly clear to my family) my loved ones left behind are to do whatever makes things easier for THEM. Any other instructions from me would be selfish on my part. After all I'll be dead and without feelings. Why should it matter to me how my body is disposed of?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭Truley


    silverharp wrote: »
    For instance a neighbour's child died recently and the grand mother had died the week before, I overheard another neigbour spout something to the effect that the grand mother went first to watch over the child. Had somebody said that to me I'd mentally want to chin them.

    Bit harsh no? :confused:


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,548 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Choochtown wrote: »
    I don't mean for this to sound harsh or uncaring but WHY should it be about what the parent wants? He or she will be dead. The grieving family left behind are what matters at that stage. Go for whatever is easiest for yourselves.
    I don't think I'd want you looking after my remains. :pac:

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