The Corrib Tape

Terrontress wrote: »

I'd say the embarrassment to these Gardai is possibly punishment enough. I'd say that their career advancement prospects might have been hindered also.

The bottom line is that nobody has been injured or hurt and they were extremely ill-advised to do what they did. As I understand it, Gardai are leaving the force quicker than they are joining. To lose another three would be madness and to take three officers with front line training and experience and put them in an office, like Cedric Daniels in Season 2 of The Wire, is a waste of investment.

I think that the Commissioner should apologise on behalf of the whole service, the Gardai involved be made to make a donation to a rape charity and let all Gardai know the standards expected of them. Move on. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

The bottom line is that these Gardaí have broken no laws and probably no rules either. To punish them for a joke would be a gross miscarraige of justice and contrary to our constitution. Being a Garda doesn't mean you lose your civil liberties. Even the most violent of terrorists keep these. Whatever you think about their words you are in fact looking for someone to be punished for making a bad joke and I think it is sickening that two people can be so vilified for something like this.

I won't be judging them on what they said. Everyone has there own way of dealing with things. One of the Gardaí had basically been accused of being a rapist by the woman in question and he was making light of this. When a Garda has a false accusation made against them it is very hard to take in, I can only imagine what it must be like for someone to insinuate you are a rapist. He chose to deal with it by making a joke of it.

Lets get something straight here. There was no victim in this incident. The insincere and self-serving press release by the protester made me ill. To put herself on the same standing as a real victim in order to further her cause is more revolting than any joke. The comparison by a politician of this to a country under military rule is an insult to people who live in constant fear of murder and rape in this country. No doubt this whole incident will have a negative effect on real victims that will have to be prepared and the Gardaí involved will have to play their part in helping to repair this damage and I'm sure they will not object to that.

Lets get onto the technical things. They were on a break, in a place they had a right to expect privacy and they were illegally recorded. If Gardaí could use evidence like this we would have a completely different country. It works both ways.

If there is anyone here who can honestly say they have never laughed at or told an inappropriate joke I would very much like to hear from you because you clearly never went to a public school in Ireland.

stockyboie wrote: »

I dunno i really don't think that people in this country are going to accept them being snuck into some role behind a desk somewhere .

I think this is an important case for both the public of ireland and the gardai siochana themselves. Bascially if it ends up with nothing happening it will proove what many know and suspect about the state of policing in the republic of ireland i.e That the police are indeed a law onto themselves and operate with impunity with very little transparency if at all. Bascially that they are free to do and say whatever they think and nobody can stand up to them.

I think that this is what many people in the gardai know themselves although many may not actually state it and are happy to keep it that way.

If this case is not dealt with to the satsifaction of BOTH parties i think the ever widening divide that is growing between the gardai and the public will grow even further and this can't be good for anyone.

Trust between police forces and the public is the basic thread which holds society together in some way. If that breaks down then all hell can break loose. Its important that trust between the public and the gardai is always maintained. i don't think it helps either party to be suspicious of one another. For many its not what was said that was important and im sure most people accept this. I think whats important to people is that they know this kind of attitude is not prevelant in the gardai.

Are you whoopdedoo?

My name is URL wrote: »

What do you think should happen?

Can you imagine the reaction from the likes of Joe Higgins etc if it was just brushed aside?

The next time there was any hint of controversy within AGS they'd use this incident as a means of backing up whatever outlandish point they happen to be making.

So? Fear is no reason to crucify someone or breach liberties. That's how terrorism works.

As to what should be done, that will be for the commissioner to decide at the end of the day and will depend on wether they are deemed to have breached the code of discipline.

angelfire9 wrote: »

Interestingly you have a total of 2 posts to your name and both of them are critical of the Gardai
But anyway....

In relation to your first post the Gardai do not "interpret" the law
They deal with a crime, the file the reports and the DPP decides whether charges are brought or not
The Victim of a crime may REFUSE to co-operate with an investigation (happens particularly with cases of domestic violence where a crime is reported and investigated but further down the line the victim wants to drop the case
If the DPP decides that charges are to be brought the victim has NO say in the matter
Often in the case of domestic's the Gardai will drop the charges if the victim asks them to but they don't have to so you are mis-informed on that point

In relation to the second quote above, the Gardai are not "a law unto themselves"
A complaint was made and is being investigated by a Superintendent (on behalf of the Commissioner) AND the Ombudsman's office
IF they are found to have committed an offence they will be disciplined

It never fails to amaze me that people, who would scream & shout for civil rights and the presumption of innocence where civilians are accused of crimes, have no hesitation in condemning Gardai where allegations have been made but are as yet unproven

ok. Thanks for the reply. So the dpp decide arbitrarily wheither someone is prosecuted or not based on a person wanting to press charges.

Don't get me wrong im not blaming the gardai for anything. Im saying the system in place is totally backwards and they themselves have their hands cuffed.

Why does a national body have to deal with cases of say a stabbing that happens in a small town somewhere in ireland. I see this as a huge problem. Its like say there was a stabbing in new york city or london, if the victim pressed charges against an assilant then they would have to submit a file to the washington D.C department of justice or u.k justice high court? HUH
Surely the law should be set at national level and allow local courts to deal with these issues.

Jez i feel bad for gardai. No wonder they can't do their jobs and no wonder it takes so long to get prosecutions. Unreal...

I have plenty of friends who joke about sex and tell raunchy jokes, but I they don't joke about rape. That's just creepy. To me anyway. I certainly wouldn't be friends with anyone who jokes about rape.
Oh it's widespead and widely accepted, you say. Yes, so is prostitution, but I don't want my child to become mixed up in it either.
I do hold authority figures and leaders in the community to a higher standard. It goes hand in hand with their position. Authority and leadership is a both responsibility and a privilege. A leader is naturally given more respect than others, but at the same time they have greater responsibility. If they can't handle that respect and responsibility, then they will lose their position, because the people they have authority over will lose their respect for them. What is the Irish concept of how to carry out a position of authority in a responsible manner?

Corcioch wrote: »

The conversation was private at the time it took place, and it was between consenting adults.

That is the important legal fact.

Issues of morality etc are completely different and in fairness there has been no dispute there.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and the gardai obtained evidence like this, would the recording be accepted as evidence?

Genuine question.

Traumadoc wrote: »

Is there a charge of conspiracy to rape?

I'm sure gardai have used covert video recordings.

The mere suggestion that this could be a conspiracy to rape is ridiculous and an insult to real victims.

goldie fish wrote: »

An awful lot of strangers have suddenly appeared in this section to criticise the Gardai......

Point of information: what's a "stranger" in this context, and in the context of the relative openness of Boards generally?