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Minister Shatter and Commissioner Callinan should both resign in disgrace

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Comments

  • #1982
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,536 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    I'm waiting to see the amount of leeway the Govt give the judge to investigate the recording issue, whom he can call to put questions to, and what powers are given him to force answers out of reluctant witnesses. I wonder will he use the GSOC to get hold of pertinent info, like documents it might hold, without running into the Data Protection Act.


  • #1983
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    As I've said before, courage is contagious - it's always the hardest for the first whistleblowers as they have no examples to follow and are sailing completely into the unknown - now that whistleblowers have come forward and finally been vindicated, it's my belief that more will surely follow.



    Agreed. The idea that the police ombudsman cannot investigate the chief is ridiculous, as is the idea that they can't open an investigation to look for evidence of something unless they already have concrete evidence (bugging of their offices and the gov't / Garda response), as is the idea that they be expected to involve the DOJ in everything when it's quite clear that the DOJ's trustworthiness and closeness to the commissioner / force in general is up for debate.

    GSOC needs to be made fully independent and allowed to do full investigations without its motives being questioned. Almost two months later I'm still absolutely astounded that they were subject to such a vicious assault for discovering evidence of a very, very serious potential crime being committed against them and for not informing those who in any reasonable person's mind might have either been involved in the bugging, or tipped off those who were involved.

    GSOC cannot possibly be expected to function under such conditions.

    I hope you are right regarding more WB's coming forward.

    It's clear now that AGS need a much stronger GSOC to have any sort of checks and balances in the system. I have very little faith that the current government have any appetite to implement the required changes though.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #1984
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    JRant wrote: »
    I hope you are right regarding more WB's coming forward.

    It's clear now that AGS need a much stronger GSOC to have any sort of checks and balances in the system. I have very little faith that the current government have any appetite to implement the required changes though.

    Is Shatter still there???


  • #1985
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Also, I've heard much twittering on, about how brilliant a legislator Shatter is.

    Can anyone find a list of legislation he has brought in during his tenure?


  • #1986
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    sopretty wrote: »
    Also, I've heard much twittering on, about how brilliant a legislator Shatter is.

    Can anyone find a list of legislation he has brought in during his tenure?

    he's at his desk 16hrs a day supposedly

    one of our hardest working ministers apparently

    I'd like to know how he stacks up on accomplishments too


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  • #1987
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    he's at his desk 16hrs a day supposedly

    one of our hardest working ministers apparently

    I'd like to know how he stacks up on accomplishments too

    Sure he's so busy he doesn't have time to open the mail.


  • #1988
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    Sure he's so busy he doesn't have time to open the mail.

    ..or stop at random alcohol checkpoints


  • #1989
    Dubl07
    Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Dubl07


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    Sure he's so busy he doesn't have time to open the mail.

    Candy Crush is sooo addictive. I wonder what level he's at.


  • #1990
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    The thing is, when I think about it, I can't think of any recent legislation introduced that I 'LIKE'.

    I'd love to see a list.


  • #1991
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    sopretty wrote: »
    The thing is, when I think about it, I can't think of any recent legislation introduced that I 'LIKE'.

    I'd love to see a list.
    http://www.alanshatter.ie/category/legislation/

    That's from his own official site.


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  • #1992
    tomdempsey200
    Registered Users Posts: 1,890 ✭✭✭tomdempsey200


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    http://www.alanshatter.ie/category/legislation/

    That's from his own official site.

    not much there
    some stuff about santa

    and the gards reducing crime?....can that be true?


  • #1993
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    tomdempsey200 wrote: »
    not much there
    some stuff about santa

    and the gards reducing crime?....can that be true?

    Ah, the Judges remuneration act?


  • #1994
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    JRant wrote: »
    I don't think i'm being deliberately harsh on the Garda at all. They're all part of the same game, keep your mouth shut, look after your pals and promotions a cert. open your mouth on anything and you can expect to have rats nailed to your door, physically assaulted and hounded out of the force.

    The problem as i see it is that they've been a law onto themselves for far to long and have had no oversight whatsoever. Give GSOC some real teeth to go after the corruption instead of all these stupid inquiries that never lead to anything.

    You make them sound a bit like the alleged republican and loyalists who didn't conform to the rules. Maybe you want them left lying on border roads for not conforming. It used to happen a lot around my way. Thankfully that day is over.


  • #1995
    fr3d12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 293 ✭✭fr3d12


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You make them sound a bit like the alleged republican and loyalists who didn't conform to the rules. Maybe you want them left lying on border roads for not conforming. It used to happen a lot around my way. Thankfully that day is over.

    JRant is right though.
    Right up until the early 90's AGS either failed to investigate allegations of clerical abuse or covered it up. Thankfully that day is over.


  • #1996
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    fr3d12 wrote: »
    JRant is right though.
    Right up until the early 90's AGS either failed to investigate allegations of clerical abuse or covered it up. Thankfully that day is over.

    Maybe but I doubt that they all knew or covered up. There's 10,000 or so of them. Like every other case it's the guilty who should be punished. JRant seems to have it in for all, guilty and innocent.


  • #1997
    Conas
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Conas


    A Nazi symbol, powder, and now the bomb disposal unit has been called in.

    Fair play to him. Now we'll all feel sorry for him, and he'll go about his business as our Minister for Justice as if nothing ever happened. :D


  • #1998
    Red Nissan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭Red Nissan


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Maybe but I doubt that they all knew or covered up. There's 10,000 or so of them. Like every other case it's the guilty who should be punished. JRant seems to have it in for all, guilty and innocent.

    I'm 59. Years of age that is, that means born in 1954. We do not have any connections with any guard. We fear them.

    As I was growing up, I used to be routinely threatened to be put into care or sent to Bessboro, and I was never going to be a pregnant girl, I was also threatened to be sent to Lota or Upton.

    WHY?

    My parents knew, KNEW, and they had NO association with the guards at all. Just add this into your consideration material.


  • #1999
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Red Nissan wrote: »
    I'm 59. Years of age that is, that means born in 1954. We do not have any connections with any guard. We fear them.

    As I was growing up, I used to be routinely threatened to be put into care or sent to Bessboro, and I was never going to be a pregnant girl, I was also threatened to be sent to Lota or Upton.

    WHY?

    My parents knew, KNEW, and they had NO association with the guards at all. Just add this into your consideration material.

    Sorry I don't understand your post.
    I feel for you though. Nobody should be threatened wrongly by anybody.


  • #2000
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,699 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Maybe but I doubt that they all knew or covered up. There's 10,000 or so of them. Like every other case it's the guilty who should be punished. JRant seems to have it in for all, guilty and innocent.

    Far from it, I don't have it in for anybody. All I want is for those who are charged with upholding the law to actually do their job and uphold it. Is that to much to ask for.

    Why is calling for GSOC to be given more powers "having it in for AGS"?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #2001
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    tayto lover wrote: »
    You make them sound a bit like the alleged republican and loyalists who didn't conform to the rules. Maybe you want them left lying on border roads for not conforming. It used to happen a lot around my way. Thankfully that day is over.

    ....WTF? O_o


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  • #2002
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    JRant wrote: »
    Far from it, I don't have it in for anybody. All I want is for those who are charged with upholding the law to actually do their job and uphold it. Is that to much to ask for.

    Why is calling for GSOC to be given more powers "having it in for AGS"?

    Horse ****e! You've basically blackened every member of the force and painted them all with the same brush. Some of the finest people you will ever meet are members of AGS and contribute greatly to society both on and off duty. Maybe you would care to give us a percentage of members you feel are doing their job!


  • #2003
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Horse ****e! You've basically blackened every member of the force and painted them all with the same brush. Some of the finest people you will ever meet are members of AGS and contribute greatly to society both on and off duty. Maybe you would care to give us a percentage of members you feel are doing their job!

    Well, I have to say, you're not contributing greatly to either society or the perception of AGS. I wonder are they aware that you're acting as spokesperson?


  • #2004
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    sopretty wrote: »
    Well, I have to say, you're not contributing greatly to either society or the perception of AGS. I wonder are they aware that you're acting as spokesperson?

    Am I not entitled to an opinion, or is that only confined to critics


  • #2005
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    Am I not entitled to an opinion, or is that only confined to critics

    Oh, you're quite entitled to an opinion. That said, most of your contributions on here have been rantings, ravings, LOL's, insults and little more.


  • #2006
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    sopretty wrote: »
    Oh, you're quite entitled to an opinion. That said, most of your contributions on here have been rantings, ravings, LOL's, insults and little more.

    We'd make a great couple you and me!


  • #2007
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    We'd make a great couple you and me!

    Add deflection to your tactics. Anything but substantive arguments. :cool:


  • #2008
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    sopretty wrote: »
    Add deflection to your tactics. Anything but substantive arguments. :cool:

    :)


  • #2009
    sopretty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭sopretty


    Shady Tady wrote: »
    :)

    Doesn't work in society and it certainly doesn't wash with a Judge my dear. ;)


  • #2010
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,429 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    JRant wrote: »
    Far from it, I don't have it in for anybody. All I want is for those who are charged with upholding the law to actually do their job and uphold it. Is that to much to ask for.

    Why is calling for GSOC to be given more powers "having it in for AGS"?

    We all want fair play, for everybody.
    You did generalise a lot I felt.
    There's good and bad in all walks of life.


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  • #2011
    Shady Tady
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Shady Tady


    sopretty wrote: »
    Doesn't work in society and it certainly doesn't wash with a Judge my dear. ;)

    Neither does brandishing a whole police force of 13.000 as corrupt. That's the sort of thing a recently released sex offender might want to do after joining boards.ie and becoming a keyboard warrior venting their anger at being put away and pretending they are a pillar of society. There is corruption but it's no worse that any other police force, not accepting there are good people in the force shows you have little credibility.


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