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Dublin City brings in €500 firefighter call-out fee will only encourage DIY firemen..

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 606 ✭✭✭time lord


    I think the fee is wrong but as to your question when talking to my neighbour who runs the local retained fire station from an admin local authority level he has not found this bourne out in experience.

    They have been billing joe public for a long time now, not without its effects both positive and negative but he wouldn't concur with a mushrooming of "have a go" people due the the fees that are applied.


  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭heffomike54


    I think a blanket fee approach is wrong as it will dis-encourage people from calling the fire brigade when they should. However, I think if that call out for the fire brigade was a result as someone's gross stupidity and/or drunkenness, then a fee should be applied. Also Car insurance companies should contribute towards car accidents.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    €500 is a lot of cash to call out a fire appliance to someone that is struggling, surely this will encourage a lot of DIY fireman and could jeopardise the situation with a fire spreading by the time the real service arrives.

    With the price of fire extinguishers at as little as €10 people will be more enclined to stock up rather than take the chance and having to fork out €500

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/city-brings-in-euro500-firefighter-callout-fee-2947885.html


    I'm gonna do like they have done in the ambulance service and set up a private fire service - For €10,000 I can buy a 1994 Engine - it should do the job
    http://www.mascus.ie/Transportation/Used-Fire-trucks/Dennis-TF203-FIRE-ENGINE---FEUERWEHR/96jcoacb.html


    I'll do call outs at €400 a pop - the punter is saving €100 and after just 25 call outs, I'll be quids in.... Whayhey!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    What about fires in derelict properties or on waste or common ground ? The risk is that a perception will take hold that the person calling 999 will be liable for the charge , the implications are pretty worrying with fires possibly being allowed burn on without anyone prepared to call 999.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    scholar wrote: »
    I'm gonna do like they have done in the ambulance service and set up a private fire service - For €10,000 I can buy a 1994 Engine - it should do the job
    http://www.mascus.ie/Transportation/Used-Fire-trucks/Dennis-TF203-FIRE-ENGINE---FEUERWEHR/96jcoacb.html


    I'll do call outs at €400 a pop - the punter is saving €100 and after just 25 call outs, I'll be quids in.... Whayhey!

    You will then get the American scenario where several companies race to the sceen to get the business. :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    If Johnny McSkanger decides to joyride a random car and burn it in waste ground beside our estate which I spot and phone in, do I get landed with the bill?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 340 ✭✭ivabiggon


    scholar007 wrote: »
    I'm gonna do like they have done in the ambulance service and set up a private fire service - For €10,000 I can buy a 1994 Engine - it should do the job
    http://www.mascus.ie/Transportation/Used-Fire-trucks/Dennis-TF203-FIRE-ENGINE---FEUERWEHR/96jcoacb.html


    I'll do call outs at €400 a pop - the punter is saving €100 and after just 25 call outs, I'll be quids in.... Whayhey!

    it's not as simple as that i'm afraid.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭saa


    As long as there is a lower rate for low income individuals (i.e unwaged, pensioners etc.)

    and for everyone else an optional monthly payment scheme.

    I don't have a lot of money but if I had to call them for assistance I would pay what I could because I appreciate that I have to pay for services I use one way or another, if someone is not going to call the fire services then that is their responsibility, there are fee's for the rest of the country and when I lived down the country I never heard anyone in the community putting out a chimney fire themselves because of the charges.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭ratracer


    mikemac1 wrote: »
    If Johnny McSkanger decides to joyride a random car and burn it in waste ground beside our estate which I spot and phone in, do I get landed with the bill?
    No, the caller is never sent the bill, it's the property owner that gets it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,451 ✭✭✭Delancey


    ratracer wrote: »
    No, the caller is never sent the bill, it's the property owner that gets it.

    That needs to be made very clear via a publicity campaign or else the wrong perception will take root.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    ratracer wrote: »
    No, the caller is never sent the bill, it's the property owner that gets it.

    even if it's not his fault or for example is the fault of a tenant then he still pays ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,754 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    saa wrote: »
    As long as there is a lower rate for low income individuals (i.e unwaged, pensioners etc.)

    and for everyone else an optional monthly payment scheme.

    I don't have a lot of money but if I had to call them for assistance I would pay what I could because I appreciate that I have to pay for services I use one way or another, if someone is not going to call the fire services then that is their responsibility, there are fee's for the rest of the country and when I lived down the country I never heard anyone in the community putting out a chimney fire themselves because of the charges.

    What do we bother paying taxes for?
    Seriously if someone is unfortunate enough to have a house/car fire the last thing they would need would be a bill for 500 quid...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    Delancey wrote: »
    What about fires in derelict properties or on waste or common ground ? The risk is that a perception will take hold that the person calling 999 will be liable for the charge , the implications are pretty worrying with fires possibly being allowed burn on without anyone prepared to call 999.

    I was saying this to a friend. I called Dublin Fire Brigade for a car fire in the middle of the road. Didn't think twice about it. Now, if that same situation arose again I would not be dialing 999 as I am not forking out 500 Euro.. Am I right in saying that, if I dial I pay, who pays ? What if they start saying there not paying cause they didn't call them ?

    Takes the biscuit really, I though this is what our taxes paid for ? Like they are called the emergency services after all..

    I might be stupid but it's the first time I have ever heard of people been charge for calling out the fire service in an emergency, didn't know this was common practice outside of Dublin. Again what's the point in paying tax then ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    msg11 wrote: »
    I was saying this to a friend. I called Dublin Fire Brigade for a car fire in the middle of the road. Didn't think twice about it. Now, if that same situation arose again I would not be dialing 999 as I am not forking out 500 Euro.. Am I right in saying that, if I dial I pay, who pays ? What if they start saying there not paying cause they didn't call them ?

    No, they bill the property owner, not the person who makes the call. Please tell your friend this too so people aren't afraid to make a call. I'd hate to think somebody noticed a house fire and didn't ring it in because they thought they might have to foot the bill.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    A bit too much scaremongering about this. Don't most councils outside of Dublin already charge? And there are no DIY fire fighting incidents. The only problem is that people have a tendancy to report fires anonomously via the Gardaí to protect themselves from a bill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭dfbemt


    mfceiling wrote: »
    What do we bother paying taxes for?
    Seriously if someone is unfortunate enough to have a house/car fire the last thing they would need would be a bill for 500 quid...

    Exactly. We pay our taxes for services. Gradually we are being charged for those services - 1st the bins, now the fire SERVICE, next will be water and who knows what else after that.

    Just checked my home insurance policy and the excess is €500 so if I have to use the fire SERVICE my insurance won't cover it and I will have to pay out of my ever decreasing disposable income.

    Talking in work and most of us are against it. We would rather see a charge for a waste of scarcer ambulance services (999 ambulance called for drunks, cut fingers, etc) than for the fire service.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    dfbemt wrote: »
    Exactly. We pay our taxes for services. Gradually we are being charged for those services - 1st the bins, now the fire SERVICE, next will be water and who knows what else after that.

    Just checked my home insurance policy and the excess is €500 so if I have to use the fire SERVICE my insurance won't cover it and I will have to pay out of my ever decreasing disposable income.

    Talking in work and most of us are against it. We would rather see a charge for a waste of scarcer ambulance services (999 ambulance called for drunks, cut fingers, etc) than for the fire service.

    I don't understand your economics. A fire causes damage. You pay your excess and it goes towards the fire brigade instead of the damage but you are no worse off overall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭McWotever


    All house insurance policies have Fire Brigade charges included in them, including Dublin which has traditionally has been free. Charges are nothing new in this country except to ignorant Dubs who expect an excellent service but not to pay for it (I am a Dub).

    Car insurance companies or Motor Insurance Bureau will pay for the joyridden car, but the scrote who get convicted of multiple car robberies should just be made to pay for it.

    "Mrs my child has locked themselves in the bathroom again" will call a locksmith next time when she finds out it will be over €100 cheaper than calling the EMERGENCY SERVICES, and give the child a root up the hole.

    And "Mr I'll drink meself stupid call the ambulance and hope the nurses will give me sympaty" will still get the ambulance and hospital fees for free. I say free, but'll be part of my PAYE and yours too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭dfbemt


    McWotever wrote: »
    All house insurance policies have Fire Brigade charges included in them, including Dublin which has traditionally has been free. Charges are nothing new in this country except to ignorant Dubs who expect an excellent service but not to pay for it (I am a Dub).

    Sir

    You need to check your facts before you mouth off and accuse me of being ignorant. I can assure you that I am a Dub and I am not ignorant.

    There are other fire services in the country who do not charge at all and some who do not charge for particular services.

    It is usually the ill informed who make the most noise and you have proven that to be correct.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭msg11


    ectoraige wrote: »
    No, they bill the property owner, not the person who makes the call. Please tell your friend this too so people aren't afraid to make a call. I'd hate to think somebody noticed a house fire and didn't ring it in because they thought they might have to foot the bill.

    Well it's what alot of people think out there. What's too stop them saying they never ask for the fire service nor did they call them? Who pays then?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭McWotever


    dfbemt wrote: »
    Sir

    You need to check your facts before you mouth off and accuse me of being ignorant. I can assure you that I am a Dub and I am not ignorant.

    There are other fire services in the country who do not charge at all and some who do not charge for particular services.

    It is usually the ill informed who make the most noise and you have proven that to be correct.


    You obviously work in a completely different DFB than I do so. And quote me where i called YOU ignorant. Wind your neck in.

    There are generally two types of people in Dublin. People who are embarrassed and/or extremely grateful when they call the fire services. And those who just expect us to look after them following something happening due to there own stupidity.

    If your house fills up with smoke cos you let the pot boil dry, who should pay?

    If your house goes on fire due to a genuine electrical fault, who should pay?

    If there is a bonfire in the middle of a field that kids in your community lit, who should pay?

    If a skip goes on fire in your front garden, who should pay?

    If your chimney goes on fire, "but I just got it cleaned two weeks ago", who should pay?

    If you need to get cut our of your car, who should pay?

    I generally agree that we pay taxes for a reason, but not all of us do pay taxes, and in my opinion some people would dial 999 alot quicker than other people.

    DFBEMT, you know the situation aswell as I do. There ain't no money. And germany isn't going to print it, so it'll have to come from somewhere.

    My bit of advice. Don't let anything go on fire.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I pity the pensioner whose moggie is stuck 30ft up a tree and needs the fire service to retrieve it, she will be saying to herself, "is my cat worth €500". :p


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,398 ✭✭✭dfbemt


    McWotever wrote: »
    You obviously work in a completely different DFB than I do so. And quote me where i called YOU ignorant. Wind your neck in.

    I work in the same DFB for 18 years now where the service was provided free because people paid taxes and businesses paid rates. How does that differ from your DFB?

    You stated that
    Charges are nothing new in this country except to ignorant Dubs who expect an excellent service but not to pay for it

    I am a Dub. I expect the excellent (Fire) Service for free. As I meet all your criteria I must be, by your reckoning, ignorant ergo you implied that I am ignorant. Simple as. And you tell me to wind my neck in ? Bit rich bud

    We all know that this is a revenue generating exercise. €500 will not even cover the cost. It doesn't even cover the mess for 1 station for 1 week let alone wages, fuel, maintenance, pensions, etc. This is what our taxes and rates are supposed to do. Another charge for the ordinary Joe when the fat cats get fatter and our allegedly corrupt politicians still drawing huge pensions worth 3 times my pay.

    This charge will not win DFB any supporters. Other fire services do not charge despite what you may wrongly believe (I notice you haven't refuted that point). Will we have to pay to call the Guards next?


  • Registered Users Posts: 202 ✭✭McWotever


    This is getting like a baggin match, which I'm not getting involved in.

    Charges?

    http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/FireService/Charges.aspx

    http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Fire_Rescue_Services/Fire_Charges/

    http://www.meath.ie/LocalAuthorities/FireDepartment/FireBrigadeCharges/

    Can't find charges for Kildare, so maybe they are free

    Thats Dublin's immediate commuter belt.

    And full time brigades?

    http://limerickcity.ie/emergency/LimerickCityFireandRescueService/

    http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/FireService/FireBrigadeAttendenceCharges/

    I haven't gone through the 26 counties and their respective Urban District Councils. But you get the point. People in these counties pay taxes and business's also pay rates, so how do they differ from Dublin?

    As for your point regarding pensions etc. What has that got to do with the council? Face up to reality, there is no money! They have to get it somewhere, and to charge for services that will more than likely be covered by insurance is probably a good way to go. It's not as if were going to carry a credit card machine with us.

    If your so anti-charges, can you suggest, a realistic, alternative that doesn't reduce manning levels that will bring the service within budget?


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭savagecabbages


    dfbemt wrote: »
    I work in the same DFB for 18 years now where the service was provided free because people paid taxes and businesses paid rates. How does that differ from your DFB?

    You stated that



    I am a Dub. I expect the excellent (Fire) Service for free. As I meet all your criteria I must be, by your reckoning, ignorant ergo you implied that I am ignorant. Simple as. And you tell me to wind my neck in ? Bit rich bud

    We all know that this is a revenue generating exercise. €500 will not even cover the cost. It doesn't even cover the mess for 1 station for 1 week let alone wages, fuel, maintenance, pensions, etc. This is what our taxes and rates are supposed to do. Another charge for the ordinary Joe when the fat cats get fatter and our allegedly corrupt politicians still drawing huge pensions worth 3 times my pay.

    This charge will not win DFB any supporters. Other fire services do not charge despite what you may wrongly believe (I notice you haven't refuted that point). Will we have to pay to call the Guards next?

    Other fire services do charge.

    The other poster is annoyed at the reactions of people who are ignorant to the fact that elsewhere in the country people have to pay when the fire service is called out, and are giving out that a similar system might be introduced in dublin.
    What do we bother paying taxes for?
    I am also annoyed that people expect something for free when others have to pay for it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,897 ✭✭✭MagicSean


    I pity the pensioner whose moggie is stuck 30ft up a tree and needs the fire service to retrieve it, she will be saying to herself, "is my cat worth €500". :p

    No cat is. Let Darwin do his thing.
    dfbemt wrote: »
    This charge will not win DFB any supporters. Other fire services do not charge despite what you may wrongly believe (I notice you haven't refuted that point). Will we have to pay to call the Guards next?

    Other fire services do charge


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 340 ✭✭ivabiggon


    McWotever wrote: »
    This is getting like a baggin match, which I'm not getting involved in.

    Charges?

    http://www.wicklow.ie/Apps/WicklowBeta/FireService/Charges.aspx

    http://www.louthcoco.ie/en/Services/Fire_Rescue_Services/Fire_Charges/

    http://www.meath.ie/LocalAuthorities/FireDepartment/FireBrigadeCharges/

    Can't find charges for Kildare, so maybe they are free

    Thats Dublin's immediate commuter belt.

    And full time brigades?

    http://limerickcity.ie/emergency/LimerickCityFireandRescueService/

    http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/FireService/FireBrigadeAttendenceCharges/

    I haven't gone through the 26 counties and their respective Urban District Councils. But you get the point. People in these counties pay taxes and business's also pay rates, so how do they differ from Dublin?

    As for your point regarding pensions etc. What has that got to do with the council? Face up to reality, there is no money! They have to get it somewhere, and to charge for services that will more than likely be covered by insurance is probably a good way to go. It's not as if were going to carry a credit card machine with us.

    If your so anti-charges, can you suggest, a realistic, alternative that doesn't reduce manning levels that will bring the service within budget?

    simlpe mcwatever, get rid of the cfo's and acfo's, then heard them down the country some where to a retirement county like say....wexford...or something!!! where all firemen retire??? ;):p


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭angelfire9


    I'm sure I posted this here before but Clare County Council landed me a 2k bill for the attendance of 3 appliances when my house went up in flames 3 years ago
    It should be noted that NOT ALL INSURANCE POLICIES COVER FIRE BRIGADE CHARGES
    AND
    THOSE THAT DO COVER IT VARY THE AMOUNTS!

    edit: Found the thread
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055318203


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 902 ✭✭✭scholar007


    ivabiggon wrote: »
    it's not as simple as that i'm afraid.

    Why not? - I'll do all the fire service phecc equivalent courses. If firemen can operate ambulances in Dublin, what's to stop a lad setting up a fire service once all the paperwork is in order?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    If my car goes on fire I'm letting it burn . Problem solved :)


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