FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

super_furry · 16-10-2008 1:44am

Fianna Fail pissed away the greatest decade of economic success in this nation's history. What have we to show for 10 years of unprecidented growth? Empty apartments, overcrowded schools and hospital corridors full of trolleys. Fianna Fail have been a failure during their 10 years in power, but that doesn't matter and people will still vote them back in next time around and things will continue to go down the toilet.

dfx- · 16-10-2008 1:48am

So much party political crap in the thread.

*wanders off to check this is still AH*

rainbow kirby · 16-10-2008 1:52am

dfx- wrote: »

So much party political crap in the thread.

*wanders off to check this is still AH*

Yore Ma.

There. Happy?

dfx- · 16-10-2008 1:56am

Much better. Far more comforting than a tax cut.

KnifeWRENCH · 16-10-2008 2:08am

OPENROAD wrote: »

While I agree with you re Kenny, can you tell me why you shuddder at the thought of a FG Govt? What are the FG policies that worry you?

Oh it's not the policies that worry me - their election manifesto reads like a dream. It's the politicians that worry me.
Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are broadly similar in their policies (they're both "centre" parties) So the real difference is in the individual members. I look at Fianna Fail and I see a group of imperfect, yet determined and dedicated, politicians who have done a good job overall of leading this country for the past 11 years.
I look at Fine Gael and I see a bunch of sneering clowns who bitch and moan at every oppurtunity instead of offering anything productive*, fronted by a bloodless leader who, if in power, wouldn't have a clue of how to run this country. And I don't Richard Bruton would be much better tbh.

*The exception to this Dr. James Reilly, who I do think would be good as Minister for Health.

Enii · 16-10-2008 4:34am

I did not vote for FF.

However, I do apologise for voting for the Greens. So sorry. I will NEVER do this again.

phantom_lord · 16-10-2008 6:02am

Raiser wrote: »

Just say sorry and promise to never, ever do it again.......

lol, it's not like there's any viable alternative.

phantom_lord · 16-10-2008 6:05am

White_Feather wrote: »

yesterdays budget was an absolute disgrace

wat

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Frankly I don't care if Kenny is a boring, dull honest guy as long as he is capable.

it's painfully obvious that kenny is utterly incapable of running the county, fg will have to find themselves a new leader to attempt any serious campaign in the next election.

junkyard · 16-10-2008 9:18am

This country is rotten to the core with FF supporters, I still know people who think Haughy and Aherne are great guys and would travel miles to shake their hands:rolleyes:, If your willing to put up with the mess we're in and will be in you'll be happy with FF and the greens. I'm not and that's why I'm leaving this country. I never voted FF and never would but I'm really sorry for giving the greens a chance, that was a really big mistake.:(

arybvtcw0eolkf · 16-10-2008 9:29am

EX-FF voter here.

I humbly beg the boards forgiveness for voting these bastards in again.

(I didn't vote Green's and won't apologise for those looney fvckers)

Gandalf23 · 16-10-2008 9:55am

Lads, "debating" with the FF'ers here is like banging your head on a very large and hard brick wall.

For them to argue that negative equity is not a bad thing shows the extent to which they have been utterly brainwashed.

Check out my sig for a look at their real mentality. It says it all about the FF mouth pieces on boards.

Dyr · 16-10-2008 9:56am

super_furry wrote: »

Empty apartments, overcrowded schools and hospital corridors full of trolleys. Fianna Fail have been a failure during their 10 years in power, but that doesn't matter and people will still vote them back in next time around and things will continue to go down the toilet.

In all fairness they also made a lot of their buddies in the property game very, very rich. :pac:

Dinter · 16-10-2008 10:03am

snyper wrote: »

I was taught in a prefab classroom 20 years ago?

Its made out to be this terrible travesty...:rolleyes:

I think the travesty is Snyper, that they're still using the prefab you were taught in to teach kids today.

square_igloo wrote: »

Fianna Fail and Fine Gael are broadly similar in their policies (they're both "centre" parties) So the real difference is in the individual members. I look at Fianna Fail and I see a group of imperfect, yet determined and dedicated, politicians who have done a good job overall of leading this country for the past 11 years.

As you say yourself policy wise both parties are near interchangeable meaning the only difference that can be made is with the people who are sworn to enact them.

Are you telling us that you'll vote in politicians that you know are failures purely on the assumption that the other side are worse? Jeez Square, I didn't think you'd be one for short sightedness and partisan politics.

We enfranchise our politicians in the hope that they'll make things better for us. They've a few responsibilities and as far as I'm concerned have failed at every one. Let's look at our position now.

Health: The medical card is stripped back for over 70's. Drugs scheme threshold has risen. Hospitals are still overcrowded and disease ridden. HSE is a mess with frontline staff grotesquely out numbered by "support staff". I pay for the highest level of private medical insurance and will continue to do so as there is no real alternative.

Education: Schools are still overcrowded. Special needs support is near non existent. Some schools are uninhabitable. I will pay for private education for any children I have as over the next few years as the purse strings draw tighter the alternative is bound to become even less attractive.

Housing: Interesting coincidence? I don't even need to go into detail on that mess but as an example, the Government is determined to create sub prime mortgages for FTB's but only on new houses. It appears that you don't need the tent in Galway to get your pet political whore to work for you.

Gardai: It's likely that Garda recruitment will be cut to keep pace with 14000 members. I.e. one in one out. It's funny that the Government appears to think our society is crime free enough that they can cut Garda overtime. I suppose it's easy to sleep well when you've a Garda stationed on your door step though.

Infrastructure: For anyone who praises how the Government has "fixed" this I'd draw your attention to PPP and European Cohesion Funds. By itself the Government has done exactly squat bar allow permissions for sink hole estates to be built with no infrastructure etc.

Personal Finances: TBH for me this was the biggie. Over the last decade or so I did better and better as tax bands relaxed and were reduced. Granted, shadow taxes rose but overall I definitely saw an improvement in what I earned. However this was what should have happened as the exchequer was loaded through stamp duty etc. The Government, like a cheap whore, spent any surplus it had on feel good policies designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Our current circumstances show that there was no foresight by them. They taxed and spent and now to put it simply we're fucked. All these little tax breaks I enjoyed are going to be pared back and we'll find that despite all the gloss and shine of the Celtic Tiger, nothing has really changed.

For those reasons I've finally decided that the Devil you know is not always the best and will not vote FF again. (Well actually I will, at the bottom of my ballot so the transfers hurt them)

Marksie · 16-10-2008 10:17am

snyper wrote: »

And public transport infrastructure? Unless you dont get out very much, there has been massive investment and massive upgrading of our road netword. If you want to tell me a story about a pothole on your road in south Kerry good for you, but look at the motorways that have been rolled out over the last few years alone..

On this point snyper: roads are not public transport. The rail network and bus network are however...just.(and you aer now paying for those car parks too

)

But I recall reading before the election before the last one that only 1/10 of the road infrastructure had been built and at a massive budgetry overrun.

Money is tight now as FF and the people who own them have taken most of it.

As an outsider coming in, i was staggered at the way people tacitly accepted the open corruption and continued to do so... family FF brainwashing liek the above bein part of it.

The cosey alliance between FF and the developers and the way the developers have acted proves one thing: There is no honour amongst thieves.
I have had dealings with FF and they make you feel dirty TBH.

Oh and don't forget pPARS to the list of waste.

One poster brought something interestnig up: in winning this election FF are shouldering the balme for their own corrupt incompetence. If they had lost.
Sure would you be all on here saying Enda I knew he couldn't hack it.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-10-2008 10:27am

Irish voters would vote in George fvcking Bush in for a third term, given a chance. WITH Palin as VP.

Dinter · 16-10-2008 10:29am

Marksie wrote: »

Money is tight now as FF and the people who own them have taken most of it.

Sums it all up nicely!!

javaboy · 16-10-2008 10:30am

Dinter wrote: »

Well I ticked all the way down to 13 and voted McDowell there to ensure my vote worked against him as much as it could.

Sorry guys but getting rid of him was the best I could do by myself. :P

You do know you don't have to use all your preferences don't you? Although technically under PR I think voting someone last preference is effectively giving them no preference.

kevmy wrote: »

I hate the way people always say sure the other crowd are no better. I mean FF have essentially been in power for the last 21 years (bar 2.5 years of the Rainbow).
So how can people such rash judgements on FG + Lab then. Most of the heavy hitters in those parties have relatively little experience in Government. Also the Rainbow government was quite a good one and laid a lot of groundwork for the boom. We should remember that FG gained seats in the '97 election as the electorate deemed them to have done a good job but Lab collapsed as people blamed them for going back on their promise not to go into government with FF in '92.
Enda hasn't excelled as opposition leader but it is a difficult one to excel in, go to soft and people say that you are not landing enough punches; pull your punches and people say you're going too soft.
Recall if you can that Bertie was considered one of the worst Opposition leaders in his time but went on to have a long and popular period in office. The FG front bench has more talent, youth and enthusiasm than the whole of FF at the moment. A lot of lads marking time (Micheal Martin, Eamon O Cuiv, Willie O Dee), broken down old ministers (Mary Harney, Mary Hanafin), Cowen favourities (Mary Coughlan, Batt O Keefe) and geographical oddities(Martin Cullen)

+1 to everything you said. The idea of using the lack of FG experience in government against them is so stupid. "Rabble rabble I hate the government rabble" "So you'll be voting for someone else next time around then?" "No the opposition has no experience" :rolleyes:

It's funny how many people with that attitude here would berate the Americans for voting Republican again.

snyper wrote: »

I was taught in a prefab classroom 20 years ago?

Its made out to be this terrible travesty...:rolleyes:

+1. I don't get why people are so fixated with prefabs being bad. Fair enough the old ones are shabby but modern prefabs are efficient cheap, flexible and well insulated. More prefabs I say.

I think people like to make great complaints but forget to understand that there isnt an endless pit of money coming into the governments pocket.

Oh.. yea.. E VOTING MACHINES!!! WASTE WASTE WASTE!!

Annualy it takes 55 BILLION to run this country, what percentage of that are the e - voting machines?

People like to pick the sweet and easy targets like health and education and the aformentioned e voting machines but forget to put a little thought on how the government are going to pay for all these schools over night? Tax the rich? We already do.

I agree with you on the e-voting thing not being that costly. In the grand scheme of things it's small potatoes but it along with the Bertie Bowl and a few others are handy one-word indictments of the governments repeated failures and overspends on projects.

Btw the state of the health and education systems is the government's fault. If they had the balls to spend money on them properly *to sort them out instead of indulging in giveaway budgets, they could have been fixed while the cash was available. Now the money's dried up but the health service is not much better.

*I'm aware health gets a huge slice of the budget but it's about how it's spent. This government's attitude was to outsource blame to the HSE.

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

FF, while nowhere near perfect, were (and still are) the best/most experienced option out of a bad lot.

brianthebard wrote: »

Following that "logic" we should still be voting for Cumann na nGaedheal, since they were in government first, they clearly had more experience than DeV, who should therefore never have been elected.

Have to agree with Brian here. The best of a bad lot/most experienced argument is pure nonsense. Never mind Cumann na nGaedheal and Dev. The English before them were far more experienced than those amateurs.

Dinter · 16-10-2008 10:33am

javaboy wrote: »

You do know you don't have to use all your preferences don't you? Although technically under PR I think voting someone last preference is effectively giving them no preference.

It certainly is which is why Jowly got it!

Raiser · 16-10-2008 3:12pm

dfx- wrote: »

So much party political crap in the thread.

*wanders off to check this is still AH*

108 replies and over 2,500 views on a "Politics" thread in After Hours in well under 24 hours :eek:

- I just take it to mean that a lot of folks who would very definitely say that they've no interest in politics, can't help but to stop and stare at a particularly bad "car wreck" of a situation - its only human nature......What is probably holding their interest is the realisation that the clean-up money for this car wreck is going to come out of all of our pockets for the next decade.......Now where's my passport gone ???

The Star of the thread so far is the Fianna Failer who took the time to present the sanitised, cosmetically enhanced, likeable face of negative equity.

ninty9er wrote: »

We pay for Garrett and Albert's chariots, what's the problem.

@OP: Why exactly do you expect people to apologise for voting FF?

edit: and wtf is with the fascination with negative equity....it means diddly squat to any homeowner.

- Still not that many apologies though ???

javaboy · 16-10-2008 3:21pm

Raiser wrote: »

108 replies and over 2,500 views on a "Politics" thread in After Hours in well under 24 hours :eek:

You also got thread of the day. SPEECH!

jackal · 16-10-2008 4:20pm

It seems the "Better the devil you know" school of voting is alive and well. Look how well it has served us, and America, and the U.K...

If you think Irelands problems are simply the unforutunate consequences of an unforseen and international crisis, then keep drinking the kool aid and enjoy the next 4 years of glorious leadership.

Sometimes a change IS needed as those in power grow complacent and corrupt.

PS I apologise for voting green. Never again...

jaycen · 16-10-2008 4:27pm

I voted FF last time for one very simple reason, they were by far and away the only party that I could vote for:
Fine Gael - Enda Kenny, this guy couldn't win an egg and spoon race
Labour - ok but too single minded for real life
Sinn Fein - not ready to run a country
Greens - personally I detest them

what choice did we have?

With hindsight I'd have voted the same way, I'm not a party voter, I'll always try to imagine what would happen if whoever I vote for wins.

javaboy · 16-10-2008 4:34pm

jaycen wrote: »

I voted FF last time for one very simple reason, they were by far and away the only party that I could vote for:
Fine Gael - Enda Kenny, this guy couldn't win an egg and spoon race
Labour - ok but too single minded for real life
Sinn Fein - not ready to run a country
Greens - personally I detest them

what choice did we have?

With hindsight I'd have voted the same way, I'm not a party voter, I'll always try to imagine what would happen if whoever I vote for wins.

I'm really confused. Even with hindsight, you would vote FF again? This is despite the fact that FF have made a bags of the economy. You say you vote based on what you think will happen if they win.... but you know what happens when FF win. You're living in it. And you'd still vote FF?

You sound like a party voter to me.

Marcus.Aurelius · 16-10-2008 4:50pm

jaycen wrote: »

I voted FF last time for one very simple reason, they were by far and away the only party that I could vote for:
Fine Gael - Enda Kenny, this guy couldn't win an egg and spoon race
Labour - ok but too single minded for real life
Sinn Fein - not ready to run a country
Greens - personally I detest them

what choice did we have?

With hindsight I'd have voted the same way, I'm not a party voter, I'll always try to imagine what would happen if whoever I vote for wins.

That's a pathetic excuse for logic. You've seen the mismanagment now, and in the past. And yet you still voted for them.

The FGers tried to save money to help us through a Fianna Fail-sponsered train-wreck of an economy! The result: the Fianna Failures got back in and spent it all and wrecked the economy. (Think CJH!)

For God's sake people, wake the **** up.

javaboy · 16-10-2008 4:55pm

Joker wrote: »

That's a pathetic excuse for logic. You've seen the mismanagment now, and in the past. And yet you still voted for them.

The FGers tried to save money to help us through a Fianna Fail-sponsered train-wreck of an economy! The result: the Fianna Failures got back in and spent it all and wrecked the economy. (Think CJH!)

For God's sake people, wake the **** up.

That's all well and good but Enda Kenny isn't cool. We can't have someone uncharismatic as Taoiseach ffs! How the hell is he supposed to run the country if he doesn't look like someone you might have a few pints with?

We need a real charismatic leader like Mugabe or Castro or Sarkozy or Berlusconi.

sdanseo · 16-10-2008 4:58pm

jaycen wrote: »

I voted FF last time for one very simple reason, they were by far and away the only party that I could vote for:
Fine Gael - Enda Kenny, this guy couldn't win an egg and spoon race
Labour - ok but too single minded for real life
Sinn Fein - not ready to run a country
Greens - personally I detest them

what choice did we have?

+1, although I gave Trevor Sargent a vote (not first pref of course) - not a mistake I will make again. I really won't be voting FF next time though, they were the best of a bad bunch but I reckon it'll be time to see if FG can do any better in 3.5 years - they'd have a hard time doing worse.

javaboy · 16-10-2008 5:09pm

sdonn_1 wrote: »

+1, although I gave Trevor Sargent a vote (not first pref of course) - not a mistake I will make again. I really won't be voting FF next time though, they were the best of a bad bunch but I reckon it'll be time to see if FG can do any better in 3.5 years - they'd have a hard time doing worse.

We really expect the best from our politicians don't we? "There's the keys to the country lads. We'll only vote you out if you make an absolute cock up of it but other than that you'll be all right."

What really pisses me off is that if the electorate does actually vote this shower out of government (fingers crossed), whoever takes their place will end up being associated with the bad times.

Marcus.Aurelius · 16-10-2008 5:12pm

javaboy wrote: »

What really pisses me off is that if the electorate does actually vote this shower out of government (fingers crossed), whoever takes their place will end up being associated with the bad times.

I was thinking exactly the same thing at the beginning of the last election. Thanks to Fianna Fáil, not even a decent government could fix their god-awful screw-ups

taidghbaby · 16-10-2008 5:13pm

i would rather if FF politicians came out and offered an apology!!

all we hear is that the recession is due to global circumstances......and yes it probably is to a certain extent!! however our "celtic tiger" was also the result of global factors but they were well able to take ALL the plaudits that came with that-think 3 successive terms in office!!

if your gonna bask in the success of the good times then you should also be big enough to put up your hands when things are going wrong!!

but then again this total lack of responsibility is inherent throughout society nowadays (think consultants, planners, bank managers etc etc) and imo has come directly from senior political figures!!

to me our government and senior figures look like rats running from a sinking ship (analagy) and each and every one of them is trying to take care of their own arse!!

javaboy · 16-10-2008 5:14pm

Joker wrote: »

I was thinking exactly the same thing at the beginning of the last election. Thanks to Fianna Fáil, not even a decent government could fix their god-awful screw-ups

In fact FG are probably lucky they didn't get in at the last election. They would have come in just in time to get the blame for screwing up the economy Bertie built up with his bare hands.

FF Voters - Please apologise here.....

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