Public Sector Workers are preparing for 8% paycut - where did this info come from?

webtargets · 23-11-2009 6:03pm #1

I work in the public sector. some of the lads striking tomorrow think we're getting an 8% paycut across the board. I see another thread that claims it will be only 2% (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6927052.ece). Where are peopel getting these figures from?

Do people gneuinely think they'll cut people on under €30K by 8%???

...it seems incredible

Riskymove · 23-11-2009 6:04pm

restricted information and chinese whispers on all sides

Mcloke · 23-11-2009 6:19pm

All pay cuts in any form are hard to swallow...the public sector has already had a paycut of approx 7% this year (the pension levy) which would be a total of 15% if another 8% got cut and before anyone shouts at me...I also have friends in the private sector who have had 2 x 10% paycuts this year but I also know others in the private sector who have had no paycut.

I wish people would start opening their eyes that this is not about which sector (if either) you work in and more about how badly this country has been run....and that is NOT the individuals who happen to work in the public sectors fault.

No I don't work in the public sector :rolleyes:

The post I was responding to has dissappeared

ardmacha · 23-11-2009 6:56pm

The government is proceeding in an unprincipled way, in total contravention of any principle of industrial relations.

They could say that they are rescinding increases in 2008 or 2007
they could say that they are returning scales to 2006.
They could say that they are unwinding benchmarking
they could say that they are going to put people on salaries based on 2003 + the CPI changes since then.

Any of these things would have a basis and would achieve the desired reduction to expenditure to match the reduction in taxation. But instead they apply cuts/levies based on nothing in particular or at best based on the idea that people who get paid more should have a bigger cut, although the CSO data largely suggests that it is people at lower levels who have rates most out of line.

Pay levels in the public service should be established by reference to the pay in Ireland and comparable countries. Contributions to the less well off and the National good should be handled through the tax system. The government have seen this coming for 18 months now yet there is little sign of any rational thinking on the subject. People might be happy with short term measures if there was any sign of a long term plan.

dvpower · 24-11-2009 12:31am

webtargets wrote: »

Do people gneuinely think they'll cut people on under €30K by 8%???

Not a chance in hell.

webtargets · 24-11-2009 10:14am

Its as though the government wanted this strike to go ahead. This country is gettin more and more ridiculous. Scalpin public sector when people who work for banks and financial companies havnt seen any hit in pay at all?? BOI got a pay increase weeks after we got hit with the first levy earlier this year. And we've bailed them out! People dont even know what they're striking for. They're striking coz they're scared

anonymous_joe · 24-11-2009 11:00am

webtargets wrote: »

I work in the public sector. some of the lads striking tomorrow think we're getting an 8% paycut across the board. I see another thread that claims it will be only 2% (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article6927052.ece). Where are peopel getting these figures from?

Do people gneuinely think they'll cut people on under €30K by 8%???

...it seems incredible

Course they will.

The government is spending more money than it has. It's going to cut the public service's pay.

jimmycrackcorm · 24-11-2009 3:09pm

webtargets wrote: »

Its as though the government wanted this strike to go ahead. This country is gettin more and more ridiculous. Scalpin public sector when people who work for banks and financial companies havnt seen any hit in pay at all?? BOI got a pay increase weeks after we got hit with the first levy earlier this year. And we've bailed them out! People dont even know what they're striking for. They're striking coz they're scared

It's not about one set or workers getting hit while another doesn't - it's about the employers affording the payroll. the public sector is getting "scalped" because there is not enough tax revenue to pay for it and they are overpaid anyway.

Having said that, I do think that the bank staff should get hit anyway as without taxpayer money the banks would have to cut their payroll also.

Drumpot · 24-11-2009 3:37pm

I have had this debate over and over again.

Im not a public servant employee and simply believe that no one sector should be protected at the expense of another.

That said, I empathise with anybody struggling to meet their bills, but there is hardship being handed out to EVERYBODY.

The public service is NOT getting it worse then the rest of us, we are all worried , whether its about losing or jobs or getting reduced wages. This is the main problem many people have with the public servants. They are screaming from the hills as if they are the only ones experiencing difficulty or pain and speak as though we are privileged to have them working for us!

Just curious about this . .

If this is the greatest economic crisis our country has ever seen , is getting a 15% - 20% pay cut (while keeping your job) really that obscene or unfair ?

What exactly do you think a recession or Depression entails ?

What exactly is fair about them ?

ardmacha · 24-11-2009 3:42pm

If this is the greatest economic crisis our country has ever seen , is getting a 15% - 20% pay cut (while keeping your job) really that obscene or unfair ?

It is rather odd that people in non cyclical sectors are expected to suffer 20% pay cut when GDP will only fall by 13%, most have not had paycuts and others continue to receive pay rises.

leninbenjamin · 24-11-2009 3:46pm

webtargets wrote: »

Do people gneuinely think they'll cut people on under €30K by 8%???

...it seems incredible

have you seen the size of the budget deficit? can you honestly see that money coming from anywhere else but cuts to current expenditure?

Are you aware that the size of the current budget deficit is greater than the total income tax take for the country?

are you aware that the cost of living has fallen in this country by 6% this year alone? Indeed I'd hazard it's well over 10% myself since the 2007 peak.

that people can't face up to the fact we need cuts... it seems incredible

Drumpot · 24-11-2009 3:48pm

ardmacha wrote: »

It is rather odd that people in non cyclical sectors are expected to suffer 20% pay cut when GDP will only fall by 13%, most have not had paycuts and others continue to receive pay rises.

Its rather odd that you didnt answer my questions & chose one point as if it cancels out all other arguements for certain cuts . . .

pwd · 24-11-2009 3:51pm

€54 billion of taxpayers money being given to the banks is what's unbelievable. Cuts in private sector salaries are to be expected after that. It's just one of many many things they will do to squeeze €54 billion euro out of the people of the country. It's pure theft imo.

leninbenjamin · 24-11-2009 3:54pm

pwd wrote: »

€54 billion of taxpayers money being given to the banks is what's unbelievable. Cuts in private sector salaries are to be expected after that. It's just one of many many things they will do to squeeze €54 billion euro out of the people of the country. It's pure theft imo.

you do realise that €54 billion is being kept off the books (some EU loop hole)? Our current budget deficit is before the expenditure to the banks has even been taken into consideration. Cuts would have to come regardless.

pwd · 24-11-2009 4:06pm

so where did the 54 billion come from?

Wile E. Coyote · 24-11-2009 4:12pm

I'm sick and tired of listening to this bullsh*t about the poor public sector workers who have to take a paycut. When are you going to realise that the country can't afford your wages?

I'm on or at least I was on €32k. I got hit with a 15% pay cut. Did I have a choice to strike? No. It was either take the cut or bag your bags. Thats what should be done with you lot as well. Either you take the cut or you find another job!

McTigs · 24-11-2009 4:13pm

pwd wrote: »

so where did the 54 billion come from?

Low interest loan from the European Central Bank

Probably given on condition that cuts are made to expenditure especially the public sector pay bill which i'm sure they view as astronomical

techdiver · 24-11-2009 4:14pm

pwd wrote: »

so where did the 54 billion come from?

Bonds that are redeemable through the ECB.

pwd · 24-11-2009 4:16pm

so it's not off the books...it's still money owed by the taxpayers.

bad2dabone · 24-11-2009 4:21pm

just a question is it true that increments of 3% were paid to Public sector workers? i'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, i heard some guy on the radio saying that increments of 3% were paid this year. just want to know if its true.

techdiver · 24-11-2009 4:22pm

pwd wrote: »

so it's not off the books...it's still money owed by the taxpayers.

It does not count against are current deficit or our national debt figure. If NAMA did not happen the cuts in the budget would still have to be made. We are basically running the county on the credit card at the moment and we are going close to maxing it out at this stage. When that happens we have no other avenue to generate borrowing and the country goes bankrupt.

If this happens the ECB will dictate terms (as I don't think the IMF will be invited into a Euro zone country), in the harshest possible way quite similar to the way the IMF would. They are not answerable to unions and will make unilateral cuts across the boards in pay/pensions/social welfare and no amount of striking or moaning about it will make the slightest bit of difference.

P. Breathnach · 24-11-2009 4:27pm

pwd wrote: »

€54 billion of taxpayers money being given to the banks is what's unbelievable...

Of course it's unbelievable. It's not true.

pwd · 24-11-2009 4:33pm

ok
I think the point I'm trying to make is still valid though.
Which is that the paycuts are an inevitable result of the country not having enough money. So if people are going to strike and protest, it should be when the government is deciding to provide a bailout, or other decisions that lead to this situation.

Gumbo · 24-11-2009 4:35pm

bad2dabone wrote: »

just a question is it true that increments of 3% were paid to Public sector workers? i'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone here, i heard some guy on the radio saying that increments of 3% were paid this year. just want to know if its true.

i dont think so, i didnt get it.
that was part of the 2016 wage agreement which has been cancelled iirc.

incriments are still being paid though i think, im not due one so cant say for sure, but they may be scrapped in Dec budget, who knows.

pwd · 24-11-2009 4:35pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Of course it's unbelievable. It's not true.

It's quite widely published...

Ireland is about to pay 54 billion euros in bonds to cleanse banks of risky property loans via a "bad bank", the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), with the bonds to be cashed in by the European Central Bank.

http://www.reuters.com/article/managementIssues/idUSLJ31522320091119

LordDorington · 24-11-2009 4:36pm

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

I'm sick and tired of listening to this bullsh*t about the poor public sector workers who have to take a paycut. When are you going to realise that the country can't afford your wages?

I'm on or at least I was on €32k. I got hit with a 15% pay cut. Did I have a choice to strike? No. It was either take the cut or bag your bags. Thats what should be done with you lot as well. Either you take the cut or you find another job!

well said. There are people in my family who were private sector and have been told to take a cut in hours/pay or else... Its a pity the goernment wouldnt take the same hard line with the Public sector.

LordDorington · 24-11-2009 4:37pm

kceire wrote: »

i dont think so, i didnt get it.
that was part of the 2016 wage agreement which has been cancelled iirc.

incriments are still being paid though i think, im not due one so cant say for sure, but they may be scrapped in Dec budget, who knows.

I know some people who did get it. Its the obe they get every year? There was uproar when they thought they werent getting it but then it went ahead. Maybe it depends on which area they are in?

Absurdum · 24-11-2009 4:41pm

LordDorington wrote: »

well said. There are people in my family who were private sector and have been told to take a cut in hours/pay or else... Its a pity the goernment wouldnt take the same hard line with the Public sector.

You'll be pleased to hear that they have.

OMD · 24-11-2009 4:43pm

LordDorington wrote: »

I know some people who did get it. Its the obe they get every year? There was uproar when they thought they werent getting it but then it went ahead. Maybe it depends on which area they are in?

increments were paid as normal this year. Many public sector workers will earn more in 2010 after the pay cut than they did in 2009 due to increments

LordDorington · 24-11-2009 4:46pm

Absurdum wrote: »

You'll be pleased to hear that they have.

I doubt that. There are talks of turning this into a two or three day strike now.

RMDrive · 24-11-2009 4:46pm

OMD wrote: »

increments were paid as normal this year. Many public sector workers will earn more in 2010 after the pay cut than they did in 2009 due to increments

It's something that leads to some confusion IMO.
When someone in the private sector says that they are on a pay freeze, then that simply means that their wages will not increase.
PS workers who state that they are on a pay freeze do not include increments.
Increment = Pay increase!

Public Sector Workers are preparing for 8% paycut - where did this info come from?

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