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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

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    #1892
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    gerrymartin wrote: »
    So you "know" that Onwave and RTE have NOT been cooperating in getting Saorsat up and running and indeed that Onwave have NOT been working closely with "Walker" to develop a Saorsat approved receiver with pvr functionality among other things?

    Have Onwave and Walker been working in collaboration with one another?

    I just thought it too much of a coincidence that Ciaran999 not only obtained one of the first commerical Ka-LNBFs from Onwave, but just happened to stumble across the Freesat EPG on a Walker box too.


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    #1893
    gerrymartin
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭gerrymartin


    Apogee wrote: »
    Have Onwave and Walker been working in collaboration with one another?

    I just thought it too much of a coincidence that Ciaran999 not only obtained one of the first commerical Ka-LNBFs from Onwave, but just happened to stumble across the Freesat EPG on a Walker box too.
    The waker box is indeed designed to handle both Freesat and Saorsat EPG together.


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    #1894
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    gerrymartin wrote: »
    The waker box is indeed designed to handle both Freesat and Saorsat EPG together.

    [Vincent Browne Mode]You didn't actually answer my question. Have Onwave and Walker been working in collaboration with one another as your post seems to imply?[/Vincent Browne Mode]


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    #1895
    gerrymartin
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭gerrymartin


    (Mrs.Brown's Boys Mode)
    Ah sure now unless me eyes and me ears were playing tricks on me it would appear so :)


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    #1896
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    gerrymartin wrote: »
    So you "know" that Onwave and RTE have NOT been cooperating in getting Saorsat up and running and indeed that Onwave have NOT been working closely with "Walker" to develop a Saorsat approved receiver with pvr functionality among other things?

    Onwave have zero set-box expertise. They are a VSAT reseller and Installer. Why on earth would Walker "work with them" or RTE NL "work with Onwave" (who have qualified engineers, not just guys with meters and drills that fit terminals)?

    I'm sceptical though of Ciarán999's "independence" from Onwave. It's a very unlikely tale. But of course real life is full of unlikely co-incidences (hence the term).

    RTE's Saorsat tests involve an uplink that isn't in Ireland, Eutelsat and non-broadband TVRO LNBF. Tooway is a separate carrier. Also it's likely RTE's tests are in NI, IOM, Wales and England as much as in Ireland.

    Onwave would have zero experience or expertise on surveying coverage or Engineering. They just resell Tooway and Technicians (not Engineers) install the Dish, ODU and Modem, they don't "develop" or test anything other than in the normal installer technician sense. No doubt they are interested in getting into the much larger TV install market (30,000 potential customers vs maybe another few hundred Satellite Internet, 2,000 if you are really an optimistic reseller, and Onwave competing on Tooway with other longer established very expert companies).

    There are too many conspiracy theories about.


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    #1897
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    RTE's Saorsat tests involve an uplink that isn't in Ireland, Eutelsat and non-broadband TVRO LNBF.

    Which non-broadband TVRO LNBF?


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    #1898
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    RTE's Saorsat tests involve an uplink that isn't in Ireland, Eutelsat and non-broadband TVRO LNBF.

    Could they be using the groundstation at Elfordstown, Co Cork?


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    #1899
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No they are not. The Elfordstown facilty is used to upload for other spots. Not at all for Irish spot. As the Irish Tooway data is fed/received from Spain, reasonable to assume RTE is feeding their data by fibre to Spain for uplink.


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    #1900
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    A quick test at weekend with a Freesat+ Panasonic DMR-BS850EBK. The non-Freesat mode in this box is very limited. When you attempt a scan, you are limited to symbol rates options of 27500, 22000 etc. However, setting SR to 'Automatic' and with a frequency of 11185 MHz, all channels scanned in OK.

    IMAG0142.jpg

    Channel info:

    IMAG0140.jpg

    Channels display OK (although audio defaults to NAR track) and can do manual record onto HDD.

    IMAG0139.jpg

    EPG data is limited to 'Now and Next' programme titles with no programme information. The 7-day EPG grid is blank. However, given how poor Panasonic are with complying with DVB standards, this is hardly surprising.


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    #1901
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Scanned in the live channels on a Linux box as well. I reckon the signal strength has been reduced somewhat since the earlier 'loop test'.

    IMAG0145.jpg

    Standard 7-day EPG displays as expected:

    IMAG0146.jpg

    I had previously tested a Vu+ box to see how well the Saorsat and Freesat EPGs integrated. During the earlier 'loop test' it wasn't possible to see them running side by side. No problems now with second LNBF on 28E connected via Diseqc switch.

    IMAG0147.jpg

    IMAG0148.jpg


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    #1902
    satwyn
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭satwyn


    how much do you reckon the signal has dropped by my lnb has been taken off the dish and can't test at the moment anyone else noticed a signal drop i needed a 1.2m dish for a lock here i also tried a 1m without success but it was only a quick test


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    #1903
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    They will use the minimum signal power for rain margin on the dish size recommend they pick as less power is cheaper and less overspill.

    Ice or moisture high up you can't see will change the signal a lot though too.


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    #1904
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    About ~20% signal drop I reckon. I could previously get a signal lock on an 80cm Lidl dish, including in rain. No signal lock at all at weekend, even when dry (although very overcast) - I'm not aware of the signal being blocked by trees etc.

    Obviously, a proper LNBF such as the Inverto with depolariser would perform significantly better than the Hughes LNB I'm using.

    The Saorsat signal peak has certainly been reduced relative to the two data transponder peaks on a spectrum analyzer - I'll see if I can post current and previous spectra for comparison in a few days.


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    #1905
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Noob question.

    Will there be a box released that will unite UK Freesat with a decent EPG and Soarsat with it's EPG?


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    #1906
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Noob question.

    Will there be a box released that will unite UK Freesat with a decent EPG and Soarsat with it's EPG?





    Any takers?


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    #1907
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Will there be a box released that will unite UK Freesat with a decent EPG and Soarsat with it's EPG?
    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Any takers?

    Simple answer - no one knows for sure.


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    #1908
    Gerry Wicklow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,534 ✭✭✭Gerry Wicklow


    Probably not. AFAIK current FreeSat boxes need to be switched into non-FreeSat mode to view other channels and there are differences in recording and EPG facilities. There is 3rd party software available for some boxes that merges FreeSat and non-FreeSat but that is always a gamble. FreeSat is intended purely for the UK market so would not and should not support SaorSat, which is intended purely for the Irish market. It would be a legal minefield. SaorSat wont be available in most of UK so the only market for such a box would be very limited.


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    #1909
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I agree it's unlikely, but not impossible.

    In any rate you need Freesat for ITV as TV3 are broke so unlikely to pay the small extra charge to carry TV3 & 3E on Saorsat. It's likely TV3 pays nothing to have TV3 and 3E carried on Sky, as Sky benefits. A Company (TV3) prepared to be in breach of Licence to save money and only be on 80% for Analogue is not going to pay for DTT backup or for coverage via Satellite for 5% more people. So when a DTT site's terrestrial feed fails the DTT will still have all the DTT channels via aerial except TV3 and 3E.

    RTE are likely to confirm details of Saorsat in next few weeks.

    The Irish & UK Governments claim they are going to co-ordinate on Digital Compatibility, so politically for N.I. market there may be DTT and Sat boxes that do both EPGs at same time.


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    #1910
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    watty wrote: »
    The Irish & UK Governments claim they are going to co-ordinate on Digital Compatibility, so politically for N.I. market there may be DTT and Sat boxes that do both EPGs at same time.

    Ah I can see it now...

    The McGiuness Robinson Combo box. :)

    That would be sweet.



    Thanks for the replies.


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    #1911
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    This from the latest RTÉNL-Saorview FAQ rev.6 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76732189#post76732189
    RTÉNL has been transmitting test signals on this new satellite service since December 2011. RTÉNL expects the channel line up to be confirmed, and the SAORSAT service to be formally live, in February or March of 2012. Suitable consumer equipment (Set-Top-Boxes and dishes) will be available in retailers by this time.

    Short piece on this in Broadband TV News today
    Saorsat to launch in February

    10.00 Europe/London, January 26, 2012 By Julian Clover

    Saorsat, the free-to-air satellite companion to Ireland’s DTT service Saorview, is slated to launch this February or March.

    Documents released by RTÉNL, the network’s division of the public broadcaster, said tests have been underway since December 2011. Saorsat will be carried on Eutelsat’s Ka-Sat at 9 degrees East.

    It is anticipated that suitable receivers will be available within the next few weeks.

    Around 1% and 2% of the Irish population will be unable to receive the terrestrial transmissions from Saorview. It also seems likely the transmissions will also be made available in Northern Ireland, while a joint UK and Irish Government project is currently examining the possibility of allowing the existing RTÉ and TG4 television services to be carried on part of the UK’s Freeview platform.

    http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2012/01/26/saorsat-to-launch-in-february/


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    #1912
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Ah I can see it now...

    The McGiuness Robinson Combo box. :)

    That would be sweet.



    Thanks for the replies.

    I didn't mean a Combo. I meant
    1) Saorview + Freeview HD, including dual tuner internal HDD PVR

    OR a box
    2) Saorsat + Freesat HD, including dual tuner internal HDD PVR

    3) A combo with both approvals of "Freesat HD" and "Saorview" is very much more unlikely.

    1 &2 are much simpler and applicable to many more products. For a start a Combo is more expensive hardware, especially a True PVR.

    A quad tuner DTT + Sat approved PVR is very very unlikely.


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    #1913
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    I rang Onwave today to try and source myself a KA-Band LNB and I was told they have them in stock and that they will be selling them online by the end of next week for €25 + VAT so presuming with postage costs they will cost somewhere in the region of €35 - €40 a go, I can't wait to get one and experiment with it. There will be Youtube vids guys!

    I am well aware that there is nothing official yet as Watty said but am willing to risk it for +/- €40. I bought a TV back in 2009 specc'd with Mpeg4 for Saorview and my gamble back then paid off even though I have no proper Saorview today! I have a 1 Metre motorised dish which has been sitting idle with the last 12months since a storm threw it off alignment. I plan to remove the motor and align it permanently to 9.0E on Ka-Sat.

    I also have a Sky dish with four feeds into the house and the plan is to get a Diseqc switch and combine the SaorSat and Freesat signals into my Technomate 6900HD receiver. After analog switch-off I will get two more sat boxes for the kitchen and living room where I already have cabling ran.

    I have a Satlook Micro satellite meter and can align to standard KU-Band satellites no probs so I wonder how difficult will aligning to KA-Sat be? With a 1 metre dish would it be easier or harder? Could I align to 9E on KU and then swapout the KU for the new KA LNB? I am a hobbyist here and


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    #1914
    zg3409
    Registered Users Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Could I align to 9E on KU and then swapout the KU for the new KA LNB?

    Yes that works and would probably be best for you. If your receiver is pre-programmed (after you set up the first one) I found there is so little on Ka it's really easy to align by hand. An ordinary meter will work with the KA LNB and only pick up a few sats.


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    #1915
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    A bigger dish is always harder to align than a smaller one, but it would also be easier to align the dish on Ku and switch to the Ka LNB.


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    #1916
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,478 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Stinicker wrote: »
    I rang Onwave today to try and source myself a KA-Band LNB and I was told they have them in stock and that they will be selling them online by the end of next week for €25 + VAT so presuming with postage costs they will cost somewhere in the region of €35 - €40 a go, I can't wait to get one and experiment with it. There will be Youtube vids guys!

    Thanks for the info Stinicker, Ciaran999 got two of them from Onwave earlier this month (must've know someone on the inside).
    Stinicker wrote: »
    I am well aware that there is nothing official yet as Watty said but am willing to risk it for +/- €40. I bought a TV back in 2009 specc'd with Mpeg4 for Saorview and my gamble back then paid off even though I have no proper Saorview today!

    Same here, got an MPEG-4 TV back in early 2008 (in anticipation that the standard was going to be MPEG-4) - working fine for Saorview almost 4 years later (except for MHEG-5 in the Ireland setting).


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    #1917
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,769 ✭✭✭Apogee


    Old spectrum grab with single data TP at 1374 MHz and the Saorsat TP beneath.
    9escan.jpg

    Current photo of same reference data TP at 1374 MHz, new data TP above. And a considerably reduced Saorsat TP beneath.

    new_spec.jpg


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    #1918
    dowtchaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,486 ✭✭✭dowtchaboy


    Chuck Stone wrote: »
    Ah I can see it now...

    The McGiuness Robinson Combo box. :)

    That would be sweet.



    Thanks for the replies.
    Maybe the Wee Free's Box might be a better name?:D


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    #1919
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Aligning a 1m on Ka is like 1.5m on Ku. It will need to be very stable and may be too much signal unless you offset the LNB.


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    #1920
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    watty wrote: »
    Aligning a 1m on Ka is like 1.5m on Ku. It will need to be very stable and may be too much signal unless you offset the LNB.

    Thanks for the info, I have never worked with anything bigger than 1m as I am only a hobbyist, but I have another 80cms dish I can use if I fail with the 1metre.

    I wonder would it be possible to use a zone 2 60cms Sky mini-dish with a KA LNB for Saorsat @ 9E or would the mesh in the Sky dish lead to signal degradation?


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    #1921
    Charlie-Bravo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭Charlie-Bravo


    In theory, is it possible to align a 60cm triax dish, hooked up with two LNBs to get both Saorsat and Freesat?

    -. . ...- . .-. / --. --- -. -. .- / --. .. ...- . / -.-- --- ..- / ..- .--.



This discussion has been closed.
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