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Mahon Tribunal report

245

Comments

  • #32
    RichardAnd
    Registered Users Posts: 3,627 ✭✭✭RichardAnd


    Unless the parties named in the report as having abused their offices are charged and tried as criminals , I see little point to this. It's my opinion that corruption in office should be considered treason against the state and if convicted, the guilty person(s) should receive the sentence detailed for such a crime.

    in the case of treason or murder, shall in passing sentence specify as the minimum period of imprisonment to be served by that person a period of not less than forty years,

    Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec4


  • #33
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #34
    wexie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,480 ✭✭✭wexie


    The Tribunal says its investigations into Bertie Ahern's accounts sought to establish or exclude a connection between funds related Mr Ahern and Mr Owen O'Callaghan but its inquiries in this regard were "inconclusive."
    This was so because much of the explanations provided by Ahern, as to the source of the substantial funds available to him, were deemed by the Tribunal to be "untrue".
    The report stops short of a corruption finding in respect of former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern but it totally rejects his evidence and that of related witnesses about the sources of monies in his own and related bank accounts.
    It says Ahern failed to truthfully account for a total of IR£165,214.25 passing through accounts connected with him.

    Just wonderful, so now the taxpayer has spent an ungodly amount of money to substantiate what a lot of us have known / suspected for quite a while but other than that SFA has been achieved.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. (H. L. Mencken )

    Turns out I'm normal after all....who knew...


  • #35
    Dr Galen
    Registered Users Posts: 7,373 ✭✭✭Dr Galen


    Villain wrote: »
    Mike for starters:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53345777

    Have a read of the thread http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055100299
    Villain wrote: »
    umm so the Mahon Tribunal has agreed with my opinions of Bertie's evidence.

    Don't suppose the mods here want to offer me an apology for been banned years ago for saying exactly what the Tribunal has said today!

    We're going to clear this up once, and then you can take it to PM etc etc

    You've linked to a thread from 2007 - closed by a Mod who is no longer a Mod, and with a final comment from a poster who at the time was a site Admin.

    That final post makes it very clear why the thread was closed and potentially heading for trouble, not just as a thread, but could have led to issues for the site in general.

    If you really do have an issue, then I suggest you take it up with the current site Admins.

    Cheers

    DrG


  • #36
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Paraic Flynn found to have taken corrupt payments - bought a farm with the money. I doubt CAB will go knocking on the door....but it should.

    Bertie and friends found to be total liars. Corruption not found only because the evidence was inconclusive, because the testimony of 14 witnesses was found to be bollox.

    So what's the penalty for bare faced lying to a tribunal? Wasn't Grainne Carruth threatened with some penalty until she broke down?

    We should never forget that FF supported Ahern throughout this and senior members attacked the independence of the tribunal. Shame on FF, shame on Bertie.


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  • #37
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0624/mahon.html

    2004
    former Fianna Fáil councillor says his life has been 'made hell' by what he claims was a false allegation of corruption by Tom Gilmartin

    2012 - page 2456 of mahon final report
    Cllr Hanrahan corruptlly sought a payment of IR$100,000 from Mr Gilmartin, in return for his support for the rezoning of the Quarryvale lands.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Page 2457
    The tribunal was satisfied that complaints made to the Gardai by Mr Gilmartin about Mr George Redmond, Mr Liam Lawlor & Cllr Finbarr Hanrahan were not thoroughly investigated by the Gardai in the course of their inquiry. Notwithstanding Superintendent Burns` evidence to the contrary

    Gardai Complicit.
    RichardAnd wrote: »
    Unless the parties named in the report as having abused their offices are charged and tried as criminals , I see little point to this. It's my opinion that corruption in office should be considered treason against the state and if convicted, the guilty person(s) should receive the sentence detailed for such a crime.




    Source: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0016/print.html#sec4


  • #40
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,144 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    My favourite line so far
    corruption affected every level of Irish political ife, those with the power to stop it were frequently implicated in it


  • #41
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Des Peelo spinning on RTE radio.


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  • #42
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Michael Martin clearly sweating if he's waiting until tomorrow to make a statement.


  • #43
    Darsad
    Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Darsad


    The Mahon report simply shows that corruption is and was a society issue if as the report states "corruption affected every level of political / public life". Its the same as our drink culture , corruption was and probably still is a way of life , its how things were done or how one got things done. I doubt too many others given the same opportunity would not avail of the odd brown paper envelope. Maybe just maybe the Moriarty and Mahon reports will bring about the required cultural change required.


  • #44
    Villain
    Registered Users Posts: 15,944 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    The thing that annoys me is that it was obvious from the Tribunals sittings that Bertie was lying before he won the 2007 election and again obvious when McDowell kept him in Government, it's just been confirmed now.

    I mean take the Dollar transaction alone, no one could have believed it wasn't Dollar's based on the facts that were presented. McDowell's reputation might be a little lower afte today.


  • #45
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,074 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Laminations wrote: »
    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum

    And that is on top of the £5,000 in early 90s, when 10,000 to 12,000 was average industrial wage, that he deposited in a bank account in Dublin belonging to his wife/girlfriend. :rolleyes:

    How did RTE manage to get the charlie and bertie money man, des peelo, to appear ?
    He is still pedalling sh**e about even if aherns finances were bizzare it doesn't make them untrue.

    The most damming indictment of fianna fail and indeed the former PDs, (step on up mr mdowell who in 2007 was complaining the tribunal would cost 1 billion), is that the cabinet of the time was trying to pull the Tribunal down.

    Now how many of the current ff frontbench were in that cabinet ?


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    jmayo wrote: »
    And that is on top of the £5,000 in early 90s, when 10,000 to 12,000 was average industrial wage, that he deposited in a bank account in Dublin belonging to his wife/girlfriend. :rolleyes:

    I sincerely hope there is emphasis put onto this fact in the Irish news media. What might seem like smallish figures now were quite large back in the day. 'sall relative, lads.


  • #47
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,458 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    The systematic corruption within the political system is just sick.


  • #48
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    will CAB be knocking on Pee Flynn's door?


  • #49
    Sideshow Mark
    Registered Users Posts: 1,155 ✭✭✭Sideshow Mark


    So Mr Ahern is a liar and a corrupt politician, wonder how many years it will take before he (or anyone else mentioned in the tribunal) sees the inside of a prison cell?

    On the bright side it has to be the end of Fianna Fail


  • #50
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Laminations wrote: »
    Will someone do a document search for Micheal Martin and find out what the report makes of him and the allegation of him receiving a five figure sum

    There are a few references around one payment directly to m.m. (the first quote) and two to projects/funds related to him.

    Page 384
    Riga's half year accounts to 31 October 1991 revealed that a IR£5,000 political contribution made by Riga to Mr Micheál Martin in June 2001 was identified exactly as that

    That payment appears to be above board (what did m.m. say about it?).

    Page 724
    The political donations to politcal parties, including Fianna Fáil, made by Riga Ltd & O'Callaghan Properties Ltd, as recorded on the books of those companies, suggested that, for 1989, the two companies expeded a total of just IR£1,400 on five donations, including the sum of IR£1,000 paid towards a secondary school project, and referable to Mr Micheál Martin TD.

    Seems to have been paid to the project not m.m.


    Page 725
    In July 1993, O'Callaghan Properties Ltd made a payment of IR£5,000 to the Atlantic Pond Fund, a charitable purpose, at the request of Mr Micheál Martin

    Doesn't seem to have been paid to m.m.


  • #51
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Sideshow Mark wrote: »
    So Mr Ahern is a liar and a corrupt politician

    Ah now you can't say he is corrupt, sure his 'friends' are flooding the airwaves emphasising that the tribunal didn't find him corrupt.

    But then again, you can't say he is not corrupt, the tribunal couldn't judge either way. Inconclusive. His friends are trying to avoid this truth, and the reasons behind it being that he spun such a line of sh1te.


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  • #52
    timesnap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 423 ✭✭timesnap


    Although much of this was expected am i the only one who feels sick to my stomach just how corrupt those shower were?.
    i did not expect Mahon report to be so frank tbh.
    these creeps led us to our doom,they should not even wait to be expelled they should just resign their membership NOW,but that would be expecting standards from these people.

    i am tempted to suggest to Bertie to take his own advice and go commit suicide.
    they should be put up against a wall and shot if there was any justice.
    excuse the strong language but the suffering their amoral behavior has inflicted on us deserves no less.


  • #53
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    jmayo wrote: »
    And that is on top of the £5,000 in early 90s, when 10,000 to 12,000 was average industrial wage, that he deposited in a bank account in Dublin belonging to his wife/girlfriend. :rolleyes:

    How did RTE manage to get the charlie and bertie money man, des peelo, to appear ?
    He is still pedalling sh**e about even if aherns finances were bizzare it doesn't make them untrue.

    The most damming indictment of fianna fail and indeed the former PDs, (step on up mr mdowell who in 2007 was complaining the tribunal would cost 1 billion), is that the cabinet of the time was trying to pull the Tribunal down.

    Now how many of the current ff frontbench were in that cabinet ?
    Bear in mind that I'm most definitely not sticking up for any of these folk, but the Average Industrial Earnings (AIE) in 1992 Ireland was actually £15,380 (púnts), according to the CSO. This was across all industry, including Manufacturing, Agricultural and Fisheries. Excluding Agricultural and Fisheries, it was higher.


  • #54
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    antoobrien wrote: »
    Doesn't seem to have been paid to m.m.

    Wasn't money lodged in his wife's account? Does it mention that.

    (I'd check myself but am using net and radio on phone)


  • #55
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Caller on Livelive joining the obvious dots. If they were under oath and now the evidence is found to be untruthful, what happens to the liars?


  • #56
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,074 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Rojomcdojo wrote: »
    I sincerely hope there is emphasis put onto this fact in the Irish news media. What might seem like smallish figures now were quite large back in the day. 'sall relative, lads.

    Isn't it a bit funny that a councillor, although lord mayor of Cork, was getting
    sizable political contributions from a major property developer.
    a payment of £1,000 in June 1989 was described by O’Callaghan as a donation to a school mini-project given via Martin, but by Martin as a political donation to his campaign.
    O’Callaghan first told the tribunal that £5,000 he gave Martin in 1991 was for the Atlantic Pond Restoration Fund and was given to Martin in his capacity as lord mayor of Cork. He then changed his evidence to say that it was “a political contribution to Micheál Martin for the June 1991 local elections”.

    In relation to this donation Martin’s evidence was that “there was no issuing of receipts at that time in terms of election contributions”.

    As for the £5,000 cheque, it was actually lodged to an account held by Martin’s wife Mary, not in Cork, but in Allied Irish Bank in Baggot Street in Dublin. (She was living in Dublin at the time and working for Fianna Fáil.)

    Martin explained this by saying that at the time there were “no issues in terms of where you lodged the contribution or in terms of the manner in which you dealt with it . . . you used your personal money in your accounts, political contributions would have gone into your accounts”.

    Martin had no memory of a meeting with lobbyist Frank Dunlop in November 1991, which was recorded in Dunlop’s diary.
    More significantly, he denied point blank ever bringing O’Callaghan to “meet other politicians”.

    He said that if he had ever brought O’Callaghan to meet Bertie Ahern he would remember it. Yet when the tribunal showed him Ahern’s ministerial diary for April 13th, 1994, which seemed to record a meeting with O’Callaghan and Martin, he could not recall it.


    http://www.peoplesrepublicofcork.com/forums/showthread.php?t=191310


  • #57
    SeaFields
    Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    Michael Martin is up a creek without a paddle right now. As per his Ard Fheis statement he will act "swiftly and decisively" with anyone found guilty of wrong doing. This will mean Bertie will be kicked out so we are led to believe. However the tribunal also mentions a perceived coordinated attack by the cabinet (of which he was a part) at the time on the tribunals independence.

    He is going to have to kick out Bertie due to the findings of the report yet defend himself, along with a few survivors of the last GE, against others findings.


  • #58
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Laminations wrote: »
    Wasn't money lodged in his wife's account? Does it mention that.

    (I'd check myself but am using net and radio on phone)

    No, I've quoted the passage verbatim. As far as I can see Mahon decided that the payment was above board (from the company point of view) and didn't look at it any further.

    I haven't seen a reference to the wife's account, but it's thousands of pages long so I might have missed something.


  • #59
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,074 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Bear in mind that I'm most definitely not sticking up for any of these folk, but the Average Industrial Earnings (AIE) in 1992 Ireland was actually £15,380 (púnts), according to the CSO. This was across all industry, including Manufacturing, Agricultural and Fisheries. Excluding Agricultural and Fisheries, it was higher.

    I remember coming out of college in 91 and an engineer starting salary was on from about 13,000 to 17,000.
    Now I am not sure if an engineer starting salary would be labelled as average industrial wage.
    In manufacturing company I worked in 1992, the average wage was around 12,000.

    Either way 5,000 was a sizable chunk of change to most people, bar it seems ff politicans. :rolleyes:


  • #60
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,537 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Some of the goings on here make Goodfellas look like ****ing choirboys.

    At least the household charge will do its bit to pay the massive legal bills that these trubunals have amassed.


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  • #61
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Fifteen years and a quarter of a billion euro to find out something the dogs in the street already knew: Ireland has some of the best politicians that money can buy and a lot of fat cat capitalists were willing to help line their pockets in return for preferential treatment that helped them shaft honest citizens.:rolleyes: The most worrying aspect of the summary of the report I have read is that at least some Gardai seem to have been, at best, less than diligent in the performance of their duty and, at worst, downright involved in illegality of the "protect influential politicians" kind in addition to the "framing innocent people" kind that we already knew about from Donegal and elsewhere. :eek:

    I'm looking forward to reading the full report, but expect that it will not lead to anyone being jailed. At best, sez I the eternal optimist, controls will be tightened up, the media will become more vigilant, and political corruption will, over the long term, be reduced to something like the level that the Nordic countries are lucky to be able to boast of.:)

    corrupt_politician_the_second_oldest_profession_tshirt-p235804519528565330z7tqq_400.jpg


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