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Dublin City brings in €500 firefighter call-out fee will only encourage DIY firemen..

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 340 ✭✭ivabiggon


    scholar007 wrote: »
    Why not? - I'll do all the fire service phecc equivalent courses. If firemen can operate ambulances in Dublin, what's to stop a lad setting up a fire service once all the paperwork is in order?

    the law.... fire services act, look it up, unless your going to be a local authority also!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    scholar007 wrote: »
    Why not? - I'll do all the fire service phecc equivalent courses. If firemen can operate ambulances in Dublin, what's to stop a lad setting up a fire service once all the paperwork is in order?


    I don't think you've bothered reading the previous posts on this.


    The HSE are the statuatory body for ambulance services. Dublin Fire Brigade operate an ambulance service under contract from the HSE.


    The local authority is the statuatory body for the provision of fire services. Dublin City Council provide this service within its own area and under contract for the areas covered by South Dublin Co Co, Fingal Co Co and Dun Laoire. This is specifically allowed for under the Fire Services Act.

    Are you a local authority? Have Dublin city council contracted you?

    No i didnt think so.

    To be fair you are making errroneus statements about something you don't have a clue about


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    ivabiggon wrote: »
    the law.... fire services act, look it up, unless your going to be a local authority also!

    I knew there was something I forgot - Damn the pesky law - why does it always stifle the entrepreneurial spirit?
    • Big red truck - Check
    • Big hose - Check
    • Axe - Check
    • Water - Check
    • Ladder - Check
    • Big hydraulic can opener thingy - Check
    • Breathing Apparatus - Check
    • Helmet, protective gear, boots - Check
    • Jacks / airbags - Check
    • Piece of paper - No
    FiremanSam.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Lets say my neighbour ' disses ' me and to get back I make a hoax 999 call reporting his house on fire - will he still get billed ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Delancey wrote: »
    Lets say my neighbour ' disses ' me and to get back I make a hoax 999 call reporting his house on fire - will he still get billed ?

    You will


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    MagicSean wrote: »
    You will

    Assuming it can be proved I made the call I would expect a lot more than a 500 quid bill - but where the hoaxer cannot be traced ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,174 ✭✭✭✭Captain Chaos


    Pick up a free sim, stick it in a phone and make a hoax call from down the road. Can't be tracked or traced full stop.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    Pick up a free sim, stick it in a phone and make a hoax call from down the road. Can't be tracked or traced full stop.

    Yes it can. Phone number can be traced to a store and cctv can show who bought it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,888 ✭✭✭Terrontress


    MagicSean wrote: »
    Pick up a free sim, stick it in a phone and make a hoax call from down the road. Can't be tracked or traced full stop.

    Yes it can. Phone number can be traced to a store and cctv can show who bought it.

    It's a hypothetical question! He is not going to do this!

    To make it simpler for you, he uses a public telephone box.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 340 ✭✭ivabiggon


    Pick up a free sim, stick it in a phone and make a hoax call from down the road. Can't be tracked or traced full stop.

    sad thing is one doesn't need a sim card for a 112 or a 999 call! or even if you dial 911 in this country you'll be put through and received with open arms on the other end of the emergency line


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Pick up a free Sim, stick it in a phone and make a hoax call from down the road. Can't be tracked or traced full stop.
    Mobile phone forensics is a wonderful thing, all 999/112 calls are recorded. The authorities can use voice recognition software and tag the caller if they suspect a serial hoaxer. Cell site analysis can also be used to pinpoint locations by triangulation where that phone was used at the time of the call. CCTV can also be checked in the locality. The IMEI No can also be used to trace the phones history, ie what sims were previously used in the phone, where it was bought, previous owners etc. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    Mobile phone forensics is a wonderful thing, all 999/112 calls are recorded. The authorities can use voice recognition software and tag the caller if they suspect a serial hoaxer. Cell site analysis can also be used to pinpoint locations by triangulation where that phone was used at the time of the call. CCTV can also be checked in the locality. The IMEI No can also be used to trace the phones history, ie what sims were previously used in the phone, where it was bought, previous owners etc. :)

    I seriously doubt that such efforts have ever been expended on a 999 hoaxer in this country.
    Yes , the technology to catch them exists but has it ever been used ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    Delancey wrote: »
    I seriously doubt that such efforts have ever been expended on a 999 hoaxer in this country.
    Yes , the technology to catch them exists but has it ever been used ?
    I'm sure if a hoaxer is persistent / stupid enough it would be followed up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    Delancey wrote: »
    I seriously doubt that such efforts have ever been expended on a 999 hoaxer in this country.
    Yes , the technology to catch them exists but has it ever been used ?

    Mobile phone forensics is a wonderful thing, all 999/112 calls are recorded. The authorities can use voice recognition software and tag the caller if they suspect a serial hoaxer. Cell site analysis can also be used to pinpoint locations by triangulation where that phone was used at the time of the call. CCTV can also be checked in the locality. The IMEI No can also be used to trace the phones history, ie what sims were previously used in the phone, where it was bought, previous owners etc

    Some say that the technology exists to identify the individual by satelite as they are on the phone perpetrating the hoax call. Before they are finished they will be surrounded by men who perform black ops who are dressed all in black driving black jeeps with blacked out windows (enough black). They will then be whisked off to an underground bunker where they will have a fire hose shoved up their ass and turned on full blast. After several days they will be found on the side of a bog road mumbling and incoherent.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 340 ✭✭ivabiggon


    you seem to be well up on this area, maybe you should set one up as oppose to your fire service and your little school girl fascination for firemen and their equipment!!! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    ivabiggon wrote: »
    you seem to be well up on this area, maybe you should set one up as oppose to your fire service and your little school girl fascination for firemen and their equipment!!! :D


    Surely you can think of (a process which kind of involves a few brain cells working together) something more insulting to write than "your little school girl fascination for firemen and their equipment" ? :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭time lord




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/motorists-face-bill-for-thousands-if-they-call-fire-brigade-2967302.html

    In short mans car catch fire on Motorway , two engines arrive, man gets charged 3125 euro by council.

    I am tipping the car was not worth that much?


    I wonder would this work.

    999 "999 Police fire ambulance"

    Victim "Car Fire on M50 south bound by the Navan road turn off, but I am just letting you know I don't require attendance I am fine and no one is trapped or hurt."

    999 "We will have to send a unit as its on the Motorway"

    Victim "Ok but that's your call I dont want the fire brigrade...is this recording ?"

    999 "Yes of course"

    Victim " Just so we are clear I was just calling for a chat like..I am not requesting anyone"


  • Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭CB19Kevo


    This will really damage the publics view of the Fire service.
    All calls outside of commercial incidents should be free to the public.
    Emergency services should never be money earners or charge.......


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    To be honest I dont see why the Fire Brigade is required for a car fire.

    If the fire has taken hold so much (that the car is a right off) and there is no chance of the fire spreading to buildings other cars or trees... Whats the point in paying the fire brigade to put it out.

    Just let it burn itself out.

    The fire brigade arent going to magically save it for you, all they will do is fill it with water, break open your bonnet and disconnect your battery.

    Ring your insurance company who will tow the shell, or decide its the councils problem to get rid of it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    Turner wrote: »
    If the fire has taken hold so much (that the car is a right off) and there is no chance of the fire spreading to buildings other cars or trees...

    I guess they don't know until they get there whether there's a fire contagion risk or not.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Paulzx


    Turner wrote: »
    To be honest I dont see why the Fire Brigade is required for a car fire.

    If the fire has taken hold so much (that the car is a right off) and there is no chance of the fire spreading to buildings other cars or trees... Whats the point in paying the fire brigade to put it out.

    Just let it burn itself out.

    The fire brigade arent going to magically save it for you, all they will do is fill it with water, break open your bonnet and disconnect your battery.

    Ring your insurance company who will tow the shell, or decide its the councils problem to get rid of it.

    It's nothing got to do with saving the car. If a car is on fire in a housing estate and its pumping out filthy black smoke all over the houses people are going to want it extingushed as soon as possible.

    If its parked at the side of the road and its ablaze no traffic will be able to pass unless they want their paintwork melted. The smoke is also a visabilty hazard to other drivers.

    Nobody in their right mind is going to let a car burn out for a few hours in a bulit up area even if it is not an actual fire risk to any building.

    It's a fire. It's the fire brigades job to extingush it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    CB19Kevo wrote: »
    This will really damage the publics view of the Fire service.
    All calls outside of commercial incidents should be free to the public.
    Emergency services should never be money earners or charge.......

    If some moron starts a fire in his back garden to burn rubbish and it spreads should he not have to pay?
    Turner wrote: »
    To be honest I dont see why the Fire Brigade is required for a car fire.

    If the fire has taken hold so much (that the car is a right off) and there is no chance of the fire spreading to buildings other cars or trees... Whats the point in paying the fire brigade to put it out.

    Just let it burn itself out.

    The fire brigade arent going to magically save it for you, all they will do is fill it with water, break open your bonnet and disconnect your battery.

    Ring your insurance company who will tow the shell, or decide its the councils problem to get rid of it.

    There are so many other risks in a car fire than just spreading. Paulzx has mentioned a few. What about keeping the public away or salvaging evidence?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    From a family members experience,I can make this comment. An aunty of mine lives in kilkenny, 2 years ago her daughter left a lit candle in the window. Long story short fire brigade called out to fight a fire in the bedroom.

    Some weeks later she got a bil for €750 . As she was on disability the council waived most of it as she was on welfare but she was forced to pay a portion as the cause of the fire was deemed as "negligence".

    I would assume it will be a similar arrangement , if you are on welfare or below a certain income the fee will be reduced or waived.

    In the event the fire is caused by arson or criminal action then if someone is convicted of thr offence then they are billed.

    Thats pretty much how it works in Carlow and Kilkenny,


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭Dermot Illogical


    I am also annoyed that people expect something for free when others have to pay for it.

    Not half as annoying as people being expected to pay for the same thing multiple times. There should be no charge anywhere for the proper use of any emergency services.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    I am also annoyed that people expect something for free when others have to pay for it.

    Why? Each county and city can chose to provide whatever services it wants to its citizens. They can choose to charge for them or make them free. Dublin City council choose not to charge for fire services to anyone in the four Dublin counties. If your local authority, run by people you elected wants to charge, that's up to them. You can a) vote out those councillors and vote for people who agree with you or b) move somewhere else. That's how democracy works.


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭savagecabbages


    markpb wrote: »
    Why? Each county and city can chose to provide whatever services it wants to its citizens. They can choose to charge for them or make them free. Dublin City council choose not to charge for fire services to anyone in the four Dublin counties. If your local authority, run by people you elected wants to charge, that's up to them. You can a) vote out those councillors and vote for people who agree with you or b) move somewhere else. That's how democracy works.

    So we can expect loads of people to either leave Dublin or bring down the councilors?

    Don't know if people understand the point i was making or not, I'm annoyed that people don't give a crap that fire services charge elsewhere in the same country, but as soon as a similar practice is suggested in their area they are up in arms over it...


    Btw I don't think any emergency services should charge anywhere in the country for genuine calls.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,218 ✭✭✭markpb


    Don't know if people understand the point i was making or not, I'm annoyed that people don't give a crap that fire services charge elsewhere in the same country, but as soon as a similar practice is suggested in their area they are up in arms over it...

    It doesn't really matter what happens in the rest of the country, fire services are provided by your local authority, not the government.
    Btw I don't think any emergency services should charge anywhere in the country for genuine calls.

    I agree totally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭dfbemt


    Covered on the Joe Duffy Show yesterday afternoon.

    Decent enough show for Liveline. Some very good points made.

    http://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradioweb.html#!rii=9%3A3166793%3A53%3A13%2D01%2D2012%3A


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    markpb wrote: »
    It doesn't really matter what happens in the rest of the country, fire services are provided by your local authority, not the government.


    Regardless of the thread topic , Government is ultimately responsible for and intimately connected with the funding for the local authority.


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