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Ongoing religious scandals

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,000 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Recorded this a couple of weeks ago and watched it last night, it was very good, anyone else here see it?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05psdvz
    My Mother the Secret Baby
    Storyville,
    2014-2015

    In this funny and moving documentary, acclaimed film-maker Daisy Asquith tells the very personal story of her mother's conception after a dance in the 1940s on the remote west coast of Ireland.

    By exploring the repercussions of this act, Daisy and her mother embark on a fascinating and emotional adventure in social and sexual morality. Her grandmother, compelled to run away to have her baby in secret, handed the child over to 'the nuns'. Daisy's mum was eventually adopted by English Catholics from Stoke-on-Trent. Her grandmother returned to Ireland and told no-one. The father remained a mystery for another 60 years, until Daisy and her mum decided it was time to find out who he was.

    Their attempts to find the truth make raw the fear and shame that Catholicism has wrought on the Irish psyche for centuries. It leads Daisy and her mum to connect with a brand new family living an extraordinarily different life.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/church-state-and-marriage-1.2188131
    There was no statutory minimum, but common law held it to be 14 for boys and 12 for girls.

    Between 1961 and 1963, 129 marriages had involved 14- or 15-year-olds, and 25 babies had been born to 13- or 14-year-old girls. At least one of these marriages had been covered by Sunday newspapers in the UK – where the minimum age for marriage was a uniform 16 – in what MacEntee described as an "unsavoury or sensational" way. He believed that the coverage hurt Ireland’s reputation abroad. At the time Spain was the only other European country with such a low minimum age.

    Canon law did not set a minimum age, but a bishop had to approve any marriage where the groom was under 16 or the bride was under 14. Now the Catholic hierarchy, MacEntee told his cabinet colleagues, "have pressed strongly for the omission of any lower age limit to the granting of permission. They stated that, with the improvement in the standard of living, the tendency is for young people to mature at an earlier age, and that it would be undesirable to set any arbitrary level below which it would not be permissible to grant permission for a marriage."

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/priest-sexually-abused-girl-while-hearing-her-first-confession-1.2188013
    A 76-year-old retired priest who sexually abused a seven-year-old girl while hearing her first confession has been jailed for two years.

    John Calnan, who is no longer in ministry, was sentenced to three years in jail, with the final year suspended, after pleading guilty to sexually assaulting the girl in West Cork in 1989.

    ...

    When the little girl finished her confession, Calnan rearranged her clothing and gave her absolution and penance and told her that she could leave the kitchenette, said Sgt Downey.

    ...

    "When brought to the attention of the school, my family were met with denial and a feeling of guilt and shame was inflicted on them," she said.

    "There were thinly veiled warnings about speaking out and how they would be thought of within the local community."

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Cardinal Pell of Australia, who now minds the Vatican's finances, continues to be dogged by allegations that he protected Australia's child molesters:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/cardinal-george-pell-may-have-aided-cover-up-of-australias-worst-paedophile-royal-commission-hears/story-fni0fee2-1227360061642
    Herald Sun wrote:
    CARDINAL George Pell may have unwittingly helped protect Australia’s worst paedophile priest by moving him between parishes and covering up his evil crimes, it had been alleged. In explosive allegations before the royal commission into sexual abuse this morning it was alleged the high-ranking Cardinal sat on a committee that protected notorious paedophile Gerald Ridsdale.

    Ridsdale, who has spent decades behind bars, has admitted molesting at least 54 victims but it has been estimated he molested more than 200 children while being shuffled around parishes. Cardinal Pell has persistently denied knowing the extent of offending by notorious paedophile Gerald Ridsdale before he controversially accompanied him to a court hearing in 1993.

    But the commission heard this morning he sat on a committee in September 1982 that considered Ridsdale’s offending when deciding to move him on. Counsel assisting the commission Gail Furness, SC, said the then Fr Pell was one of seven people at the meeting, including Ballarat bishop Ronald Mulkearns.

    The minutes of the meeting noted Bishop Mulkearns as advising it had become necessary for Ridsdale to be moved from the Parish of Mortlake, with negotiations underway to move him to NSW. “The minutes do not disclose what the Bishop said about why it became necessary,” Ms Furness said. “However, as indicated earlier, it is expected that there will be evidence that Bishop Mulkearns knew it was because Ridsdale had abused boys in Mortlake, and that he had offended in this manner in 1975.”

    [...]

    Cardinal Pell, who now minds the Vatican finances, accompanied Ridsdale to court in 1993 sparking outrage from victims. “At that stage nobody knew, at least I certainly didn’t, the extent of what proved to be an infamous career,” he said later. “I knew there was a very significant number of offences, I didn’t know the details of those offences. I knew that Ridsdale was pleading guilty. His lawyer asked me to appear in court before him.”

    Cardinal Pell lived with Ridsdale in the early 1970s but claims he as not a close friend of his.

    [...]


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Why does lecturing on the benefits of keeping one's trousers up, so often result in trousers coming down:

    http://guff.com/glt-obnoxious-right-wing-moralists-who-were-caught-with-their-pants-down/20?ts_pid=2


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    So presumably Pell's new job comes with a nice gaff within the Vatican's walls.

    Safely out of reach of any extradition treaty.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,907 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    So presumably Pell's new job comes with a nice gaff within the Vatican's walls.

    Safely out of reach of any extradition treaty.
    Why bother with boring facts, when we can just presume into existence a reality that conforms to our preconceptions?

    When Pell is in Rome, he stays at the Marist guest house, which is not in the Vatican. It's in Via Cernaia, which is near the Termini station. Anyone can stay there - you'll find it on Tripadvisor. His own home is a flat in Sydney. He spends a good deal of time in Australia, anybody who wants to serve him with court papers - and there have been several - has had no trouble in doing so and, should he ever be charged with anything, it's unlikely that there will be much difficulty in arresting him. He has stated his willingness to attend and give evidence at the Royal Commission now sitting, and has said that he expects to be asked to do so.

    I don't like the guy, but I don't think that justifies inventing a reality in which he is a fugitive avoiding extradition. The reality is that he has not been accused of any offence, so far as has been reported in the papers, much less charged with one, and he is wholly amenable to the jurisdication of the Australian authorities.

    Presumably Hotblack lives in a secret lair in a hollowed-out volcano, stroking a fluffy white cat and plotting the destruction of our liberties? :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    You do accept they have form in that regard.

    So Pell isn't a fugitive from justice, he's unlikely to ever face trial though and he should, along with many others.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I don't like the guy, but I don't think that justifies inventing a reality in which he is a fugitive avoiding extradition. The reality is that he has not been accused of any offence, so far as has been reported in the papers, much less charged with one, and he is wholly amenable to the jurisdication of the Australian authorities.
    Legally, what you're saying is exactly true. However, as with all of Pell's comments, his choice of language is measured, precise, free of emotion and where possible, avoiding even the shadow of responsibility.

    Pell sounds, to me at least, less like the moral guardian of open truth, freedom and honesty, and far more as though he's hiding something, and doing so with the practiced skill of a razor-sharp legal mind.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Oh dear, oh dear. Another pastor, known for banging the anti-gay drum, has been found going places where no pastor should have gone before.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/05/20/antigay-pastor-resigns-after-outed--grindr/27642355/
    USA Today wrote:
    A Michigan pastor, who has publicly railed against gay marriage, has resigned from his post after being outed by the gay and lesbian entertainment website Queerty. The Rev. Matthew Makela made the announcement on Sunday in a letter to the congregation at St. John's Lutheran Church and School in Midland. His resignation became effective Monday.

    According to screenshots obtained by Queerty, Makela was soliciting sex from men on Grindr, an app geared toward gay, bisexual and bi-curious men. The married father of five reportedly confirmed the authenticity of the screenshots to Queerty but declined to comment. The article also included a screenshot of a Facebook post opposing gay marriage that Makela wrote in September that read:

    "Read these words this morning: 'Long before gay marriage was part of our national discussion, natural marriage did not always reflect God's will of love and submission. Divorce became common, love in marriage grew colder and children were not always seen as a blessing. Changing the culture begins with changing our culture of marriage and family, taking the marriage union with the utmost seriousness and welcoming children in our church.' AMEN!"

    Makela told Queerty that he resigned from his position after the story surfaced and that his wife and senior pastor were aware of his activity on the app. In a letter posted on the St. John's church website, the church's senior pastor, the Rev. Daniel Kempin tells parishioners that Makela "has acknowledged that there was sin and repentance, and I have testified that there is indeed forgiveness through the same Lord who forgives all our sins." He goes on to say, "To make matters worse, though, the details of sin that have been kept confidential are being posted online by those who seek to do harm to the Makela family and to St. John's."

    Makela's bio was removed from the church's website Monday afternoon.

    [...]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,105 ✭✭✭Kivaro


    Josh Duggar quits Family Research Council, a conservative lobbying organization, after molestation claims.

    Duggar, a high-profile member of the evangelical Christian family that stars on TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting,” and a conservative and anti-gay activist, resigned from his position at the Family Research Council on Thursday after reports that detailed multiple instances in which Duggar had allegedly committed acts of sexual misconduct against minors.

    More here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/05/21/josh-duggar-apologizes-resigns-from-family-research-council-amid-molestation-allegations/


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Kivaro wrote: »
    Josh Duggar quits Family Research Council, a conservative lobbying organization, after molestation claims.
    Could happen to a bishop.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Vatican cardinal caught up in hospital financing investigation

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/20/uk-italy-cardinal-idUKKBN0P00EY20150620?irpc=932
    Reuters wrote:
    Italian magistrates suspect a Vatican cardinal may have diverted 30 million euros (21.45 million pounds) in state funds destined for a children's hospital to save a Church-owned institution and kept the operation from Pope Francis, Italian media reported on Saturday. Both Cardinal Giuseppe Versaldi and the Bambino Gesu hospital, denied any wrongdoing in separate statements.

    Leading Italian newspapers said magistrates in the southern city of Trani suspected the two violated laws on inappropriate use of public funds. The southern magistrates asked their Rome colleagues to take up the investigation. The reports were based on leaked documents from magistrates, including transcripts of police wiretaps, that emerged from another investigation into a fraudulent bankruptcy of a health institution in the south.

    They said Versaldi and former Bambino Gesu President Giuseppe Profiti agreed to divert 30 million euros of the 80 million euros the Italian senate had destined for Rome's Bambino Gesu paediatric hospital in 2014. The magistrates suspect that the money may have gone instead to save the Istituto Dermatologico dell' Immacolata (IDI), a dermatological clinic in Rome owned by a Catholic religious order.

    At the time IDI was placed under receivership after it ran up losses of more than 600 million euros and risked closing. According to a wiretap of a conversation between Versaldi and Profiti, they allegedly agreed to keep the subject from the pope at a meeting with him later that day in February, the newspapers said.

    Versaldi, who was then head of a Vatican economic department, said in a statement sent to Italian news agencies he had not kept anything from the pope but had wanted to spare him the technical details of the financial operation to save IDI. Bambino Gesu, which was donated to the Vatican in 1924 and is considered one of Italy's best paediatric hospitals, said in a statement sent to Reuters that it "categorically denied" the reports and that "not even one euro" had been diverted.

    Many hospitals in Italy that are religiously affiliated receive state funds because of the role they play in the country's overall health care system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭wp_rathead


    Brendan Smyth
    What scum

    So the Gardaí knew about him since 1974


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Sickening, but not at all surprising.

    And we wonder why nothing is happening in Tuam?

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,993 ✭✭✭✭recedite


    He asked a psychiatrist to write a letter to the Gardai, which seems to have got him off the hook.
    In a letter to an officer at Finglas garda station dated 1 November 1973, Smyth's psychiatrist said he was recommending the cleric be admitted for treatment.
    The doctor said: "I have been asked to write to you by Fr Brendan Smyth of Holy Trinity Abbey, Kilnacrott.
    "He has been a patient under my care for some months and I am familiar with the nature of his problems. I am writing to his superior suggesting that he should have a period of inpatient care in St Patrick's Hospital or in St Edmonds Bury.
    "I hope this arrangement will be satisfactory to you and your superiors."
    source


    There's a lot wrong with that.
    Firstly, the psychiatrist should not have been so easily manipulated.
    Secondly, the Gardai should not have dropped whatever actions they were planning themselves. If he had been charged and found guilty, he could have been sent for treatment after the conviction, if that was deemed more appropriate than jail time (which I doubt).
    Thirdly and most importantly, he should have been monitored for life afterwards, and barred from ever going near kids.

    I wonder if he even attended this "period of in-patient care".


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,594 ✭✭✭eire4


    Sickening, but not at all surprising.

    And we wonder why nothing is happening in Tuam?



    It would seem the current government is still more interested in sweeping the mother and child scandals under the carpet as well. Given what we know now you would think they would falling over themselves to get a fully independant inquiry set up with wide ranging scope to investigate. But that clearly isn't the case. They seem more concerned with the bank balance then the many human lives damaged and even destroyed. Just disgusting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,033 ✭✭✭realdanbreen


    I am a Catholic but I do think as a result of what I have been hearing over the last few days re Brendan Smyth and the part that Cardinal Brady played in investigating the claims of the young boys who were abused by Smyth that the cardinal should resign his post today. Speaking about it being a different time and a different culture etc is pure horse$h1t, abusing kids(abusing anybody!) was just as wrong in 1975 as it would be today.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,386 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Speaking about it being a different time and a different culture etc is pure horse$h1t [...]
    Apart from the awfulness of the crimes and the coverups, it suggests that "God's law never changes" comment is a little more flexible than it seems.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,414 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    robindch wrote: »
    Apart from the awfulness of the crimes and the coverups, it suggests that "God's law never changes" comment is a little more flexible than it seems.
    I'f be fairly sure that God's law never allowed for the raping of children.
    The RCC though...


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    Ex-archbishop says woman was 20 when they first had sex

    A former Catholic archbishop has told the High Court that a Nigerian woman featured in a TV documentary was 20 when he first had sex with her.

    Richard Burke denied that she was 13 or 14 as had been claimed.

    He was giving evidence in his defamation claim against RTÉ over allegations made about him in the RTÉ documentary A Mission To Prey.

    ...

    He said he decided to pay her a lump sum of €50,000 to avoid prolonging the nightmare.

    In July 2008 she rang again demanding €100,000 which he paid to her in London because he was "simply terrorised" that she would reveal their intimate relationship.

    "I was ashamed and utterly terrified. It would bring disgrace upon me and my family, the diocese, the priests and the people," he said.

    She later demanded €200,000 but he could not pay that.

    "There were no further payments but there was a price I had to pay I told her there was no way on earth I could get €200,000 so she said all right you can’t get €200,000 but I want you to meet me in Canada and we will have full sex."

    Asked did that happen, he replied: "It happened. I went to Halifax in Nova Scotia, that was February 2009."

    Asked what his flaws were, he replied: "I can be vulnerable."

    Asked what he meant by that he replied: "I can be taken advantage of."



    Stolen cash, and sex for payment? It could happen to an archbishop...

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    kbannon wrote: »
    I'f be fairly sure that God's law never allowed for the raping of children.

    Well considering that it's based of the dictates of a being who doesn't exist, it doesn't really allow for, nor disqualify anything.

    However, looking at the various man made dictates that were ascribed to god, quite a few of them have no compunction about the raping of children, well girls anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    Ex-archbishop says woman was 20 when they first had sex

    A former Catholic archbishop has told the High Court that a Nigerian woman featured in a TV documentary was 20 when he first had sex with her.

    Richard Burke denied that she was 13 or 14 as had been claimed.

    He was giving evidence in his defamation claim against RTÉ over allegations made about him in the RTÉ documentary A Mission To Prey.

    ...

    He said he decided to pay her a lump sum of €50,000 to avoid prolonging the nightmare.

    In July 2008 she rang again demanding €100,000 which he paid to her in London because he was "simply terrorised" that she would reveal their intimate relationship.

    "I was ashamed and utterly terrified. It would bring disgrace upon me and my family, the diocese, the priests and the people," he said.

    She later demanded €200,000 but he could not pay that.

    "There were no further payments but there was a price I had to pay I told her there was no way on earth I could get €200,000 so she said all right you can’t get €200,000 but I want you to meet me in Canada and we will have full sex."

    Asked did that happen, he replied: "It happened. I went to Halifax in Nova Scotia, that was February 2009."

    Asked what his flaws were, he replied: "I can be vulnerable."

    Asked what he meant by that he replied: "I can be taken advantage of."



    Stolen cash, and sex for payment? It could happen to an archbishop...

    So basically we're supposed to trust the word of a self professed serial criminal, in that he didn't statutorily rape a minor? In all honesty, he shouldn't have taken this case to court, nor should the court be allowing him to attempt to profit from his criminality by suing a broadcaster.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,907 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    So basically we're supposed to trust the word of a self professed serial criminal, in that he didn't statutorily rape a minor? In all honesty, he shouldn't have taken this case to court, nor should the court be allowing him to attempt to profit from his criminality by suing a broadcaster.
    Hold on. In calling him a "self-professed serial criminal", are you asuming that he did have sex with a minor? 'Cause it seems he denies that. Or has he admitted to committing some other crime serially?


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    He stole large amounts of money and has admitted to being in a 'repayment arrangement' with the RC church.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/rté-lied-about-abuse-former-archbishop-tells-high-court-jury-1.2263344
    Some of the €176,000 had come out of diocesan funds, money that Mr Burke had made an agreement with the Vatican to repay, counsel said.

    The case continues.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,814 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Time to get the mandatory "the money was just resting in my account" reference in. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,650 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe


    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-naked-man-the-dart-and-me-1.2272335
    Joe says he was put into an industrial school at the age of 12. “I’ve been in prison ever since,” he says. He started heroin at 16 and has been in and out of prison for theft to pay for drugs.

    He mentions The General, Martin Cahill.

    He talks about the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse.

    Joe seems unaware of the other commuters eavesdropping on our conversation. He rants about paedophiles and “Brothers”. He says he was sexually abused and that the drugs were meant to kill the pain, but they didn’t. He says he sees the demons who abused him all day and all night, and can’t get them out of his head.

    Untold thousands of lives destroyed. This is not something in the past that we, the state and the RCC can brush under the carpet however much we may wish to - the still living victims of our brutal industrial school / slave laundry system suffer today and their children snatched and sold still suffer the loss of their identity.

    This remains a deeply damaged society and yet we are determined to pretend that everything is normal even as we drink and drug ourselves into oblivion, we have unknown numbers of incestuous marriages because tens if not hundreds of thousands of people have no idea who their real parents were. Nuns withholding the truth and records lost in mysterious 'fires'. Thousands of infants whose deaths were never explained and whose place of burial was never recorded and nobody in authority gives a tuppenny damn.

    It took a while but I don't mind. How does my body look in this light?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/the-naked-man-the-dart-and-me-1.2272335



    Untold thousands of lives destroyed. This is not something in the past that we, the state and the RCC can brush under the carpet however much we may wish to - the still living victims of our brutal industrial school / slave laundry system suffer today and their children snatched and sold still suffer the loss of their identity.

    This remains a deeply damaged society and yet we are determined to pretend that everything is normal even as we drink and drug ourselves into oblivion, we have unknown numbers of incestuous marriages because tens if not hundreds of thousands of people have no idea who their real parents were. Nuns withholding the truth and records lost in mysterious 'fires'. Thousands of infants whose deaths were never explained and whose place of burial was never recorded and nobody in authority gives a tuppenny damn.

    I think they do give a damn. They give a damn about what will emerge if we actually start to really investigate and how that will affect the whole basis of their authority.


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