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S & S and class periods

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  • 13-12-2013 1:21pm
    #1
    trihead
    Registered Users Posts: 442 ✭✭


    hi all,

    Just trying to get a picture what is happening in other schools in relation to s & s if you class period is not the 'standard ' 40 mins. What is happening in schools if you class periods are 1 hr long or even 30 mins long - are you still being asked to block off 5 periods as per the circular letter?

    I thought initially it was up to 3hrs in total but I have been told - no its 5 class periods (regardless of the length of the period) up to 3 hrs max per week.

    thanks for any info

    Trihead:)


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    #2
    fall
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭fall


    Hour long here so three class periods allocated and adhered to. Refuse to do anything else. You only have six blocks free as it is when you have hour long classes.


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    #3
    Outsidethebox
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭Outsidethebox


    Can s&s be used for special centres for 2nd/5th year christmas exams?


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    #4
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    Outsidethebox wrote: »
    Can s&s be used for special centres for 2nd/5th year christmas exams?

    I wouldn't have thought so.
    Are ye doing block supervision? Surely there are enough teachers to cover all centres?


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    #5
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    happywithlife wrote: »
    I wouldn't have thought so.
    Are ye doing block supervision? Surely there are enough teachers to cover all centres?

    Maybe Outsidethebox is referring to when a teacher is out but down for supervising xmas exams? Although it seems that in some schools you are just told where to go .....and you go.

    In terms of transparency (and fairness!!!!)... is the rota ever publicly displayed in anyone's staffroom?


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    #6
    Moody_mona
    Registered Users Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭Moody_mona


    Yes Armelodie, in ours, full weeks rota goes up and stays up. Number of hours are totted and displayed in the final column. For the most part it's done pro-rata.


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    #7
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    Moody_mona wrote: »
    Yes Armelodie, in ours, full weeks rota goes up and stays up. Number of hours are totted and displayed in the final column. For the most part it's done pro-rata.

    Wow, id say your in a minority there... Ours is a mystery (although I'm not signed up to it in the first place!)....you get a phone call and told where to go...

    Maybe it might be one for the unions to persue.. rota to be posted in a public place etc.


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    #8
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Wow, id say your in a minority there... Ours is a mystery (although I'm not signed up to it in the first place!)....you get a phone call and told where to go...

    Maybe it might be one for the unions to persue.. rota to be posted in a public place etc.

    are you confusing exam supervision with general. s&s? Surely the s&s rota is done annually


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    #9
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    teacherhead wrote: »
    are you confusing exam supervision with general. s&s? Surely the s&s rota is done annually



    Aye, suppose my point was that there is a big difference in some schools between who is down to supervise and who usually ends up being called to do it, the rota may well be done beforehand, but there's many a slip between the cup and the lip. If two teachers are down for S&S at the same time but it's the same person being called on to do it on a regular basis, a bit of transparency could go a long way.


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    #10
    happywithlife
    Registered Users Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭happywithlife


    Armelodie wrote: »
    Maybe Outsidethebox is referring to when a teacher is out but down for supervising xmas exams? Although it seems that in some schools you are just told where to go .....and you go.

    In terms of transparency (and fairness!!!!)... is the rota ever publicly displayed in anyone's staffroom?

    Any school I've been in generally has the supervision rota for Xmas exams up on the notice board in the staff room and everybody can see what everybody else is (or isn't 😉) doing


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    #11
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    Our DP hands out a sheet in the morning to teachers who will be called on for subbing that day. It clearly labels who's out and who's covering. I have advised all staff to keep a running tot of their hours and they can compare with the list we'll all get after Christmas from the DP with the hours' total on it.

    As for exam supervision, if you have 2nd years and they're doing an exam, you go and supervise them for that class. S/s only comes into it if you are covering for a teacher who is out and the absent teacher is supposed to be supervising an exam.


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    #12
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    implausible wrote: »
    Our DP hands out a sheet in the morning to teachers who will be called on for subbing that day. It clearly labels who's out and who's covering. I have advised all staff to keep a running tot of their hours and they can compare with the list we'll all get after Christmas from the DP with the hours' total on it.

    As for exam supervision, if you have 2nd years and they're doing an exam, you go and supervise them for that class. S/s only comes into it if you are covering for a teacher who is out and the absent teacher is supposed to be supervising an exam.

    Yea same here.


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    #13
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    Our rota is put up a week or so before the exams begin, everyone gets a day or more off (usually of their own choice), its done on a full time /part time basis so no one gets screwed.


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    #14
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    solerina wrote: »
    Our rota is put up a week or so before the exams begin, everyone gets a day or more off (usually of their own choice), its done on a full time /part time basis so no one gets screwed.

    Do ye run exams for all classes first year to sixth?


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    #15
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    teacherhead wrote: »
    Do ye run exams for all classes first year to sixth?


    Yeah, the entire school does exams for the last 4 days of term, lots of work setting and correcting papers but you get the day off to do it so its OK.


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    #16
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    Do ASTI teachers who have not done S&S to date now have to cover 43 hours in the remainder of this academic year?

    Considering that half the academic year is over . . .surely this should be reduced to 21.5 hours per teacher for the remainder of the academic year?


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    #17
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    ultimately it would depend on the circular and if pay will be backdated to July. Also, it rarely works out as evenly over the year and also the reality that many asti members in schools have been completing S&S up to now (under the guise that it would be paid). I would think that it would be contentious if people who had been doing it have to do 43 taking into account what they have already done and others only 21.5.


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    #18
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    TheDriver wrote: »
    ultimately it would depend on the circular and if pay will be backdated to July. Also, it rarely works out as evenly over the year and also the reality that many asti members in schools have been completing S&S up to now (under the guise that it would be paid). I would think that it would be contentious if people who had been doing it have to do 43 taking into account what they have already done and others only 21.5.

    Incremental pay will be backdated and anyone who has done S&S to date will have that time deducted from their 43 hours but will not get paid for it.

    There is a large minority of teachers who have not done S&S to date in this academic year . . .I would assume that they could be asked to cover the maximum of 3 hours per week for the rest of the academic year until they reach 43 hours.


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    #19
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    Do ASTI teachers who have not done S&S to date now have to cover 43 hours in the remainder of this academic year?

    Considering that half the academic year is over . . .surely this should be reduced to 21.5 hours per teacher for the remainder of the academic year?


    Id love to know the answer to this question too...in my school just under 50% of teachers have been involved in S&S so far this year...its something that needs clarification asap so that those who have been doing it since Sept are not made to do the full quota and those who stayed out 'get away' with it ( I can see this issue causing friction if clarification is not available asap)


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    #20
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    gut feeling is that if everything is backpaid to last July, then commitments will also be. However P and DP should ensure that there is a fair sharing of delivery i.e. not hearing that Tom does 43 and John does 2 to ensure the implementation doesn't cause friction because circular generally doesn't refer to equality but rather delivery.


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    #21
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    solerina wrote: »
    Id love to know the answer to this question too...in my school just under 50% of teachers have been involved in S&S so far this year...its something that needs clarification asap so that those who have been doing it since Sept are not made to do the full quota and those who stayed out 'get away' with it ( I can see this issue causing friction if clarification is not available asap)

    I suppose if it were to be reduced to 21.5 hours per teacher then those who have done S&S to date could argue that they no longer have to do it for the rest of this academic year [assuming they've reached 21.5 hours]

    I'd say that ASTI teachers who have not done S&S to date will be liable for the FULL 43 hours on the basis that when Haddington Road was passed it is assumed to have begun on 01 July. These teachers will also receive any increment due to them from 01 July.

    So yea. . .An ASTI teacher who has not done S&S to date could be instructed to do 3 hours per week S&S until the end of the academic year. . .Their union stayed quiet on that one.


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    #22
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    TheDriver wrote: »
    gut feeling is that if everything is backpaid to last July, then commitments will also be. However P and DP should ensure that there is a fair sharing of delivery i.e. not hearing that Tom does 43 and John does 2 to ensure the implementation doesn't cause friction because circular generally doesn't refer to equality but rather delivery.

    Is there any basis for teachers to ask management for figures of those doing S&S as time passes. . . or is this supposed to be done on trust?

    In my school the DPs put up a S&S roster for each day . . . There would be nothing wrong with asking them to put up a table (say once a month) showing how many hours each teacher has done?


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    #23
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    In my school the DP arrives to the particular teacher and gives tells them what class they are covering, its usually done the day before you are needed but if someone rings in sick then it could be an hour or so before the actual class. We have no way of knowing who does it regularly and who rarely if ever gets 'caught'....however I feel that its fairly divided if possible (obviously it depends on which periods you had originally signed up for).


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    #24
    solerina
    Registered Users Posts: 2,433 ✭✭✭solerina


    ..we have been told that if we are on S&S rota that we must be available in the staffroom for the entire class period in case we are needed....it rarely if ever happens but I suppose emergencies do happen.


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    #25
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    solerina wrote: »
    we have been told that if we are on S&S rota that we must be available in the staffroom for the entire class period in case we are needed....it rarely if ever happens but I suppose emergencies do happen.

    Well that's true. . . You have to nominate 5 periods and you are on call at a moments notice for all 5.


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    #26
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    mod warning : thread cleaned up...

    Please use report button rather than responding to inflamitory comments on thread.

    Also be aware that a lot of stuff is still up in the air until the dust settles over the next few weeks.

    Speculate away but keep it civil.


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    #27
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    .


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    #28
    smallgarden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,605 ✭✭✭smallgarden


    Anybody know what happens if you're a temporary teacher. Is it only permanent and rpt teachers contracted for the year who are contracted to do s&s


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    #29
    teacherhead
    Closed Accounts Posts: 666 ✭✭✭teacherhead


    smallgarden wrote: »
    Anybody know what happens if you're a temporary teacher. Is it only permanent and rpt teachers contracted for the year who are contracted to do s&s

    everyone's in pro rata unless you can avail of the buy out option.


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    #30
    fall
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭fall


    Not so in our place. Temporary teachers don't do s and s at all. If they are covering a long term sick leave they don't do any because technically the teacher could come back tomorrow. A contract has to be in place.


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    #31
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,392 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Peter Flynt wrote: »
    Is there any basis for teachers to ask management for figures of those doing S&S as time passes. . . or is this supposed to be done on trust?

    In my school the DPs put up a S&S roster for each day . . . There would be nothing wrong with asking them to put up a table (say once a month) showing how many hours each teacher has done?

    Anyone who wants to see their figures are more than welcome to check the books at any stage but I wouldn't put up a running tally on the staff room walls because it creates a bit of teachers spying on each other and other factors which may not be understood e.g. some teachers will ask not to do much s&s in oral times or practical exam times or musical times etc but happily do more elsewhere but its hard to reflect this on the cold spreadsheet.
    A daily roster should always be put up at the earliest convenience however there are last minute emergencies and you would be shocked at how many teachers who leave home at 7-8 normally and start school at 9 but can't ring sick until 8:59 but c'est la vie....


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