N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

Wild Bill · 23-09-2010 7:47pm

Furet wrote: »

I wonder who wrote that...

Eh...Furet??

murphaph · 24-09-2010 8:15am

Great letter Furet.

Your non-parochial viewpoint is sadly lacking in Ireland though (not just Tipp) and most people will still likely take a short term "solution" (remember Enfield) over waiting for a proper scheme.

You are to be congratulated for attempting to educate the masses though

Amtmann · 24-09-2010 11:18am

Cheers. Tipp Mid West Radio wanted an interview with me on foot of the letter. Just did it there. Spoke about the PPP programme, what's likely to go ahead, the recent opening of the M9, and the Atlantic Corridor. Also dealt with the issue of how, when you spend money on roads, you get a piece of infrastructure that will still be of use sixty years + from now. Didn't get a chance to mention the forum though!

Wild Bill · 24-09-2010 11:18pm

murphaph wrote: »

most people will still likely take a short term "solution" (remember Enfield) over waiting for a proper scheme.

And what problem did Enfield (or the Kinnegad bypass) cause? They merely helped the connections to the M4.

L1011 · 24-09-2010 11:58pm

The Enfield BP doesn't connect to the M4 any better than the existing road through it would have.

It was also slower than going through the town off-peak from day one and slower on peak once half the traffic was using it!

Wild Bill · 25-09-2010 12:27am

MYOB wrote: »

The Enfield BP doesn't connect to the M4 any better than the existing road through it would have.

It was also slower than going through the town off-peak from day one and slower on peak once half the traffic was using it!

Peak is what counts. Everywhere is clear at 4am. Like any bypass when it splits the traffic it makes the old route easier. Just like the old N4 is now, compared to before the M4 opened. :cool:

Amtmann · 30-09-2010 7:17pm

Someone was killed between Tipp and Pallasgreen today: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0930/rta.html

Edit: RTE just changed the story; no one killed on the N24 thank goodness, but someone was seriously injured there. The EIS for Cahir to Pallasgreen is expected to be published in Q4 2011 according to the NRA.

Bards · 30-09-2010 11:25pm

Furet wrote: »

Someone was killed between Tipp and Pallasgreen today: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0930/rta.html

Edit: RTE just changed the story; no one killed on the N24 thank goodness, but someone was seriously injured there. The EIS for Cahir to Pallasgreen is expected to be published in Q4 2011 according to the NRA.

RTÉ have updated their story yet again - same link as Furet's

Man dies in Tipperary crash
Thursday, 30 September 2010 22:05
A 25-year-old man has died in a crash in Co Tipperary.

He died after the van he was travelling in hit a ditch near Traverston, Dolla.

The body was taken to Limerick Regional Hospital where a post mortem examination will take place tomorrow.

The driver of the van was injured and taken to Nenagh General Hospital.

The road was closed for a technical examination.

Anyone with information is asked to contact Nenagh Garda Station on 067-50450, or the Garda Confidential Line 1800-666111.

limklad · 01-10-2010 6:01pm

nordydan wrote: »

IMO the N24 should multiplex with the M8 and run due east from Tipperary town, this would improve links from Tipp town (& Galbally , Ballylanders etc) with Dublin, North Tipp. Something like this:

Personally I would have chosen this route as Cashel is a bigger town than Cahir and it replaces two roads N74 and N24 in one go reducing the current roads to local status, Future road maintenance savings.
The Cahir to Clonmel road is not as bad as the Tipperary Town to Cahir road. The Cahir to Clonmel road can handle local traffic. Since it be far easier for people from the South East (Clonmel) and South West (Tipperary Town) of Tipperary and to get to Thurles for match days and to gain access to the M8 for Croke Park.

spacetweek · 05-10-2010 3:05pm

Since Pallasgreen-Cahir seems to have some life in it, and Ballybrophy (Limerick) to Pallasgreen is listed as "Preliminary Design" in the NRA's annual progress tracker, it looks like we'll have Limerick-M8 dualled by decade's end.

The rest is suspended, however, so all bets are off for that. Maybe it's a bit less important, there are no traffic counts for it available.

As for the need for dual rather than SC, can I just say that those lads on their Applefarm website are way off with the traffic forecast! Why do they think that the traffic level will plateau at 2020 and not increase at all after that? And why are they citing the 1998 traffic forecasts from the 1998 Road Needs Study? Have they never heard of an economic boom? I've read their whole site and the entire thing is claptrap from start to finish! Did you guys read their comments page? Hilarious!

The correct N24 traffic figure is 10,000 AADT, which indicates a 2+2 according to the NRA's guidelines. But then I'm preaching to the crowd here cause you guys already know this.

Amtmann · 05-10-2010 5:51pm

That would be Ballysimon to Pallasgreen. I think we could see Pallasgreen to Cahir done within six or seven years.

Of the other N24 schemes, Ballysimon to Pallasgreen needs doing, but it is a relatively straight (if narrow) section of road and is not comparable, danger-wise, to the sections of the N24 between Pallasgreen and Cahir. That said, multiple roadside memorials can be seen along it.

Cahir-Rathkeevin:

This is the one that has Con Traas, the owner of the Apple Farm, so upset. I have never met Con, but from what I've seen of him, I like him. I really think he's just misguided on this one. His site hasn't been updated in a while, but I'm sure the issue will rear its head again. His position is certainly untenable, as the section of the current N24 that the Cahir-Rathkeevin scheme would replace is actually a serious accident blackspot, where several fatalities have occurred, at least one in the past two years. I believe Con has advocated an online upgrade if possible. The problem is that it's not possible: the alignment is too sinuous and bumpy, and the area is littered with private accesses. I note from the proposed route corridor (see image below) that the new road could well cut through the Apple Farm, which would be a pity. Ultimately, however, that's just his tough luck.

By the way, 3km of this scheme are already built and open: it's the 2+1 Cahir Bypass section of the N24 that opened with the M8 in 2007. The NRA will convert this to 2+2 in time, according to the N24 Prioritisation Study.

N24 Cahir-Rathkeevin

***

The Clonmel Bypass, which would run from Rathkeevin to Kilheffernan (i.e., to the current N76 turn-off on the current N24) was at a very unadvanced stage of planning when it was suspended.

***

The Carrick-on-Suir Bypass would run from Kilheffernan to the Piltown 2+1 section. According to a report in the Clonmel Nationalist a few weeks ago, this project is not dead and a public consultation document will shortly issue to the public.

***

The priority must be (and is) Pallasgreen to Cahir.

Amtmann · 07-10-2010 5:20pm

Just saw this update on [url]www.southtippcoco.ie:[/url]

N24 Pallasgreen to Cahir

The Route Selection Reports for the N24 Pallasgreen to Bansha and the N24 Bansha to Cahir Road Improvement Schemes were approved in 2003 and the Part 8 Planning Process for a wide single carriageway for the Pallasgreen to Bansha Section was completed in December 2004.

The above Scheme now incorporates the previous Pallasgreen to Bansha, and Cahir to Bansha schemes into a single project. As part of a strategic review of the N24 corridor, following an NRA decision to ensure the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard, a potential new route option has been identified for the Cahir to Bansha section of the route. This new route option amends the previous published preferred route at the eastern end of the scheme on approach to the new M8 Cloghabreedy motorway junctioin and provides full connectiviity to this junction. This section of the scheme also crosses the River Suir, a designated European conservation site. Further studies are being undertaken on the proposed river crossing location to ensure any potential impacts on the conservation site are minimised. Once this study is completed a Route Comparison Report for the Cahir to Bansha section shall be published to document the findings of the review. It is anticipated that this report will be published before the end of 2010, following which public consultations shall be held.

Consultants Roughan O'Donovan were appointed in August 2010 to undertake an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the scheme. The EIS process shall assess the potential environmental impacts of the scheme and shall encompass field surveys, desktop studies and research, consultations with statutory and other bodies, consultations with landowners and drafting of reports. The EIS shall be undertaken in accordance with European and Irish legislation and it is expected to be completed in late 2011. The preliminary design of the scheme will be further developed in tandem with the EIS and shall be used to determine land take requirements for the prepartion of a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) for the Scheme.

The progress of the scheme design and EIS shall require consultations with affected landowners at various stages and access to lands to undertake non-intrusive field surveys. All such contracts shall be managed centrally by South Tipperary County Council. It is anticipated that the EIS and CPO for the scheme will be prepared before the end of 2011. Upon approval by the NRA to publish the EIS and CPO, an Oral Hearing would be convened by An Bord Pleanala.

Further progress of the scheme is dependent on confirmation of the CPO and approval of the Road Scheme by An Bord Pleanala and on funding for the construction phase.

I'm going to try my best to get my hands on some of the documentation for this scheme and to put it online.

Amtmann · 08-10-2010 10:06am

A public consultation on both the Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel Bypasses will take place in Band Hall, Clonmel, on 21 October between 2 and 8pm.

N24 Carrick on Suir By-Pass

The Route Selection report for the above Scheme was approved in 2003 and the Part 8 Planning Process for a wide single carriageway was completed in December 2004.

A review of the preferred route for the Scheme was initiated in 2008. This review arose from an NRA decision to ensure that the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard. Furthermore there was a need to consider the significant changes experienced within the study area since a preferred route was published in 2001. These changes, as occurred during unprecendented levels of economic growth, include increased levels of development and traffic volumes. The review found that the expansion of Carrick on Suir Town up to and beyond the previously preferred route corridor had created additional adverse impacts, particularly in terms of noise, air quality, severance and cost. New route options were therefore identified and developed to confirm the optional corridor for the Scheme.

A new Route Selection Report has been prepared in accordance with NRA Project Appraisal Guidelines 2008 which recommends a new preferred route corridor. The route connects with the preferred route corridor of the proposed Clonmel By-pass to form a continuous future N24 corridor. It replicates the previous route along substantial sections of the western half of the Scheme before bypassing Carrick on Suir on a wider arc to the north of the town, avoiding the extent of the town boundary, and extending into County Kilkenny.

Due to the identification of this new preferred route corridor, it is proposed to undertake a new public consultation process in order to inform the public and consult with affected landowners. Public consultations are scheduled for mid October .

Following confirmation and approval of the selected route it shall be referred to the planning departments of South Tipperary and Kilkenny County Council's for incorporation into the relevant development plans. The objective at present is to close out the Route Corridor Selection Phase of the project and establish the Route Corridor for the Scheme. The next phase in the scheme programme is publication of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and a Compulsory Purchase Order.

N24 Clonmel Outer Bypass

The emerging Preferred Route was submitted for public consultation in 2006.

Following the public consultation excercise, which attracted a significant number of submissions, a review of the section of route crossing the townslands of Orchardstown, Ballyvaheen, Caherclogh and Kilmore were initiated. This was in order to further examine a substantial number of concerns raised about the chosen route in this area and to further assess specific alternative routes presented for the area. The review also arose from an NRA decision to ensure that the route can be constructed to dual carriageway standard.

The review has now been concluded and Route Comparison Report has been prepared to record its findings. The report concludes that a hybrid route, combining aspects of the original preferred route and one of the identified alternative routes offers the best solution and recommends that it be adopted as the preferred route for the scheme in this area. The original preferred route remains unchanged outside this localised area.

Due to the identification of a paritally amneded preferred route, it is proposed to consult directly with the affected landowners and undertake a new public consultation process. Public consultations are scheduled for mid October. Following confirmation and approval of the selected route it shall be referred to the planning department of South Tipperary County Council for incorporation into the relevant development plans. The objective at present is to close out the Route Corridor Selection Phase of the project and establish the route corridor for the Scheme in 2010.

The next phase in the scheme programme is the publication of an Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) and a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO).

I'm going to go to this. I'll have the relevant documentation for those two schemes by the end of the month and will post it here if it hasn't been put up online by the County Council.

I'm surprised actually, because I understood that both these schemes were suspended.

Amtmann · 08-10-2010 11:26am

Just to make people aware that a public consultation meeting will be held in Band Hall, Clonmel, on Thursday 21 October between 2 and 8pm on the proposed routings of the Carrick-on-Suir Bypass and Clonmel Outer Bypass.

Amtmann · 08-10-2010 7:46pm

This is the latest plan for the Pallasgreen to Cahir scheme, complete with junction locations. This is the first time this image has been placed in the public domain.

Jayuu · 08-10-2010 9:31pm

Are these going to be grade-separated junctions?

Amtmann · 08-10-2010 9:48pm

Jayuu wrote: »

Are these going to be grade-separated junctions?

I'd say the primary access point for Tipp Town on the N74/N24 interchange might be grade-separated. The junction with the M8 will be a massive roundabout one level above the M8 mainline (the roundabout on the right of this image).
Other junctions will almost certainly be mostly roundabouts or LILOS. I am informed that the design is still uncertain. For instance the route corridor from the Bansha junction to the M8 is subject to change. If the designers do alter it, then they will have to consult with the public. The EIS is due to be completed in late 2011.

The looping section, where the N24 swings southward to parallel the M8 for 3km, is very close to my house. I won't be living here when the route goes to construction within the next six or seven years though.

charlemont · 08-10-2010 9:59pm

Furet wrote: »

Someone was killed between Tipp and Pallasgreen today: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0930/rta.html

Edit: RTE just changed the story; no one killed on the N24 thank goodness, but someone was seriously injured there. The EIS for Cahir to Pallasgreen is expected to be published in Q4 2011 according to the NRA.

my son's teacher was in that accident, he will be out for some time too, so i hope he makes a speedy recovery..

they will have fun trying to build the road by lower monard and solohead as the existing limerick rail line wont be easy to pass (best option to cross limerick line by oola), where the road crosses the dublin line, it will have to cross the new road that has recently being build opposite the quarry as the level crossings have been closed, all that area is boggy too.

delighted a junction will be built at soloheadbeg, make things easy for me, i can drive to J10 and avoid the R662..

ill take a guess at LILO junctions ..

we will be waiting a long time before any of this is done.

the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..

Sponge Bob · 08-10-2010 10:09pm

charlemont wrote: »

the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..

They should do it on a monday or friday seeing as Mansergh is most often in his constituency on those days. Tipp town and the run from there to Cahir is the absolute pits.

Amtmann · 08-10-2010 10:21pm

Will you be at the public consultation in Clonmel on the 21st charlemont? I might see you at it.

The Carrick-on-Suir and Clonmel bypasses might still be "suspended" actually. If the route selection study was in progress when the 94 suspensions were announced a year ago (revised programme for government etc.), the NRA's policy would have been to complete the route selection studies and then mothball the projects. I'll be asking those questions on the 21st.

charlemont · 08-10-2010 11:01pm

i wont be attending it , i think its all a public relations act but the sooner a definite route is chosen the better.

if they ever have consultations on the cahir/bansha/pallasgreen road, id be there. tipp town will never grow or thrive until that road is built..

Amtmann · 09-10-2010 3:30pm

charlemont wrote: »

the people in tipp town should designate a day every month where they block up the town and create traffic chaos for an hour or two as martin mansergh has more interest in horses than cars..

He's good for a laugh at least.

veryangryman · 09-10-2010 4:31pm

Furet wrote: »

He's good for a laugh at least.

Who voted this guy in? Reveal yourselves please. I won't hurt you, i promise (may not be true)

Amtmann · 10-10-2010 2:54pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Who voted this guy in? Reveal yourselves please. I won't hurt you, i promise (may not be true)

Here, I'll throw you a bone: http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-04101009m21stodaywithpatkenny.mp3

TimmyTarmac · 15-10-2010 4:11pm

Quick question..... mention was made in Furet's post of the Pallasgreen - Cahir dual carriageway being a PPP scheme. Would that mean that stretch of the N24 would be tolled if and when it's opened?

Amtmann · 15-10-2010 7:36pm

TimmyTarmac wrote: »

Quick question..... mention was made in Furet's post of the Pallasgreen - Cahir dual carriageway being a PPP scheme. Would that mean that stretch of the N24 would be tolled if and when it's opened?

No; it would be a shadow toll, as all new PPPs will be. Please note that I merely made the suggestion that it could be put forward as a PPP in tandem with another road scheme elsewhere in the country (like Newlands Cross is being parcelled with the M11 between Arklow and Rathnew as a single PPP scheme). In reality there is very little prospect of the N24 being made part of a PPP scheme, which unfortunately means that it might not get built until 2015 or 2016.

DaveJac · 15-10-2010 8:52pm

there at something on one of the bends between bansha and the silver sands, Not sure how to describe it worst bend on the road imo on a cross roads, doing alot of work in the field just inside the bend maybe making it straighter? and the bend in the section near the apple farm in the 65kph zone, a Track Machine and a few concrete bollards in the section of grass that bend should have been taken out of it years ago they have the lads ages, really hope they are going to do the 2 bends

Amtmann · 15-10-2010 9:11pm

DaveJac wrote: »

there at something on one of the bends between bansha and the silver sands, Not sure how to describe it worst bend on the road imo on a cross roads, doing alot of work in the field just inside the bend maybe making it straighter? and the bend in the section near the apple farm in the 65kph zone, a Track Machine and a few concrete bollards in the section of grass that bend should have been taken out of it years ago they have the lads ages, really hope they are going to do the 2 bends

They're taking those bends out of it and straightening the alignment for 600m at both locations. They are also widening the section from Limerick Junction to Tipp town, though the geometry of the road will still make it unsafe for the traffic using it.

DaveJac · 15-10-2010 9:22pm

taught they were putting a footpath from tipp town to limerick junction? that was the plan for years anyway... its good they are straightening the other bends but why it wasnt done when the road was closed is beyoned me

Amtmann · 15-10-2010 9:27pm

DaveJac wrote: »

taught they were putting a footpath from tipp town to limerick junction? that was the plan for years anyway... its good they are straightening the other bends but why it wasnt done when the road was closed is beyoned me

They certainly need a footpath there alright. However, the surfacing put down thusfar is identical to the surface on the rest of the road. We'll have to wait and see.

N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

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