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Gardai carrying Guns

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,652 ✭✭✭fasttalkerchat


    Locust wrote: »
    gun.jpg

    Armed Police with High Viz

    british-paramilitary-police-attack-demonstration-belfast-ireland.jpg

    Police dealing with public order - everyone of them carrying a 9mm Glock pistol

    Whats the big deal? Armed = Better Trained/Disciplined Police / Not Armed = Undisciplined and ill-equipped...

    And you really want this on your street. The lower photo looks to be residents blocking a sectarian march passing their houses and being manhandled away. Big machine guns look very intimidating especially in the old days of the RUC and army constantly pointing them at passing cars. Not something that does any police any good in terms of credability at a time when they rely on information from the public.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    ERU some cops are lefties however during occupy Melbourne many would have replaced the firearm drop leg with a foam


  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Locust


    And you really want this on your street. The lower photo looks to be residents blocking a sectarian march passing their houses and being manhandled away. Big machine guns look very intimidating especially in the old days of the RUC and army constantly pointing them at passing cars. Not something that does any police any good in terms of credability at a time when they rely on information from the public.

    I don't want it - but sadly a lot of areas require this if they are to be policed effectively. (Thats an old MP5 - They are being phased out PSNI are now rolling out the G36's which are bigger). Northern Ireland is a bad example on my part as it's an abnormal society, but criminals down here have just as much access to weaponry here as they do in the north. Police in most countries use submachines and rifles. People need to wake up - the world is not growing towards some mythical crime free Utopia - the world is shaking and crumbling and crime is on the rise everywhere. Its only matter of time before Gardai are armed - be it 10 - 20 years, it will happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,357 ✭✭✭Eru


    Zambia wrote: »
    ERU some cops are lefties however during occupy Melbourne many would have replaced the firearm drop leg with a foam

    On the left it seemed to be a medical pouch and asp but I will take your word for it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,845 ✭✭✭trellheim


    On the other hand I cant recall hearing/reading about any Garda (anywhere in the country) been murdered, due to been in the wrong place at the wrong time, whilst on the duty.

    Jerry McCabe just passed you by then ? Seriously, get out of the thread.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Locust


    It sounds negative but i think its realistic to think that its only a matter of time before unarmed members responding to an emergency and confronting armed criminals are wounded or killed. I even think of that Traffic Cop shot a few years back on a routine traffic stop.

    Sad but - this is what would put pressure on the management to increase RSU patrols or start arming regular members in serious crime areas.

    For those that don't think members would be competent in firearms - They wouldn't just be handed out and off you go. You run what is called a training course. The training course is extremely high level of training and tests competence - it would be strict pass/fail, like anything else. If they aren't the right person psychologically or of the correct mental preparedness then they shouldn't carry, all of which should be assessed.

    The level of accountability and responsibility would be unprecedented, but at the end of the day - it would save lives. Thats the idea, thats the goal. Guards would also find a new respect. A small 9mm glock on the utility belt is not an aggressive look, its speaks of competency and commands great respect.

    Its better to have a gun and never need to use it that to need a gun and not have it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭Zambia


    Locust wrote: »
    If they aren't the right person psychologically or of the correct mental preparedness then they shouldn't carry, all of which should be assessed.

    If you are not fit to carry a firearm surely your just not fit to be a Garda.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Remmy


    If money wasn't an issue for the Gardai would increasing RSU numbers be a better option than outfitting every uniformed Garda with a firearm? I could see that happening when things pick up sooner than I could I see a comprehensive firearms training segment being taught in Templemore for students.

    Also another question I was pondering. Why are detectives(cid) in the UK usually not armed but detectives in the Gardai are? Would their investigative roles not be quite similar? Could we see Irish detectives no longer being armed if RSU numbers increase?


  • Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭POGAN


    Remmy wrote: »
    If money wasn't an issue for the Gardai would increasing RSU numbers be a better option than outfitting every uniformed Garda with a firearm? I could see that happening when things pick up sooner than I could I see a comprehensive firearms training segment being taught in Templemore for students.

    Also another question I was pondering. Why are detectives(cid) in the UK usually not armed but detectives in the Gardai are? Would their investigative roles not be quite similar? Could we see Irish detectives no longer being armed if RSU numbers increase?

    They where thinking of taken guns off the detectives before it has abated now, rsu numbers should have increase to 75 person unit but we know this hasnt happen still at 2008 levels, aren't 24/7 either


  • Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    Locust wrote: »
    For those that don't think members would be competent in firearms - They wouldn't just be handed out and off you go. You run what is called a training course. The training course is extremely high level of training and tests competence - it would be strict pass/fail, like anything else. If they aren't the right person psychologically or of the correct mental preparedness then they shouldn't carry, all of which should be assessed.

    I'd be fairly confident that members would be tested before being allowed to carry firearms day-to-day.

    What I wouldn't be confident about is the amount of time and money which would be made available for ongoing proficiency training. Shooting a pistol accurately requires continuous regular practice and I don't believe money would be made available to make sure every member could keep their skills up.

    By all means, arm Gardai if they feel it's necessary but don't do a half-assed job of it. It would only take one accidental discharge or a mis-aimed shot to risk public safety and seriously damage the reputation of the force.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sundy89


    On the other hand I cant recall hearing/reading about any Garda


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sundy89


    Im young just about to leave school and am thinking about joining AGS but Im afraid for my own health because a guy that I knew had his father who is in the AGS attacked and beaten while on duty. If he had been carrying a firearm or even a tazer he could have either fought the attackers himself or held them off until help arrived. Also if the public knew that AGS carried even tazers they'd know better than to **** with them. I think its time that we mean business as regards policing and in turn reduce crime as gangs have firearms and AGS should be able to match that routinely. Im not gonna lie the thought of carrying a tazer and giving off the image that im not to be ****ed with does pull me towards AGS


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,323 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    sundy89 wrote: »
    not gonna lie the thought of carrying a tazer and giving off the image that im not to be ****ed with does pull me towards AGS

    :rolleyes:

    That attitude will get you far.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    Uk traffic police have tasers. AGS should get them too?? However maybe it should be only traffic units that get them and they can be called upon or maybe only senior and experienced guards in a unit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sundy89


    Blay wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    That attitude will get you far.

    Just being honest it would pull more young people towards AGS


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    sundy89 wrote: »
    Just being honest it would pull more young people towards AGS

    And push a whole hell of a lot more away from any interaction with them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    sundy89 wrote: »
    Just being honest it would pull more young people towards AGS

    No it wont itl attract the wrong type with that attitude.

    How likely do ye think it is AGS will get tasers?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 318 ✭✭audidiesel


    Tyron Jara wrote: »
    Uk traffic police have tasers. AGS should get them too?? However maybe it should be only traffic units that get them and they can be called upon or maybe only senior and experienced guards in a unit.

    i dont get this whole idea that traffic should be armed with them and the regular not.

    firstly the regular units are first responders to over 99% of calls. if anyone should have them its the regular units. regular units routinely go to domestics etc with knives hammers screwdrivers etc involved. more often than not we are the first at scene at panic alarms in banks shops etc. pepper spray only goes so far.

    secondly, the current government policy is to slash traffic numbers to nothing anyways.

    thirdly, with the recruitment ban etc. there isnt a guard in the job who hasnt a minimum of three years policing under their belt.

    finally, even guards who have firearms training arent allowed carry tasers. im certified in and often carry a sig. yet im not allowed near a taser. wheres the sense in that.


    this isnt a slight on traffic units by the way so hopefully no one there takes any offence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    sundy89 wrote: »
    Im young just about to leave school and am thinking about joining AGS but Im afraid for my own health because a guy that I knew had his father who is in the AGS attacked and beaten while on duty. If he had been carrying a firearm or even a tazer he could have either fought the attackers himself or held them off until help arrived. Also if the public knew that AGS carried even tazers they'd know better than to **** with them. I think its time that we mean business as regards policing and in turn reduce crime as gangs have firearms and AGS should be able to match that routinely. Im not gonna lie the thought of carrying a tazer and giving off the image that im not to be ****ed with does pull me towards AGS


    Hmm Shampon care to retort to your Will fu**ing Smith answer to my post earlier.
    This is the exact reason all Gardai shouldn't be armed as u said in my earlier post.
    Even if only 5% of recruits have the "wannabe Will Smith" attitude it's far to many.
    That is why I said in my earlier post Guards would have to prove themselves competent time and again to be armed responsibly.any Guard that passes whatever litmus test is agreed should then be armed of that there is no question but imagine giving this or any any other recruit with this mentality a gun the day after they step out of Templemore?
    Come on?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭ Axel Future Serpent


    The guards don't need guns, there are rarely and I'm mean 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000 that there will be a incident where they need it. If you arm the guards then it will lead to criminals being better arm and hence more trouble. What I don't get is why people want the guards to have guns, what personal problems have you had that you think the guards need guns?
    Like many have said this is Ireland NOT the U.S get a grip people, seriously.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭deadwood


    declan2693 wrote: »
    get a gripe people, seriously.
    Most people here seem to have one already.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sundy89


    mikom wrote: »
    And push a whole hell of a lot more away from any interaction with them.

    well if thats the case then why do most police forces have tazers


  • Registered Users Posts: 10 sundy89


    Tyron Jara wrote: »
    No it wont itl attract the wrong type with that attitude.

    How likely do ye think it is AGS will get tasers?

    I agree with you it is very unlikely that AGS will get tazers but lets face it will attract young people


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,323 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    sundy89 wrote: »
    well if thats the case then why do most police forces have tazers

    They have them because they need them not because it makes the person carrying it a hard man. Anyone who thinks carrying a taser or having a gun makes them tough is an idiot.


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Kellan Hundreds Varnish


    I would agree with most saying no to firearms, but yes to tasers.

    Another idea would probably be one beanbag shotgun per car? These would stop most people with anything less than an actual firearm, and would also be a major deterrent. Would also be good in major public order events such a riots.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    I would agree with most saying no to firearms, but yes to tasers.

    Another idea would probably be one beanbag shotgun per car? These would stop most people with anything less than an actual firearm, and would also be a major deterrent. Would also be good in major public order events such a riots.


    The problem is "a riot" in Ireland starts when a few hippies walk down Dame Street on May Day and get attacked by a few over zealous guards.
    I can't recall the year just remember the beatings being meted out by a tiny percentage of guards.
    Imagine arming these idiots(the tiny %age)


  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Harry Bosch.


    sundy89 wrote: »
    Im young just about to leave school and am thinking about joining AGS but Im afraid for my own health because a guy that I knew had his father who is in the AGS attacked and beaten while on duty. If he had been carrying a firearm or even a tazer he could have either fought the attackers himself or held them off until help arrived. Also if the public knew that AGS carried even tazers they'd know better than to **** with them. I think its time that we mean business as regards policing and in turn reduce crime as gangs have firearms and AGS should be able to match that routinely. Im not gonna lie the thought of carrying a tazer and giving off the image that im not to be ****ed with does pull me towards AGS
    I suggest you choose another career. When i joined up it wasn't for the the image nor for what i'd carry on my belt. I joined up before the introduction of the ASP, Stabvest and Pepperspray. In 2007 i was issued a wooden Truncheon and sent on my merry way. When issued with my new kit and new IMAGE did it make me exempt from the public having a go? No, not one bit. You are young and i am not having a go, but join for the right reasons. As per the definition of assault you WILL get assaulted on duty, you will get bruised and battered and all off this will happen no matter what you carry on your belt. What happened to you friends father was unfortunate but it happens every night to Guards. I'll ask you this, Did you friends father quit or go back on the beat? I'd say he got right back out there. Why, because unfortunately it now become the norm.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 xperi


    for god sake dont arm them aminals, they caused enough harm in waterford giving a lad a beating just imagine if them muckers had guns that night


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,323 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    xperi wrote: »
    for god sake dont arm them aminals, they caused enough harm in waterford giving a lad a beating just imagine if them muckers had guns that night

    Yes...the actions of a few are indicative of the entire force. What a rational argument you make:pac:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭Harry Bosch.


    xperi wrote: »
    for god sake dont arm them aminals, they caused enough harm in waterford giving a lad a beating just imagine if them muckers had guns that night
    Could you please use proper spelling, grammer, maybe use Capitals, the odd full stop would help or get an adult to look over your post, very hard to read..What those Guards did that night was wrong and they have been punished.


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