Spear Gun fishing in Ireland

nathan184 · 17-10-2012 7:08pm

scoopdog wrote: »

As with diving it's frowned upon if you dive and use any mechanical means to hunt fish but it's not illegal. If you can catch a fish or lobster with your bare hands while diving well then it's yours.

I agree with most of what you're saying but I'm 95% sure it is illegal to take shellfish while on scuba because of the act Charlie Haughey introduced in 1966 or 1967(shell fish bye-law no.533)

I can't find the text for the bye-law though so if anyone finds it please link it here.

I found this discussion about the topic from 1966:
http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0223/D.0223.196606230046.html

" Mr. Dillon asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries why he considered it desirable to make an order prohibiting skin divers from fishing for shellfish"

richiek67 · 18-10-2012 11:55am

Rich coming from that gangster Charlie...!!!

scoopdog · 18-10-2012 6:08pm

richiek67 wrote: »

Yr right. Its not illegal as such but I remember diving for some 10 years in my 30's and it was always frowned upon to go taking Lobsters, though I had the pleasure of seeing some huge ones in the west while looking around the rocks....Yes, there's always some who'd take them but then I was only in it to marvel at the undersea world and to appreciate it, not to take from it...Though to be honest I wouldn't have a problem with spear fishing.

absolutely and i'm getting more into speasr fishing now it's so hard you have to be very fit and patient, thats me stuffed LOL , got a spear gun over the summer and had a few cracks with it in sandycove.

As with diving i'd never take a thing, i was on the tayleur a few weeks ago and came across some plates and left them , there not mine to take, fish - shell fish or anything really. A few of my dive buddies found some cracking guns at a dive sight from WW2 in donegal a while back and brought them up, thats there choice.

When diving became popular in the seventies as you know the tayleur was completely ransacked , all thats left now are the headstones as there too heavy to get up , so it does happen

for me i just leave what i see and just like watching

SD

yankinlk · 19-10-2012 7:14am

scoopdog wrote: »

absolutely and i'm getting more into speasr fishing now it's so hard you have to be very fit and patient, thats me stuffed

SD

I know what you mean. I have been out a handful of times the last few years and I ain't a crack shot for sure! If people knew what it takes to bag a fish they would be surprised. The fitness, the patience, the visibility, the weather, the location and the fish all have to be just right. And then the amount of fish a spearo let's swim away as he waits for the right type and size. It taught me that it is literally the most selective type of fishing possible.

richiek67 · 19-10-2012 12:19pm

I guess anything to get away from the dreary life above water... Can you imagine the things that might go on in our huge oceans...the mind boggles ... I used to love diving around the submerged stacks off Kilkee. Once did a dive of the cliff when the wind was right and it was like swimming in an Aquarium ...Diving in the west can be pretty great. Actually I remember diving of 'middle rock' in Kilkee and while doing a decompression stop at about 20m I was face to face with a huge Pollock. He was just as interested in me as I was in him. He came up to me and we both 'eye balled' each other. If I went to go closer he'd move off a little...it was extraordinary...I'll always remember it. I'd say the fish was about a meter long! Needless to say my decompression stop with my buddy went on for about 10 minutes while we watched each other with the fish..quite funny really ... How you could go and kill something like that , there and then would be traumatic ...It was enchanting to experience such a thing. He eventually got bored and went off. We were almost out of air too! Up to 10m....!

Freedive Ireland · 19-10-2012 5:19pm

Most spearos might leave off a 1m pollock as a specimen to allow those genes to procreate. Fish gotta swim humans gotta eat. It just makes a lot more sense than industrialised fishing.

yankinlk · 19-10-2012 5:25pm

1m pollock? Any chance it was a ling?

scoopdog · 19-10-2012 6:52pm

Wow a 1Mtr pollock,

had my first outing to Killkee , May just gone i've only really got into diving seriously in Ireland within the last few years and was blown away with Middle rock, had 4 or 5 cracking dives and a good few Guinness

as you do,,,,, amazing

richiek67 · 21-10-2012 10:26pm

yankinlk wrote: »

1m pollock? Any chance it was a ling?

Trust me, I know my fish!! Besides, its way out of character for Ling to sit still. They are shy fish, like to hang around the bottom. Ive seen a lot of Ling during my dives and they are long and thin types of fish. Even compared to Conger they are meek and mild in comparison and believe you me I've seen horse size conger.
Yes middle rock is a great dive. Be warned though its easy to miss your depth there. I remember going down , down , down, and missing the rock , 25, 30 , 35, hit 42m . then 10 m away we found it and had to head up to 30m pretty quickly. Plenty of cuckoo wrasse there too!
Anyone like to hear a story of a few congers??

scoopdog · 22-10-2012 8:34pm

richiek67 wrote: »

Yes middle rock is a great dive. Be warned though its easy to miss your depth there. I remember going down , down , down, and missing the rock , 25, 30 , 35, hit 42m . then 10 m away we found it and had to head up to 30m pretty quickly. Plenty of cuckoo wrasse there too!
Anyone like to hear a story of a few congers??

Yeah was diving with a very experienced diver on this rock and was well aware of the trickiness of the dive, we hit the rock high tide slack and vis was 15-20 mtr so a cracker of a dive. One of my most memorable , was in mauritius 2 weeks ago and the diving there was not as good, west coast ireland diving is such a treasure

Emmett6661 · 11-11-2013 4:34am

Not sure if this was ever sorted, dont want to read through the whole discussion, but yes, spearing in Ireland is completely legal in saltwater, and illegal in freshwater; band guns require no license, I'm not sure about pneumatics. Spearing while scuba diving is also illegal in Ireland. Regulations exist in saltwater, laws protect sea bass by limiting the sizes you may spear and also the times of year that they can be taken, as well as the number you are allowed to take (no more than 2 within 24 hours). Salmon and trout are completely protected, size restrictions exist on brown and spider crabs, and also on scallops and other shellfish. You may not take lobster, and as well as that you may not shoot crustaceans, they can be lassoed or taken by hand with all restrictions accounted for. With regards to the moral aspect that seems to come up a lot. Spearfishing is a highly selective form of fishing and any self respecting spearo knows what not to take and will not take it..besides the regulations you generally wouldnt take wrasse as they are slow growing and fairly stupid when it comes to predator evasion...also their meats not great. You wouldnt shoot any sharks or ray...not great to eat either. You only take what youll eat, youd hardly spear for commercial reasons. I spear, and Im a marine biologist, as someone who has put quite a bit of time into studying the environment and working in conservation I can safely say when guidelines and etiquette are followed spearing is not harmful to fish stocks...id generally take pollock or flatfish of reasonable size..nothing monstrous, and not many at that. If youre coming back with numbers capable of damaging stocks you have a superpower because its not easy! The big pictures far more bleak..when you consider bottom trawling and dredging and other non selective forms of fishing which take far more than necessary, as well as inflict major damage to habitats, and take bycatch, its quite funny to see the reaction people have to a guy with a spear selectively catching only what he will eat...

CJhaughey · 30-11-2013 8:18pm

Emmett6661 wrote: »

Not sure if this was ever sorted, dont want to read through the whole discussion, but yes, spearing in Ireland is completely legal in saltwater, and illegal in freshwater; band guns require no license, I'm not sure about pneumatics. Spearing while scuba diving is also illegal in Ireland. Regulations exist in saltwater, laws protect sea bass by limiting the sizes you may spear and also the times of year that they can be taken, as well as the number you are allowed to take (no more than 2 within 24 hours). Salmon and trout are completely protected, size restrictions exist on brown and spider crabs, and also on scallops and other shellfish. You may not take lobster, and as well as that you may not shoot crustaceans, they can be lassoed or taken by hand with all restrictions accounted for. With regards to the moral aspect that seems to come up a lot. Spearfishing is a highly selective form of fishing and any self respecting spearo knows what not to take and will not take it..besides the regulations you generally wouldnt take wrasse as they are slow growing and fairly stupid when it comes to predator evasion...also their meats not great. You wouldnt shoot any sharks or ray...not great to eat either. You only take what youll eat, youd hardly spear for commercial reasons. I spear, and Im a marine biologist, as someone who has put quite a bit of time into studying the environment and working in conservation I can safely say when guidelines and etiquette are followed spearing is not harmful to fish stocks...id generally take pollock or flatfish of reasonable size..nothing monstrous, and not many at that. If youre coming back with numbers capable of damaging stocks you have a superpower because its not easy! The big pictures far more bleak..when you consider bottom trawling and dredging and other non selective forms of fishing which take far more than necessary, as well as inflict major damage to habitats, and take bycatch, its quite funny to see the reaction people have to a guy with a spear selectively catching only what he will eat...

Some of your points are well made but again some are wrong.
Yes Salmonids cannot be speared at all.
All guns require a license, a Firearms license, Not just Pneumatic but Rubber powered as well.
Its not my opinion its actually law according the the Dept of Justice , Point #7
You can spear on Scuba, no law prevents you using a speargun while using breathing apparatus.
What is illegal to do is use BA to take shellfish. Bylaw 533, 1966
You can spear a lobster if you want, or a crab for that matter its not illegal.

Emmett6661 · 30-11-2013 11:32pm

CJhaughey wrote: »

Some of your points are well made but again some are wrong.
Yes Salmonids cannot be speared at all.
All guns require a license, a Firearms license, Not just Pneumatic but Rubber powered as well.
Its not my opinion its actually law according the the Dept of Justice , Point #7
You can spear on Scuba, no law prevents you using a speargun while using breathing apparatus.
What is illegal to do is use BA to take shellfish. Bylaw 533, 1966
You can spear a lobster if you want, or a crab for that matter its not illegal.

All of my points are correct and backed with the exception of the law about fishing with scuba gear, and I'm not saying that to be a know it all, I'm saying it as I know it to be fact. As a spearo that is a member of clubs and has read up on my legislation, all of which bar the point about spearing with scuba tanks, can be found right here: http://spearfishing.ie/irish-spearfishing-regulations/
Re the latter law about breathing apparatus, that is something which we were taught when I learned to scuba. Even if its not illegal, it is frowned upon practice. The practice of collecting shellfish with scuba gear is also illegal. As regards to the part about band guns being illegal, I carry mine all over the country on trains and buses, I have walked through cities with it passed gardai, I have brought it through the airport when traveling, I ordered it and had it delivered to my doorstep, and as well as that, most local dive shops sell them without any mention of license, trust me theyre perfectly legal to own and a license does not exist for them.

CJhaughey · 01-12-2013 12:58pm

Emmett6661 wrote: »

All of my points are correct and backed with the exception of the law about fishing with scuba gear, and I'm not saying that to be a know it all, I'm saying it as I know it to be fact. As a spearo that is a member of clubs and has read up on my legislation, all of which bar the point about spearing with scuba tanks, can be found right here: http://spearfishing.ie/irish-spearfishing-regulations/
Re the latter law about breathing apparatus, that is something which we were taught when I learned to scuba. Even if its not illegal, it is frowned upon practice. The practice of collecting shellfish with scuba gear is also illegal. As regards to the part about band guns being illegal, I carry mine all over the country on trains and buses, I have walked through cities with it passed gardai, I have brought it through the airport when traveling, I ordered it and had it delivered to my doorstep, and as well as that, most local dive shops sell them without any mention of license, trust me theyre perfectly legal to own and a license does not exist for them.

Please be very careful what you advise.
I am quoting from Statutory instruments and Bylaws you are quoting from a privately owned website.
That website is not correct.
I would like to trust you but I work in this field and deal with this legislation on a daily basis.

You see that Dept of Justice website? They are responsible for licensing firearms, the law states that over 1 Joule of force puts them in the category of firearms, whether or not they are Pneumatic or band powered is immaterial.

johnnyryan22 · 04-12-2013 1:24am

I've had verbal confirmation from the firearms officer in Phoenix park that banded guns are in fact not required to be licenced. He also informed me to call him directly if I ever get hassle from gardai.

CJhaughey · 04-12-2013 10:53pm

johnnyryan22 wrote: »

I've had verbal confirmation from the firearms officer in Phoenix park that banded guns are in fact not required to be licenced. He also informed me to call him directly if I ever get hassle from gardai.

Thats great news, if he could give you it in writing that would be better again.

KpsCowley · 02-09-2015 10:48pm

Just to update this discussion.

Here is Shellfish Byelaw No.533 of 1966 - http://diving.ie/site/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Shellfish-Byelaw-No.-533-of-1966.pdf

Also from: http://diving.ie/news/legal-responsibilities/

quoted below from url above.

''
The skin-diving for shellfish bye-law no. 533 of 1966 was the subject of a written question and answer in Dáil Éireann on 18 February 2014 (see http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/ dail2014021800068). The result of this exchange is below:

Q) 471. Deputy Seán Kyne asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his interpretation of by-law 533 of the 1966 Fisheries Act as it relates to snorkelling for shellfish when snorkelling is permitted; the conditions or restrictions that apply; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

A) Minister of State at the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Fergus O’Dowd): The enforcement of bye law 533 of 1966 is exercised by Inland Fisheries Ireland (IFI). I am advised by IFI that, on an operational basis, the bye-law is construed as prohibiting snorkelling to target shellfish. Interpretation of the bye law would be a matter for the Courts.
''

I would think that 'Interpretation of the bye law would be a matter for the Courts' means that these was never any cases brought to court. Otherwise there would be a case precedent? Correct me if I am wrong here.

locum-motion · 04-09-2015 12:39am

KpsCowley wrote: »

...
I would think that 'Interpretation of the bye law would be a matter for the Courts' means that these was never any cases brought to court. Otherwise there would be a case precedent? Correct me if I am wrong here.

Where does it say that there hasn't been cases brought? (Ans: It doesn't)

The Dail is a Legislature. It makes laws. In a Dail exchange between a Minister and a TD, they will discuss the law, what it says, and if they're thinking of amending it, what it will say after it has been amended. In all cases, the interpretation of the law is a matter for the courts. But that interpretation does not change the wording of the law. Nor does a precedent. The law still says what it said the day that it was signed by the Prez. So, even after a court has interpreted it, and a precedent has been set, the Minister will still say "Interpretation of the bye law would be a matter for the Courts"

KpsCowley · 04-09-2015 12:41pm

locum-motion, thank you for setting me straight on that.

Is there any way of finding out about past court cases regarding this by law?

Also, there is no need to be rude:

Where does it say that there hasn't been cases brought? (Ans: It doesn't)

Spear Gun fishing in Ireland

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