Buying bitcoins

zulutango · 11-03-2017 2:38am

I'm really amazed there drop hasn't been greater. Maybe it'll slowly fall over the next while but that doesn't really make sense.

cnocbui · 12-03-2017 5:30pm

And up she goes again.

I think the ETF news attracted a lot of attention and with it being pointed out that bitcoin has outperformed every currency and asset class in the last 12 months, a lot of people with deep pockets have taken notice and want in. Limited supply is doing the rest.

makeorbrake · 12-03-2017 7:05pm

That drop has turned out to be simply a blip. :-)

Bitcoin has faced issues in the past and overcome them. If it can do the same again - and the right direction/approach is taken, then it's credibility will grudgingly continue to grow - year on year. My only fear would be that it takes a wrong turn and another crypto tramples on it by way of some form of competitive advantage.

Grumpypants · 13-03-2017 5:58pm

I've recently dipped into Bitcoin, I used Coinbase to get started but when I go to buy or sell the price difference is pretty big. For example looking at buying/selling €100 worth, I can buy at €1,168.60 (with a 4.75 fee) and sell at €1,156.65 (with a 1.72 fee). Which seems pretty pricey.

Is there better options? I read back through the thread and Kraken was mentioned as the cheapest for trading, but that post was 18+ months ago. Is that still the case? Am I better off trading there and transferring to coinbase as my "bank".

Capt'n Midnight · 13-03-2017 9:01pm

Interesting.
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/13/hold_em_dont_fold_em_how_to_bite_bitcoin_pools/

If you bribe people in another mining pool you can undermine it and yours becomes more valuable.

cnocbui · 13-03-2017 9:21pm

Grumpypants wrote: »

I've recently dipped into Bitcoin, I used Coinbase to get started but when I go to buy or sell the price difference is pretty big. For example looking at buying/selling €100 worth, I can buy at €1,168.60 (with a 4.75 fee) and sell at €1,156.65 (with a 1.72 fee). Which seems pretty pricey.

Is there better options? I read back through the thread and Kraken was mentioned as the cheapest for trading, but that post was 18+ months ago. Is that still the case? Am I better off trading there and transferring to coinbase as my "bank".

You could try Belgiacoin.

Xenji · 14-03-2017 2:20am

I need to buy a very small amount of Bitcoins, less than 20 Euros, this is just a single payment and not looking for any investment, what would be the best way to go around doing this and what would be the best site to use, new to this and any help would be much appreciated.

makeorbrake · 14-03-2017 4:19am

Xenji wrote: »

I need to buy a very small amount of Bitcoins, less than 20 Euros, this is just a single payment and not looking for any investment, what would be the best way to go around doing this and what would be the best site to use, new to this and any help would be much appreciated.

Find yourself an exchange. http://bittybot.co/eu/

There's also an irish exchange - bitcove.ie ...or you could try localbitcoins.com
Unfortunately, due to Anti Money Laundering and Know your customer regulations, you'll have to go through the account opening process - just like you would when opening a bank account.

Xenji · 14-03-2017 4:36am

makeorbrake wrote: »

Find yourself an exchange. http://bittybot.co/eu/

There's also an irish exchange - bitcove.ie ...or you could try localbitcoins.com
Unfortunately, due to Anti Money Laundering and Know your customer regulations, you'll have to go through the account opening process - just like you would when opening a bank account.

Cheers, will have a look through it in the morning.

pro_gnostic_8 · 14-03-2017 8:35am

cnocbui wrote: »

And up she goes again.

It makes one wonder what the current price would have been if the ETF had been approved!
Many Bitcoin enthusiasts are putting a positive spin on the SEC decision -- some have even welcomed the rejection. But, in truth, the decision was a disappointment and a setback. Hundreds of millions of dollars (maybe billions) would have poured into the ecosystem from hedge funds, pension funds, Wall Street, Mom and Pop investors across middle-America who can't be arsed with cold storage wallets etc, etc.

What might have been.

DeSelby83 · 14-03-2017 8:40am

Is 'dollar cost averaging' a viable way to invest in bitcoin. I see people talking about putting away €10 a week every week and then you take the dips and the highs equally. Would this mean an high increase in fees for every transaction or are the fees scalable? Would it make more sense to buy €40 once a month?

pro_gnostic_8 · 14-03-2017 8:41am

Xenji wrote: »

I need to buy a very small amount of Bitcoins, less than 20 Euros,

For a once-off "buy" and for low amount such as this, and saving you the hassle of attendant KYC and AML obligations you might consider the Bitcoin ATM on 7 Abbey Street Upper.
If you are resident in Dublin, that is, of course.

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 9:06am

Xenji wrote: »

I need to buy a very small amount of Bitcoins, less than 20 Euros, this is just a single payment and not looking for any investment, what would be the best way to go around doing this and what would be the best site to use, new to this and any help would be much appreciated.

Belgiacoin, none of the crap for a small amount.

pro_gnostic_8 · 14-03-2017 9:15am

cnocbui wrote: »

Belgiacoin, none of the crap for a small amount.

Just now had a look at Belgiacoin for the first time, and I do agree it would be the way to go for a small amount BUY.
Painless, no registration needed, no KYC etc, .......... and it appears that their prices are as close to Spot as you can get.

jobless · 14-03-2017 12:52pm

sorry if its a bit off topic, but id like to maybe put 100-150 away in bitcoin per month.... as a complete novice whats the best/safest way to do this?...
I dont really understand how wallets work.... are online wallets safe or should i always have a personal one on my machine (seems complicated to set up)

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 1:11pm

Don't let anyone else store your coins - such as an exchange. Personally, I think having a suitably secured wallet on your computer is perfectly safe. I use Electrum, because downloading the whole blockchain at 7 Mbps is a bit much. I found it easy to set up and use.

Your wallet stores your encryption keys that are required to authorise transactions on your coins, which are actually stored in the blockchain.

Once you have a wallet set up, you use it to generate an 'address' for your bitcoins to be sent to, when purchasing. When sending bitcoins to someone else, they give you their receiving address and you use that as the destination to send the coins to. These days, there is an additional complication in that it's a good idea to check before sending what the current fee is you need to pay in order for your send transaction to be processed in a reasonable time frame. There are web sites where you can find that out. Your wallet app includes all you need for sending and receiving coins.

jobless · 14-03-2017 2:30pm

cnocbui wrote: »

Don't let anyone else store your coins - such as an exchange. Personally, I think having a suitably secured wallet on your computer is perfectly safe. I use Electrum, because downloading the whole blockchain at 7 Mbps is a bit much. I found it easy to set up and use.

Your wallet stores your encryption keys that are required to authorise transactions on your coins, which are actually stored in the blockchain.

Once you have a wallet set up, you use it to generate an 'address' for your bitcoins to be sent to, when purchasing. When sending bitcoins to someone else, they give you their receiving address and you use that as the destination to send the coins to. These days, there is an additional complication in that it's a good idea to check before sending what the current fee is you need to pay in order for your send transaction to be processed in a reasonable time frame. There are web sites where you can find that out. Your wallet app includes all you need for sending and receiving coins.

hey thanks for replying.... so you have a wallet on your laptop... what happens if you lose the laptop though?.... do you back it up somehow?...
again sorry if its off topic

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 3:14pm

jobless wrote: »

hey thanks for replying.... so you have a wallet on your laptop... what happens if you lose the laptop though?.... do you back it up somehow?...
again sorry if its off topic

I do have a backup, but also, when you create the Etherium wallet, it gives you a long list of unique words to write down on paper - a wallet regeneration key. If you keep that list safe, you can re-generate your wallet on another new machine, even if you don't have a backup.

Wallet is a bit of a misnomer, I think, because it doesn't contain your coins. It's more of a complicated key. It's more like your coins are kept in a safety deposit box in a bank (the bitcoin miners) and your wallet is a key with a serial number. Your laptop and wallet don't contain the coins, they are still safe in the bank. So long as you have the serial number of the key to your safety deposit box; if you lose the key, you can get another one cut by providing the serial number. So can anyone else, which is why you keep the serial number secret.

scamalert · 14-03-2017 4:03pm

just tested electrum wallet seems quite decent in security,bought 20$ btc came trough almost instantly < actually impressed,thou at this price not sure what to do with it,buy shrooms or weed smth on darknet (joking)

few questions :
why is there about 20 addresses generated,since once rcvd payment see that next in line is suggested,that said is there any disadvantage in using same one if buying more in the future.
Also ,is there a way to combine coins say if topping up by 10$,what way payment would go out if paying 25 while having 10 and 20,since not sure if each transaction would have its separate fee etc.

to those who wonder how to get btc,went private route trough btc forum,and just agreeing on payment option,disadvantage its a bit expensive rate,bonus possible to look up rating of person your buying as in replies,and no crap with providing details to third parties or waiting week till payment is processed.

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 5:01pm

There are multiple receiving addresses for security and anonymity. You can re-use a receiving address as many times as you want, but that links all transactions and could lead to identification of the recipient. Wouldn't bother me, but might bother some people.

I just let Electrum generate a new receiving address each time because it's set up to do that and it's no bother.

Electrum will accrue a 'balance' if you acquire more, so you just see the balance, so if you have balance of $30 and pay out $25, it will just 'happen', you don't to need to think about it or do anything.

jobless · 14-03-2017 5:03pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I do have a backup, but also, when you create the Etherium wallet, it gives you a long list of unique words to write down on paper - a wallet regeneration key. If you keep that list safe, you can re-generate your wallet on another new machine, even if you don't have a backup.

Wallet is a bit of a misnomer, I think, because it doesn't contain your coins. It's more of a complicated key. It's more like your coins are kept in a safety deposit box in a bank (the bitcoin miners) and your wallet is a key with a serial number. Your laptop and wallet don't contain the coins, they are still safe in the bank. So long as you have the serial number of the key to your safety deposit box; if you lose the key, you can get another one cut by providing the serial number. So can anyone else, which is why you keep the serial number secret.

thanks for that...how do you go about actually buying them?

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 5:20pm

I place an order with Belgiacoin, which includes giving them my receiving address, then they give me their IBAN and account details and I just send the appropriate amount to their account. When they confirm receipt of the funds, they send the coins and they appear in the wallet. They also send an email to say they have sent them.

Be aware that the rate is 'floating' so the amount of coin you get will be determined by the going rate at the time their bank acknowledges your payment, not the rate when you place the order.

I have received coin on the same day I have made the transfer, 8hrs or so later, but more usually it's the next day.

The Electrum app doesn't have to be 'on' or running either. The actual transaction is on the blockchain. Electrum will read the blockchain next time you run it and will notify you then that you have funds. If the app is running when the coins are sent, you will see a new transaction appear and a clock will turn from red to green as it gets confirmations of your transaction from multiple sources.

808SOS · 14-03-2017 6:02pm

jobless wrote: »

thanks for that...how do you go about actually buying them?

Hi I have recently joined the party and have started a blog explaining
[in simple language] about Bitcoin in particular and going forward about crypto currency in general http://cryptoonline.blogspot.ie/

I use exodus.io wallet, its a desktop one which supports Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Dash and Dogecoin.

I buy my currency from anycoindirect.eu via trustpay, its a 24hour transaction which I am happy with at the moment. You wont have to supply photo ID but you will have limited buying power. I am verified by my phone and email and can purchase up to €500 per week {if I wanted to or if I had the funds to}

808SOS · 14-03-2017 6:05pm

another thing about the exodus desktop wallet is the "shapeshift" function
which is like trading inside the walled from one currency to another, very handy
and is kind of unique for a desktop wallet.

jobless · 14-03-2017 11:08pm

808SOS wrote: »

Hi I have recently joined the party and have started a blog explaining
[in simple language] about Bitcoin in particular and going forward about crypto currency in general http://cryptoonline.blogspot.ie/

I use exodus.io wallet, its a desktop one which supports Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, Dash and Dogecoin.

I buy my currency from anycoindirect.eu via trustpay, its a 24hour transaction which I am happy with at the moment. You wont have to supply photo ID but you will have limited buying power. I am verified by my phone and email and can purchase up to €500 per week {if I wanted to or if I had the funds to}

great thanks for that, will take a look!

jobless · 14-03-2017 11:32pm

cnocbui wrote: »

I place an order with Belgiacoin, which includes giving them my receiving address, then they give me their IBAN and account details and I just send the appropriate amount to their account. When they confirm receipt of the funds, they send the coins and they appear in the wallet. They also send an email to say they have sent them.

Be aware that the rate is 'floating' so the amount of coin you get will be determined by the going rate at the time their bank acknowledges your payment, not the rate when you place the order.

I have received coin on the same day I have made the transfer, 8hrs or so later, but more usually it's the next day.

The Electrum app doesn't have to be 'on' or running either. The actual transaction is on the blockchain. Electrum will read the blockchain next time you run it and will notify you then that you have funds. If the app is running when the coins are sent, you will see a new transaction appear and a clock will turn from red to green as it gets confirmations of your transaction from multiple sources.

how open to hacking are desktop wallets?... do you store the coin keys etc offline?

cnocbui · 14-03-2017 11:36pm

jobless wrote: »

how open to hacking are desktop wallets?... do you store the coin keys etc offline?

The wallet is protected by a password, so the degree of protection depends on the strength of the password..

alb · 15-03-2017 2:09pm

scamalert wrote: »

few questions :
why is there about 20 addresses generated,since once rcvd payment see that next in line is suggested,that said is there any disadvantage in using same one if buying more in the future.
Also ,is there a way to combine coins say if topping up by 10$,what way payment would go out if paying 25 while having 10 and 20,since not sure if each transaction would have its separate fee etc.

As someone else mentioned, different addresses are used for each receiving transaction (and change received from your own sent transactions) for privacy reasons. Wallets may generate and display many up front.

Bitcoin transactions are made up of 1 or more 'inputs' and result in one or more 'outputs', so multiple of your wallet addresses may be used as inputs for a single transaction. There is a single fee for the transaction, but the fee depends on the data size (not amount of bitcoins being sent) of the transaction, which will be larger the more inputs and outputs it has.

For example if one of your receiving address had 10 and another had 20, and you wanted to pay someone 25. A transaction would be created with 2 inputs (the 10 and 20) and two ouputs - 25 to the address of the person you are sending to and 5 (the change) to one of your wallet addresses.

scamalert · 15-03-2017 3:35pm

one more question,how do i calculate fee ?since by default on etherum wallet i see fee is set to 10% slider in the middle ,and also if sending amount does the fee come out of the sent amount.since theres few mentions in docs to increase fee in case it gets stuck etc,but whats appropriate rate when sending sub 100$£e amounts,to make them pass smooth.

BrokenArrows · 15-03-2017 4:03pm

scamalert wrote: »

one more question,how do i calculate fee ?since by default on etherum wallet i see fee is set to 10% slider in the middle ,and also if sending amount does the fee come out of the sent amount.since theres few mentions in docs to increase fee in case it gets stuck etc,but whats appropriate rate when sending sub 100$£e amounts,to make them pass smooth.

These websites give you an estimate.
I have no idea how accurate they are

https://bitcoinfees.21.co/
https://estimatefee.appspot.com/

Buying bitcoins

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