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zeroing nightmare with new swift!

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  • 20-08-2014 7:22pm
    #1
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭


    Hi all, went out today to zero my new swift and talk about a pain in the arse! :'( :@ feckin shots were all over the shop. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? Rifle is four years old, but was laid up on a shelf for two years before I bought it. I gave what I thought was a good clean but still she was shooting every which way. The scope is sound as it was on my hmr for the last three years without a hitch, so I'm wondering if I didn't clean the barrel enough. It looks spotless but could there be a build up of crud in the rifling? It's the first second hand rifle I've ever bought and as I've kept my others spotless from new I feel like I'm out of my depth a little. Sorry if this sounds like an amateur problem, I've been shooting a long time and feel like a total novice right now. If anyone can give me some advice I'd be REALLY grateful!
    Please help :$.....
    BTW the wildcat evolution mod works really well anyway.
    LR


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    #2
    The Aussie
    Registered Users Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    You say the Scope is sound, I take it you shifted it over, what about the mounts, I would look at them first, is it mounted properly and tight enough? Just a thought.

    Other than that, you might have cleaned the barrel to well, some barrels enjoy being a bit dirtier than others.


    Also what twist is on the Barrel? And what ammo were you pushing out of it?


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    #3
    cookimonster
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭cookimonster


    The Aussie wrote: »
    You say the Scope is sound, I take it you shifted it over, what about the mounts, I would look at them first, is it mounted properly and tight enough? Just a thought

    Totally agree with above, I've come across two rifles recently with problems with the mounts resulting in inconsistent groups, after that check stock to action / barrel fit. Lastly check the bore on the mod and ensure it lines up through to the rifle bore.


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    #4
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    The Aussie wrote: »
    You say the Scope is sound, I take it you shifted it over, what about the mounts, I would look at them first, is it mounted properly and tight enough? Just a thought.

    Other than that, you might have cleaned the barrel to well, some barrels enjoy being a bit dirtier than others.


    Also what twist is on the Barrel? And what ammo were you pushing out of it?

    Brand new Warne mounts on the scope and I'm sure it's on properly. I was wondering about the barrel but after nearly a full box of ammunition gone through it the shots should have tightened up if it liked a bit of dirt.
    I'm using 40 grain federal with a 1/14 twist as it's the only ammunition I can get until next month.


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    #5
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Common causes include:
    1. Scope - Self explanatory really. A faulty scope will "jump" with each shot, not track, etc.
    2. Mounts - If they are not tight enough, misaligned, etc. they can cause issues with zeroing.
    3. Ammo - Depending on twist rate and what your gun likes poor quality or just a "bad fit" ammo will cause zeroing issues. Solution is to try various brands/weights and see which works.
    4. Suppressor - If the threading of the rifle is not done properly, or on the rare occasion the threading of the Mod is not correct, you will get a misaligned suppressor causing the ammo to clip the mod on leaving. This clipping can be so subtle you might not see it. A way to test is line the inside of the muzzle of the mod with tip-ex or something similar and when you fire a round check to see if there is mark or void in the tip-ex (or whatever you've used). If so you can try and bore out the mod or get the rifle re-threaded.
    5. Stock - If the stock is touching the barreled action it can interfere with the barrel harmonics.
    6. Crown - If the crown is damaged it will cause widening of the groups. It's a small area and unless you know what you're looking for you might not see a problem. Gunsmith can check and re-crown if necessary.


    There are some things you can do to check the above.
    1. Scope - If you had it on another rifle and it worked then grand, however a hmr is a different animal to a Swift so try the scope on another centrefire rifle. A mate's. Also a box test might be useful when on the other rifle.
    2. Mounts - Check that the screws are tight and that the mounts are not shifting on the receiver/rail. Also check the scope is held in the mounts and not slipping in the rings.
    3. Ammo - Try different brands, and different weights of ammo. See which performs the best.
    4. Suppressor - Shoot the rifle with the mod off and see if the problem persists. If so the mod is the issue. If not then it's not the mod. Or not ONLY the mod. Bring to gunsmith to check/repair.
    5. Stock - Slide a piece of folded paper up along the top of stock/bottom of barrel and it should be able to get to the front of the receiver/action without obstruction. If it sticks at any point then mark the stock and look at sanding the stock. If it's composite the same applies.
    6. Crown - Bring to gunsmith.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #6
    philmire
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭philmire


    If it has a pickaini rail check to see if its tight mine came loose and couldn't figure out what was wring


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    #7
    hiddenmongoose
    Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭hiddenmongoose


    I had a swift for about 12 years great round.Check your ammo is decent stuff,mine loved hornady 55gr and 52 gr.It wouldnt group 60 gr to save your life.Check your suppressor,if its getting very hot(very easy with a swift and a few quick rounds) the mirage coming up off it can distort your sight image and cause you to group poorly(like a bad dose of parallax ) so try leaving it longer beween shots or zero without it and see will it group


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    #8
    FISMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    At what distance were you zeroing?

    What kind of rest were you using: bag, bench, sticks, bipod, vise...?

    What was the weather like.

    What was the group measurement for five shots?


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    #9
    Alucan
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭Alucan


    I had the same problem with a 308 and it turned out to be the ammo. I went out the day before I was doing the Hcap range test to zero the scope with a box of hornady ballistic tips and was getting a 6 inch difference in poi. I took off the scope and remounted it made no difference so in desperation started ringing around looking for different ammo. I got my hands on a box of federal and had the rifle zeroed in about 10 minutes. So even with top of the range ammo your rifle may not like them.


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    #10
    Ghost.
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Ghost.


    That really is a pain. Im sure it will be somthing simple that will fix it. If you have checked all the usual suspects the other lads have mentioned above and still have no joy you might want to get the bore checked. If the rifle is only 4 years old and has only been shooting for two of the, with the price of swift ammo its unlikely that it would be shot out. But could you have been misinformed about it, could it be older and have done a lot more than you think?
    Also check that the action is screwed tight into the stock so there isnt any movement. If the action was loose in the stock it could put you off too.


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    #11
    DEMOLISHER
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭DEMOLISHER


    I had a ruger one wit same problem in that I hadn't enough elevation in scope , ended up the mounts shop put on we're wrong one is ment to be higher than other on ruger swift


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    #12
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    FISMA wrote: »
    What was the group measurement for five shots?

    How bad were the groups?


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    #13
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Vegeta wrote: »
    How bad were the groups?

    200 yards. Groups weren't even groups! Nearest holes were ten inches apart ( I was shooting into a ten foot bank of bog with an empty mountain behind it so no worries about the backstop) so I couldn't figure it out. I was using 40 grain federal vital shok, it's all i can get at the moment. I left some solvent in it last night and I couldn't believe the mountain of muck that came out of it this morning. All the screws were tight but when I ran a piece of paper under the barrel it stuck about three inches from the action. I sanded it down a bit so it's free floating now. I'm going to give it another go later if the wind drops, hopefully those couple of little jobs might do it. All I can do now is to wait and try and get some different ammunition, maybe 50 or 55 grain.


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    #14
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Start shorter. You can dial up to 200 but start at 100 yards.

    Also try this.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #15
    Ghost.
    Registered Users Posts: 254 ✭✭Ghost.


    I was wondering did you get the rifle sorted? Did them jobs you did on it make any difference?


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    #16
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Any word lad?
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #17
    thomasc4329
    Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭thomasc4329


    swift is a hot round could it be shot out?


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    #18
    FISMA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭FISMA


    thomasc4329 wrote: »
    swift is a hot round could it be shot out?

    How many rounds have you through it?

    They were known to be a barrel burner years ago, but no so much in modern barrels.


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    #19
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Hi lads,sorry about the delay in replying. I've been flat out working for the last week for a change thank heavens. By the looks of the weather I won't be re-zeroing until the weekend. I hope the few jobs I did will work. @ FISMA, the previous owner only had it for a while and I know for sure he only put about 150 rounds through it. I've only put another dozen or so. I did find out yesterday however, that he had been putting oil in the barrel to clean it instead of solvent..... Looks like that's the reason for the mountain of black gunk that I got out of it the other day.
    BTW, he had it from new.


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    #20
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Longranger wrote: »
    ......... that he had been putting oil in the barrel to clean it instead of solvent..... Looks like that's the reason for the mountain of black gunk that I got out of it the other day.

    That would lead to a build up of copper, but not to a massive extent if he only fired 150 through it. However a good clean is always the way to go.

    I'd leave a good quality solvent in the barrel with regular brushing to agitate the solvent. Patch it out and start again until you get wet, and clean patches. If you get even a hint of colour on the patch then start again. IOW have the rifle as clean as new.

    Between the cleaning, the sanding, and checking the screws, etc.you have addressed everything you can. Let us know how you get on. If all else fails, and it's not a long trip for you you're welcome to come to the Midlands and i'll meet ya, sign ya in, and let ya test it there with ammo, scopes, etc. IOW controlled environment, set distance, etc. Plus other lads there will also be able to help. More eyes that might see something one of us miss.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



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    #21
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Cass wrote: »
    That would lead to a build up of copper, but not to a massive extent if he only fired 150 through it. However a good clean is always the way to go.

    I'd leave a good quality solvent in the barrel with regular brushing to agitate the solvent. Patch it out and start again until you get wet, and clean patches. If you get even a hint of colour on the patch then start again. IOW have the rifle as clean as new.

    Between the cleaning, the sanding, and checking the screws, etc.you have addressed everything you can. Let us know how you get on. If all else fails, and it's not a long trip for you you're welcome to come to the Midlands and i'll meet ya, sign ya in, and let ya test it there with ammo, scopes, etc. IOW controlled environment, set distance, etc. Plus other lads there will also be able to help. More eyes that might see something one of us miss.

    Thanks Cass, I hope it won't come to that, but I have been thinking about joining the Midlands range for a couple of years. Just waiting for the funds. It's a long way from westport. I really appreciate the advice that you and the rest of the boards crew are giving me,and if any of ye fancy some rabbit (Mi6 level secrecy required) or duck ye are welcome to pm me and I'll sort something out. I'll see how things go first good weather we have and get back ASAP
    Thanks all
    LR


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    #22
    4200fps
    Registered Users Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭4200fps


    Longranger wrote: »
    Hi all, went out today to zero my new swift and talk about a pain in the arse! :'( :@ feckin shots were all over the shop. Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem? Rifle is four years old, but was laid up on a shelf for two years before I bought it. I gave what I thought was a good clean but still she was shooting every which way. The scope is sound as it was on my hmr for the last three years without a hitch, so I'm wondering if I didn't clean the barrel enough. It looks spotless but could there be a build up of crud in the rifling? It's the first second hand rifle I've ever bought and as I've kept my others spotless from new I feel like I'm out of my depth a little. Sorry if this sounds like an amateur problem, I've been shooting a long time and feel like a total novice right now. If anyone can give me some advice I'd be REALLY grateful!
    Please help :$.....
    BTW the wildcat evolution mod works really well anyway.
    LR
    Hows things. Hope you didnt buy someone elses problem. If its a timber stock model the stock could be warping around the barrel sending fibrations putting round off, she could be caked with copper fouling as there a very fast load. 40 grain is pretty fast. Keep wind directly on your back so you have zero wind values. Dont be firing too soon between the shots as them barrels heat up pretty fast on them calibers. I'd recommend a 55 grain load no heavier, its a very stable load. It will take about ten shots after removing the copper fouling completely without dialing any values to get a group, you need some copper in the barrel. Shoot with two eyes open helps to avoid flinching not saying you flinch but just incase its good habit to get into. Start at 50 yards then to 100yards. If your scope values are in metric do it in meters as 100 meters so the values will be precise. If imperial do it in yards. A 10mph cross wind would drift your round in or near 15mm of your target at 100 meters. If I were you regardless if scope rings seem tight or not strip it all down again and remount again as there might be a flaw you will never find


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    #23
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Hi all, sorry for the lateness of the reply, I've been busy working for a change! Just want to say thanks to ye all for the tips and information on helping me set up my latest piece of kit. She's shooting like a dream, ragged holes at 100 yards and one inch groups at 200( if I could hold her a bit steadier I think the groups would be even tighter) Had a few foxes with her and by christ she messes them up some :D I changed to hornady 55 grain and couldn't believe the results, the 40 grain shoots ok but she LOVES the 55s. Again, cheers to all and good luck with the winter shooting.
    LR


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    #24
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Sorry if I missed it above but what was the cure to your issue? A good scrub or something set-up related?


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    #25
    Longranger
    Registered Users Posts: 961 ✭✭✭Longranger


    Vegeta wrote: »
    Sorry if I missed it above but what was the cure to your issue? A good scrub or something set-up related?

    Clean up was a MASSIVE job, plus there was a tiny bit of movement on one the legs on my bipod. I didn't notice it until I took it off and used the bags. I also found the ammo change a big help.


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