Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

1979: Disquiet at RTÉ reaching into Northern Ireland

  • 02-01-2010 12:54am
    #1
    Apogee
    Registered Users Posts: 3,761 ✭✭✭


    Disquiet at RTÉ reaching into Northern Ireland

    EAMON PHOENIX

    Wed, Dec 30, 2009

    MAST AT BORDER: POSSIBLE POLITICAL implications of the erection of an RTÉ transmitter on the Derry-Donegal border concerned Whitehall and Stormont officials in 1979, according to Stormont releases.

    The decision to establish a transmitter station at Holywell Hill in Co Donegal on the Border with Derry was raised in a letter from the British Home Office to the Northern Ireland office (NIO) in May 1979.

    A home office official E Soden observed that, while the British government had no engineering objection to the transmitter, it proposed to ask “the Éire administration” to limit its power to 5kw in the direction of Northern Ireland.

    Even with this restriction, the official noted, RTÉ programmes would be received more widely in Derry and the North West.

    The official added: “There is some speculation that this may be the first move by the Irish to extend coverage of their television services to Northern Ireland.”

    In further correspondence on the matter Stormont official B D Palmer cited the “grandiose idea” of Conor Cruise O’Brien when minister for post and telegraphs for “an all-Ireland cultural exchange by television”.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1230/1224261407194_pf.html


Comments

  • #2
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Remember seeing RTE pictures on TV near Armoy in N. Antrim in 1960's but unsure of what transmitter they came from. Anyone any ideas? Must say I was delighted to receive RTE from Clermont Carn when its signal boomed into NI in early 1980's and I came from a Protestant background! There was live 1st Division Football, live League Cup Final action and live FA Cup matches which you couldn't get on BBC or UTV! Oh for the good old pre-Sky days!


  • #3
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Apogee wrote: »
    Disquiet at RTÉ reaching into Northern Ireland

    EAMON PHOENIX

    Wed, Dec 30, 2009

    MAST AT BORDER: POSSIBLE POLITICAL implications of the erection of an RTÉ transmitter on the Derry-Donegal border concerned Whitehall and Stormont officials in 1979, according to Stormont releases.

    The decision to establish a transmitter station at Holywell Hill in Co Donegal on the Border with Derry was raised in a letter from the British Home Office to the Northern Ireland office (NIO) in May 1979.

    A home office official E Soden observed that, while the British government had no engineering objection to the transmitter, it proposed to ask “the Éire administration” to limit its power to 5kw in the direction of Northern Ireland.

    Even with this restriction, the official noted, RTÉ programmes would be received more widely in Derry and the North West.

    The official added: “There is some speculation that this may be the first move by the Irish to extend coverage of their television services to Northern Ireland.”

    In further correspondence on the matter Stormont official B D Palmer cited the “grandiose idea” of Conor Cruise O’Brien when minister for post and telegraphs for “an all-Ireland cultural exchange by television”.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1230/1224261407194_pf.html

    Interesting one. Considering the spillover from NI into RoI.:confused: Gas to see they way they refer to us as "Éire".:)


  • #4
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    One sure sees some strange ideas thrown around in these old Government records.

    Wasnt there another proposal by the UK government a few years earlier to try and persuade the Irish government to jam UK TV signals within the Republic for some bizzare reason ?

    Thankfully this crackpot idea was thrown out on technical grounds
    Digifriendly wrote: »
    Remember seeing RTE pictures on TV near Armoy in N. Antrim in 1960's but unsure of what transmitter they came from. Anyone any ideas?

    Truskmore ?????


  • #5
    Digifriendly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,015 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Truskmore ?????

    That would seem a long way from near N. Antrim coast but maybe you're right.


  • #6
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Digifriendly wrote: »
    There was live 1st Division Football, live League Cup Final action and live FA Cup matches which you couldn't get on BBC or UTV!

    Why not?


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Freddie59
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭Freddie59


    Elmo wrote: »
    Why not?

    Because RTE were showing matches on a Saturday afternoon. BBC and ITV were not allowed.


  • #8
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Because RTE were showing matches on a Saturday afternoon. BBC and ITV were not allowed.

    So is it a traditional thing that UK stations don't show these matches on a Saturday?


  • #9
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yes, that's still the case now, 3pm Saturday matches can't be shown on TV in the UK.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #10
    West Briton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭West Briton


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    One sure sees some strange ideas thrown around in these old Government records.

    Wasnt there another proposal by the UK government a few years earlier to try and persuade the Irish government to jam UK TV signals within the Republic for some bizzare reason ?

    Thankfully this crackpot idea was thrown out on technical grounds



    Truskmore ?????


    I've always found a small number of people in Britain vociferously object to the Irish receiving British television. Could never understand that mentality. Unsurprisingly they are also Tories or UKIP supporters.


  • #11
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    ^^ Like I said crackpots.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    West Briton wrote: »
    I've always found a small number of people in Britain vociferously object to the Irish receiving British television. Could never understand that mentality. Unsurprisingly they are also Tories or UKIP supporters.

    In fairness too them ehhh well just one point so

    The UK government would not allow cable services put other services on their network until the mid-1980s therefore RTÉ 1 and later 2 were not available on UK networks while in Ireland our networks were allowed put the 4 UK stations.

    However in saying this I am guessing it was not likely that that wasn't their point :rolleyes:


  • #13
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Elmo wrote: »
    The UK government would not allow cable services put other services on their network until the mid-1980s therefore RTÉ 1 and later 2 were not available on UK networks while in Ireland our networks were allowed put the 4 UK stations.

    What about the 1960's 405 lines relays of RTE mentioned elsewhere ?

    If its true that RTE couldnt be carried on cable in Britain before the mid eighties though its a tad bizzare given that East Germany (albeit reluctantly) allowed West German TV onto their cable systems a few years earlier


  • #14
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    What about the 1960's 405 lines relays of RTE mentioned elsewhere ?

    Illegal. The British Government would not allow any other TV services broadcast in the UK on cable systems, I suppose it was mainly to allow the ITV franchise holders have a stronger audience, HTV might have had issues with STV or Granada or UTV broadcasting into Wales. Cable was purely to enhance reception, for example only areas of the Republic with access to over the air transmissions of UK TV were allowed cable services.

    I will find out where I read this piece of information for you.

    When I say mid-1980s I should say early to mid-1980s coinciding with the advent of Satellite TV.


  • #15
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    If its true that RTE couldnt be carried on cable in Britain before the mid eighties though its a tad bizzare given that East Germany (albeit reluctantly) allowed West German TV onto their cable systems a few years earlier

    My German was never great and is pretty rusty now, caught the odd word, but some of those aerials were definitely too big to be serving one house!

    I'm amazed that that was tolerated though, capitalist running pig-dog counter-revolutionary imperialist propaganda was all it was.. :pac:

    Having a large aerial pointing west on your house, you might as well have had a sign up saying "Stasi, please interrogate me"

    Wonder when that video was. If there was tolerance shown to western broadcasts, I'm guessing it was very late in the life of the regime... 88 or 89 maybe...

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #16
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Hi ninja
    Your assumptions (particularly regarding dates) are not entirely correct but as I Dont want to drag the thread further OT with the German stuff If youre interested I suggest this wikipedia article and check out the discussion page while youre there.
    Having a large aerial pointing west on your house, you might as well have had a sign up saying "Stasi, please interrogate me"
    Safety in numbers combined with the fact that both sides had big transmitters along the border close enough (both geographically and frequency wise) in many case to be picked up on the same aerial helped somewhat.

    Getting back to RTE beaming into NI presumably the attitudes had changed somewhat by the time Claremont opened given that the UK authorities would have had to agree with it deviating from the normal frequency plan with rather oddball allocations so close to the border.


  • #17
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,801 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Safety in numbers combined with the fact that both sides had big transmitters along the border close enough (both geographically and frequency wise) in many case to be picked up on the same aerial helped somewhat.

    Come off it. Did you see the huge grouped antennas in the youtube video or what? Clearly large communal feeds in areas quite far from the border/West Berlin. The whole point of powerful transmitters into 'enemy' territory is that people don't need to give themselves away with huge aerials in order to receive you.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #18
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,479 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Elmo wrote: »
    Illegal. The British Government would not allow any other TV services broadcast in the UK on cable systems, I suppose it was mainly to allow the ITV franchise holders have a stronger audience, HTV might have had issues with STV or Granada or UTV broadcasting into Wales. Cable was purely to enhance reception, for example only areas of the Republic with access to over the air transmissions of UK TV were allowed cable services.

    I will find out where I read this piece of information for you.

    When I say mid-1980s I should say early to mid-1980s coinciding with the advent of Satellite TV.

    The Rediffusion cable systems in the west of the UK usually carried RTE in the 60s, as well as the adjoining ITV regions - when did they bring the ban in?


  • #19
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    MYOB wrote: »
    The Rediffusion cable systems in the west of the UK usually carried RTE in the 60s, as well as the adjoining ITV regions - when did they bring the ban in?

    Interesting I would have to look up the book that I read to get a date. But it was clear to say that BBC 1, 2 and Channel 3 (Region only) were only allowed on Cable, they could have been putting RTÉ and other Regions on the air illegally.


  • #20
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Not much reason to subscribe to cable unless off-air reception was totally hopeless.

    Even then not much of a business model for the cable companies as reception blackspots which were populated sufficently for cable to be viable would eventually be served by a relay.

    BTW the term "Channel 3" only began to be applied to ITV with the 1990 Broadcasting act. Even then it never really caught on (outside of regulatory circles)


  • #21
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Elmo wrote: »
    So is it a traditional thing that UK stations don't show these matches on a Saturday?

    I know it's an old post I'm quoting, but the reason is/was supposedly to keep up attendence at Saturday matches I think. In the US for most major sporting leagues there's a blackout in the area around it, which I think is downright ridculous.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    BTW the term "Channel 3" only began to be applied to ITV with the 1990 Broadcasting act. Even then it never really caught on (outside of regulatory circles)

    I was watching one of those open university media programmes called the Death of Television (or something) and they did a vox pop about what shows were on what channels at one of the people (non-media) called ITV Channel 3. Anyway I used the term Channel 3 just to define what I was talking about. I must get the report I read. Will post it during the week.
    Not much reason to subscribe to cable unless off-air reception was totally hopeless.

    In the states it made sense is some regions due to the high number of channels pushed on to UHF. And one of the reason in the UK why cable took so long to take off.


  • #23
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Come off it. Did you see the huge grouped antennas in the youtube video or what? Clearly large communal feeds in areas quite far from the border/West Berlin. The whole point of powerful transmitters into 'enemy' territory is that people don't need to give themselves away with huge aerials in order to receive you.
    ARD did have a number of high-powered transmitters close to the Inner German border (the one that split West and East). The use of multiple-aerial arrays may not have just been simply to overcome the distance from the transmitters, but also other obstacles including terrain and co-channel interference. Though apart from possibly the mast on the farm yard on the clip, the aerial set ups clearly looked like they were for communal feeds which in themselves require tighter & higher margins to ensure adequate reception for all. ZDF, which IIRC uses UHF only, as well as RTL and SAT1 which mostly used UHF at the time, would have had more limited penetration into the old East Germany but it seems they used satellite reception to get around problems for at least some of these channels.

    On a different note, I read a couple of weeks ago in the local newspaper here that in 1960 (50 years ago) a television dealer in Newtownstewart established a small cable network in the village to about 100 or so households the then fairly new Ulster Television service which by that time was only broadcasting from Black Mountain. I'd assume that after the Strabane station opened a few years later, this network was made redundant...


  • #24
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    lawhec wrote: »
    Aa television dealer in Newtownstewart established a small cable network in the village to about 100 or so households the then fairly new Ulster Television service which by that time was only broadcasting from Black Mountain. I'd assume that after the Strabane station opened a few years later, this network was made redundant...
    Maybe not completely redundant
    Whats Truskmore reception like around there ?

    RE: High power TX's on the German border both sides did this however ARD's attempts at border blasting were far more successful than their Eastern counterparts for geographical reasons. (Most major West German cities were too far from the border or were shielded by mountain ranges coupled with the fact that the GDR/DDR had a smaller and more compactly shaped landmass)


  • #25
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Maybe not completely redundant
    Whats Truskmore reception like around there ?
    There's a few houses/buildings with VHF Band III aerials for Truskmore, however the vast majority have UHF aerials for Holywell Hill.


  • #26
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    In 1980 UK cable TV was a quiet backwater known only to those householders who lived in locations not best served by the transmitters of the broadcast TV companies. In these places, often hilly or geographically remote, a private company erected a very large aerial usually on the highest hill and ran a cable that passed every house. A subscriber paid a weekly or monthly
    fee to be connected to the cable. From the connection the subscriber could receive broadcast television and radio. The TV sets in the home had no tuners. Around 2.5 million homes received their TV service from cable. These systems were restricted by law to relaying broadcast signals. They were not allowed to provide other programming.

    http://www.aldricharchive.com/cable_story.html


Advertisement