Drinking during pregnancy!

MagicMarker · 10-07-2008 7:07pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Why stress about something which has no evidence of harm associated with it? in spite of studies having been carried out.
(I fully expect you to reply to this with a study involving alcoholics, or something... not relevant at all to what we are talking about, alcohol in very limited quantities.)

No, it's your logic that is flawed.
The other things you have mentioned are all proven to cause harm. As alcohol is, in excessive quantities.
It would be prudent to avoid it altogether in early pregnancy, as if there is any tiny risk that is when it will be. (It would help if Irish people could manage to have sex without getting drunk first)

That's not what anyone is saying.

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise. If it's prudent not to drink at all during the first 3 months then why start after that? Does it suddenly become good for the unborn baby? Of course not. So regardless of risks, why introduce alcohol into an unborn babys system? You wouldn't do it after the child is born (i'd hope not anyway), so why do it before hand? Because it's exactly the same thing.

The truth is that it's still very much unclear how much alcohol is needed to created problems after birth or even later on in life.

I just know that i'd rather be safe than sorry.

nesf · 10-07-2008 7:12pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise.

Link to studies then to back that up and lets debate this properly.

Ludo · 10-07-2008 7:18pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise. If it's prudent not to drink at all during the first 3 months then why start after that? Does it suddenly become good for the unborn baby?

Don't know if you have read all this topic or not Magic, so I will just say this here again. Some consultants say red wine (a glass every so often) is no harm as it apparently helps circulation or something. I'm sure there are better ways of achieving the same results without alcohol of course but that probably involves drugs which may be as harmful.

This whole alcohol thing is a lot of the usual scaremongering because there are some people who may read that alcohol is not known to be any harm in small quantities and take that as a license to drink all round them while pregnant.

Of course those people are probably going to drink to excess anyway regardless of what they are told so it is a bit pointless.

MagicMarker · 10-07-2008 7:46pm

Ludo wrote: »

Don't know if you have read all this topic or not Magic, so I will just say this here again. Some consultants say red wine (a glass every so often) is no harm as it apparently helps circulation or something. I'm sure there are better ways of achieving the same results without alcohol of course but that probably involves drugs which may be as harmful.

This whole alcohol thing is a lot of the usual scaremongering because there are some people who may read that alcohol is not known to be any harm in small quantities and take that as a license to drink all round them while pregnant.

Of course those people are probably going to drink to excess anyway regardless of what they are told so it is a bit pointless.

And i'm sure there are some consultants who say otherwise.

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

This is my point, there's nothing set in stone, no one really knows for sure. Just like i don't know, just like you don't know!

All i'm saying is why take the chance?

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1502/63
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/421/62
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-03/ace-ltm030804.php
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/preg/a/blacer040316.htm

faceman · 10-07-2008 7:46pm

nesf wrote: »

Link to studies then to back that up and lets debate this properly.

Im not a member of the BMJ so i cant link to all articles but they have published studies for and against. Here are some other articles for and against.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7605/1186-a?maxtoshow

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7488/375?maxtoshow=

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/27000506/

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyle/alcohol/pregnancy.html

Ludo · 10-07-2008 8:03pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

And i'm sure there are some consultants who say otherwise.

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

This is my point, there's nothing set in stone, no one really knows for sure. Just like i don't know, just like you don't know!

All i'm saying is why take the chance?

Agreed in general...and that is why we are up to page 7. There is no definitive answer to this one as of now so some people will not take any chances (perfectly understandable) but just as many will be willing to take the negligible risk (no evidence to back up that claim other than the fact everyone I know who has been pregnant has had a glass of wine...and none of them are big drinkers).

nesf · 10-07-2008 8:03pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

Not really no, what defines light drinking is a key issue here. Some put the limit on one or two units a week, others at an average of one unit per day (which is very different, one unit a day is definitely not the same as seven units on a Friday night every week.

There is debate, but the medical consensus seems to be that anything more than light drinking using either of the above definitions is damaging and there's plenty of evidence of this. The public policy consensus is that telling people to abstain from alcohol is more effective than telling them they can indulge in light drinking because a) people have trouble just having the one and b) most people can't tell what one unit of alcohol actually is, especially in a bar.

There are two sides to this, there isn't much evidence of damage at one to two units a week; however, advising people to abstain is preferable. The problem is that the second point doesn't mean that we should tell people that one small glass of wine a week is going to damage their child. Abstaining is safer, but then so is never going on a car journey or eating foods you haven't prepared yourself. There's a reasonable line people can draw on these things relative to the risk involved.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-07-2008 2:10pm

nesf wrote: »

The public policy consensus is that telling people to abstain from alcohol is more effective than telling them they can indulge in light drinking

In other words, treat the public as idiots, we know what's best... :mad:

because a) people have trouble just having the one

I don't find this credible, plenty of people have no trouble having just the one if they have a strong reason to do so - e.g. driving, or pregnancy.

The only people who really cannot trust themselves to stop at one are alcoholics. (I knew we'd get back to alcoholism even though it is totally irrelevant to this thread...)

and b) most people can't tell what one unit of alcohol actually is, especially in a bar.

I think most people know the difference between having one small drink (e.g. small glass of wine, not the ones that are practically half a bottle) and one large one - and the difference between having one drink to enjoy it, and having one drink to whet one's appetite for a night's drinking.

Pub glasses of wine (1/4 btl) and pub measures are a lot more standardised than what you get drinking in someone's home. So it would probably be easier in a bar to know exactly what you are drinking.

There's a reasonable line people can draw on these things relative to the risk involved.

Sure and we need to ensure people are informed (with the truth, no scaremongering or exaggeration by the govt.) and then let them make their decision.

MagicMarker, three months is when your baby is basically formed and just has to grow and mature. Exposure to radation, chemicals etc. which cause mutation (alcohol isn't one, afaik) is most dangerous before that time.

nesf · 11-07-2008 3:39pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Sure and we need to ensure people are informed (with the truth, no scaremongering or exaggeration by the govt.) and then let them make their decision.

Sure but most people won't go to the trouble of being informed and just want a simple bit of advice to follow. Advocating abstinence is a straightforward policy approach that minimises risk to the unborn child. It may be overkill in terms of safety but that's better than the alternative.

Quality · 14-07-2008 9:13pm

http://www.ndc.hrb.ie/articles.php?drart=182&issid=13

According to this research done 63% of women drink during pregnancy.

dubman25 · 14-07-2008 9:17pm

no not even 1 drink...i mean its like 9-10 months out of your life without drinking big deal!!!1 drink and the baby is actually drinking it also:eek:and you are putting the baby at huge risk of problems even in future life!!the women who drink even 1 deserve to have the worse birth ever and be in lots and lots of pain after it!!!:Dbitc*s

nesf · 14-07-2008 9:51pm

dubman25 wrote: »

no not even 1 drink...i mean its like 9-10 months out of your life without drinking big deal!!!1 drink and the baby is actually drinking it also:eek:and you are putting the baby at huge risk of problems even in future life!!the women who drink even 1 deserve to have the worse birth ever and be in lots and lots of pain after it!!!:Dbitc*s

Banned for trolling. One week, to start with anyway.

tallaght01 · 15-07-2008 10:17am

The Royal College of Obstetricians+Gynaecologists in the UK have a nice webpage about this issue. They're pretty sensible, and they provide pretty good advice.

They will admit that nobody knows what a safe limit is. Contrary to what a lot of people say on message boards, there's not plenty of evidence either way, except at the extremes, when you're dealing with fetal alcohol syndrome etc.

But CURRENTLY there's not a lot of evidence to say that 1 or 2 units once or twice a week is harmful. But it could be. The type of studies that would be needed to prove the point either way would be unethical to perform.

So, no-one really knows all the answers, but the royal college have a common sense set of guidelines available at:

http://www.rcog.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1816

They conclude that if you want to be sure you're not exposing the baby to harm, then you need to abstain. In view of the limited evidence out there, that is really the only sensible conclusion that you can draw.

They also outline their suggested limits if you're going to drink during pregnancy.

But htis info will change over time, so it's important to get the most up to date info from your healthcare team when the issue arises for you.

Crea · 23-07-2008 4:44pm

Don't smoke. Had about 3 drinks in total during my last pregnancy. Glass of wine at Christmas, wedding anniversary and family funeral. Why? Because I like the taste of wine and missed it.
What gets me about this thread is the attitude that people drink for the effect ie: to get pissed. No wonder we have so many drink related problems in this country. There are some people who are able to stop at 1 and are happy to drink just 1 because I enhances the dining experience, relaxes after a busy day etc.

LolaDub · 24-07-2008 12:17am

Crea wrote: »

Don't smoke. Had about 3 drinks in total during my last pregnancy. Glass of wine at Christmas, wedding anniversary and family funeral. Why? Because I like the taste of wine and missed it.
What gets me about this thread is the attitude that people drink for the effect ie: to get pissed. No wonder we have so many drink related problems in this country. There are some people who are able to stop at 1 and are happy to drink just 1 because I enhances the dining experience, relaxes after a busy day etc.

Crea i understand your point, i enjoy wine in this way too but not when i'm pregnant. There are a ton of bad days during pregnancy, hitting the bottle to relieve it is a dangerous option. The thread isn't about people drinking just to get pissed,it is about whether there is a social stigma attached to pregnant women who drink and what the medical implications are. It is a topic that includes a lot of strong points but the main point is the question of whether it hurrts the baby or not, those who think there is a chance of it tend to abstain while those who feel it is safe tend to indulge in the odd drink.

MagicMarker · 24-07-2008 12:26am

''enhances the dining experience''? :rolleyes:

Crea, would you give your new born baby alcohol?

Nevyn · 24-07-2008 1:49am

MagicMarker just don't seriously just don't.

Crea · 24-07-2008 6:17pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

''enhances the dining experience''? :rolleyes:

Crea, would you give your new born baby alcohol?

No - I wouldn't give my newborn cornflakes either but that won't stop me from eating them. Don't lecture me about the difference between cornflakes and alcohol i'm not an idiot.
Perhaps I wasn't clear but the second part of my post wasn't related specifically to drinking in pregnancy but about the attitude to having only 1 drink. I was describing where people can be happy only to have 1 glass of wine.

Loladub - one glass of wine on a special occasion is not "hitting the bottle".
There were a number of comments asking what the point of having only 1 drink was and seemed incredulous that a pregnant woman would stop at that.
It just struck me that people had the attitude that one only drinks to get drunk and that's why I mentioned it. I promise in future I won't deviate from the original post.:p

LolaDub · 24-07-2008 10:11pm

Crea i believe the people that were posting why would you bother at one drink were saying that if you limit yourself to one drink for the sake of your baby then why drink at all while pregnant?

If you have the drink to relax surely there are other ways you can achieve this? I'm not saying you should not drink i am just answering your post with my thoughts. I do not feel its good to drink while pregnant because the possible side effects scare the be jaysus out of me. Other women obviously have more confidence that the baby will be fine and feel free to have the odd drink. There's nothing to say 100% that either is true, comes down to you.

Crea · 25-07-2008 1:18am

Loladub - just a quick answer to your question. I'm happy to have just 1 drink to have a little taste. I do truly believe that such a low level of alcohol has no adverse affect on the baby especially since it was done so rarely.
The ill effects of drinking like low birth weight and FAS seem to be in babies of women drinking 15-20 units a week. 15 units is around a pint a day so consumption doesn't have to be huge.
Did pregnancy yogo for relaxation - highly recommend it.

Lillyella · 06-08-2008 1:06am

I think its ironic the amount of men who have replied on this topic, with quotes such as "If I was a woman, I wouldn't drink during pregnancy" or even women who have never undergone a pregnancy claiming that they wouldn't either.

How do you know? Until you are in that position you have absolutely no idea how you would react to alcohol.

I am getting from a lot of these replies that the perception is that women who are pregnant should sit at home and wait in anticipation for nine months, putting their entire lives on hold due to their precious cargo.

Any woman who enjoys a drink or even two has no less love and respect for their unborn baby than those who wish to remain tea total.

Along with all the stresses and strains that go along with pregnancy which men will NEVER understand, not being able to relax over a few drinks is a much missed luxury (well for me anyway).

I'm in my second trimester of pregnancy, I've had a couple of drinks here and there. My consultant (one of the top in the country) told me to enjoy a glass of wine if I felt the need.

I don't feel guilty in the slightest about it, I'm a great Mum to my children who are all healthy, and I'll be just a good Mum to this one and I don't think that any woman who enjoys a drink (in moderation of course) should be made feel guilty by any of the preachers on this thread.

MagicMarker · 06-08-2008 2:07am

What if there were complications with your pregnancy further down the line?

Nice generalizations by the way, good job!

Lillyella · 06-08-2008 10:08am

MagicMarker wrote: »

What if there were complications with your pregnancy further down the line?

I would have the good sense to realise that they were NOTHING to do with the limited amount of alcohol I have consumed.

Lillyella · 06-08-2008 10:14am

Just another point (cant shut a pregnant woman up

)

I think it would be foolish of ANY woman to take the opinions on this thread seriously, even my own.

Go by what your Doctor or Consultant tells you, they are the experts, they have trained for numerous years for their qualifications.

Anyone can pull stats or studies from the net, doesn't take much effort.

If your Doctor tells you to abstain completely, then he has good reason to do so, if on the other hand, like mine, he tells you to use your common sense, and enjoy the occassional glass of wine, then don't feel an ounce of guilt if you choose to do so either.

pixiestix · 19-09-2008 6:28pm

Quality wrote: »

Ok thanks you for your point of view.

Would anyone else like to give their views on drinking in pregnancy?

i guess i shouldnt eat ham sambos either, cos all the salt, or breath in when i am in the city centre, cos god forbid i might inhale germs...these are the little things that help a babies immune learn to fight, they are needed.....i think the worst thing you can do is wrap you lil roundy self up in cotton wool and start resenting people and places, having the odd drink is fine, babies are born with disabilities to parents who never drank or smoked, i just dont see the point in totally depriving yourself of something, when really a little bit will probably cheer you up when you are having a rotter of a preggers day....chilling in a lovely bath with a little white wine spritzer can be best thing for mother and baby as it makes mammy happy, relaxed and calm, which in turn makes baby happy...

..but that is just my opinion

ntlbell · 20-09-2008 6:41pm

pixiestix wrote: »

i guess i shouldnt eat ham sambos either, cos all the salt, or breath in when i am in the city centre, cos god forbid i might inhale germs...these are the little things that help a babies immune learn to fight, they are needed.....i think the worst thing you can do is wrap you lil roundy self up in cotton wool and start resenting people and places, having the odd drink is fine, babies are born with disabilities to parents who never drank or smoked, i just dont see the point in totally depriving yourself of something, when really a little bit will probably cheer you up when you are having a rotter of a preggers day....chilling in a lovely bath with a little white wine spritzer can be best thing for mother and baby as it makes mammy happy, relaxed and calm, which in turn makes baby happy...

..but that is just my opinion

Nonsense.

Young kids are dieing of all type's of cancer's who never drank or smoke, this doesn't mean that they should.

Like everything in life you should where possible do your best to give yoursrelf and your unborn/born etc the best chance possible WHERE POSSIBLE. eating as good a diet as possible, exercising not abusing drink or drugs etc etc etc

But just because people smoke till there 90 and don't die of cancer everyone should smoke it's about given your unborn THE BEST CHANCE POOSIBLE

You don't have to drink, drink doesn't do anything GOOD for the baby but even if there's the smallest tiniest possible chance in the world it might then as you don't NEED to drink you would be better of not drinking

is this a difficult concept to understand?

It's very possible you will have to breath to live

during this breating process that keeps you alive you might inhale all sorts of crap but you HAVE to breath to keep you and the child alive you don't HAVE to drink.

seeing a common theme yet?

TargetWidow · 27-09-2008 11:14pm

Over 60% of Irish women drink during pregnancy. That to me seems like alot. I'm not gonna get into judging anyone else's choices for their babies or themselves but personally I didn't. It wasn't a big deal for me at all. Now if they had said that Maltesers were a no-go area I would have had a problem. I guess that makes me a chocoholic! Baba is 25 weeks old and I just had my 1st glass of wine last weekend. Not really comfy with drinking anymore as I'd be nervous of whether if some emergency came up in the middle of the night would I be able to react fast enough. (I get befuddled and hazy and comfy after 2 glasses and I leave it at that!) (Hubby works nights so I'm always alone at night). And the very idea of dealing with my daughter with me in anything less than a fabulous mood in the morning is unthinkable. So it's Lorina lemonade and Maltesers for me till I have someone to look after her for me that night and the morning after.:)

newwifey · 30-09-2008 4:50pm

The blood thinning properties of red wine are well reported.
My father, who has heart problems used to take warfrin to thin his blood. His doc told him a glass of red wine would be better than his medication. Unfortunately dad didn't drink

I once read, that in France, women are generally recommended to have a glass of wine daily to keep the blood thin and therefore nutrients flowing to the baby from the mothers blood stream.

What if a daily glass of wine was actually beneficial??

MrsA · 02-10-2008 12:04pm

This is my third pregnancy and I don't ever drink while pregnant. I just cannot see the point to be honest. I know opinion is changing all the time but, I think it is unlikely that I am doing harm by abstaining.

From the moment I found out I was pregnant each time, I "tried" to do everything in my power to ensure my baby was as healthy as possible, some things you cannot avoid, but, some you can.

M

pixiestix · 13-10-2008 2:42pm

ntlbell wrote: »

Nonsense.

Young kids are dieing of all type's of cancer's who never drank or smoke, this doesn't mean that they should.

Like everything in life you should where possible do your best to give yoursrelf and your unborn/born etc the best chance possible WHERE POSSIBLE. eating as good a diet as possible, exercising not abusing drink or drugs etc etc etc

But just because people smoke till there 90 and don't die of cancer everyone should smoke it's about given your unborn THE BEST CHANCE POOSIBLE

You don't have to drink, drink doesn't do anything GOOD for the baby but even if there's the smallest tiniest possible chance in the world it might then as you don't NEED to drink you would be better of not drinking

is this a difficult concept to understand?

It's very possible you will have to breath to live during this breating process that keeps you alive you might inhale all sorts of crap but you HAVE to breath to keep you and the child alive you don't HAVE to drink.

seeing a common theme yet?

nonsense? whatever, i can have my opinions, and for a man to tell me what i do in my pregnancy is nonsense is just pathetic, i would love to see a man go thru what women go thru in pregnancy and childbirth and all the aftercare and breastfeeding, hell, men cant even cope with "man flu" so you can stick your "nonsense" comment right up your wazzoo, and i will sip my ONE glass of wine tonight, happy in the knowledge that the 3 other glasses of wine i had when i was pregnant didn't harm my daughter in any way, shape or form.

Each pregnant woman knows what is and is not good for her, each pregnant woman is totally different, don't condemn someone for something you will never know.

Drinking during pregnancy!

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