Ruairí Quinn: Teachers don't appreciate gravity of economic crisis

liammur · 10-04-2012 2:56pm #1

The teaching conferences are taking place this week. I read the teachers are giving Quinn the silent treatment.
http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/education/latest-news/quinn-gets-silent-treatment-from-teachers-at-conference-3076321.html

What don't they get? The country is financially ruined. There has to be cuts.

How about primary principal teachers actually teaching if they are so concerned about ratios?

Many teachers are on over €100K.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/1500-teachers-earn-up-to-115k-a-year-189895.html
Something has to give. And I believe in education, but surely this can't go on ?

Permabear · 10-04-2012 3:45pm

This post has been deleted.

darkman2 · 10-04-2012 3:48pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Of course they are aware. Most of it went into their pockets in the form of wages.

youtube! · 10-04-2012 4:04pm

darkman2 wrote: »

Of course they are aware. Most of it went into their pockets in the form of wages.

an illustration of your very point!

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/1500-teachers-earn-up-to-115k-a-year-189895.html

Dirk Gently · 10-04-2012 4:08pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Not if they've been reading this forum. Someone keeps mentioning them every single day.

20Cent · 10-04-2012 4:19pm

Any links to the pontifications of teachers and their union representatives? haven't heard any myself.

juan.kerr · 10-04-2012 4:23pm

Imagine what salaries would be like if they hadn't been left behind by the so called Celtic Tiger...

K-9 · 10-04-2012 4:26pm

Merged thread from the Irish Economy forum to keep the Teachers discussion on one thread.

Idbatterim · 10-04-2012 4:26pm

you cant blame the teachers or unions for creaming off as much as they can, the government ultimately are the ones to blame!

Dannyboy83 · 10-04-2012 4:30pm

I'm sick and tired of the unions threatening us.
Another day, another threat.

If only they had the same aggression/conviction when it came to reform...

juan.kerr · 10-04-2012 4:31pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

you cant blame the teachers or unions for creaming off as much as they can, the government ultimately are the ones to blame!

Indeed, I wonder though whether it is a coincidence that a fair number of politicians are teachers on career break (or sabbatical?).

youtube! · 10-04-2012 4:35pm

juan.kerr wrote: »

Indeed, I wonder though whether it is a coincidence that a fair number of politicians are teachers on career break (or sabbatical?).

over to the conspiracy theory forum with you julian! (suspect your dead right though):rolleyes:

20Cent · 10-04-2012 4:43pm

juan.kerr wrote: »

Indeed, I wonder though whether it is a coincidence that a fair number of politicians are teachers on career break (or sabbatical?).

A teacher is going to know a lot of people in a local area, will be involved in many aspects of local life, also has the time to be involved in politics. No mystery why they are over represented in government.

liammur · 10-04-2012 4:52pm

Can anybody tell me what a primary princial teacher does if they don't teach in the classroom ?

This is the type of waste that needs to be tackled.

doc_17 · 10-04-2012 5:59pm

liammur wrote: »

Can anybody tell me what a primary princial teacher does if they don't teach in the classroom ?

This is the type of waste that needs to be tackled.

OK - Say it a medium sized primary school with about 350 kids. Managing budgets, managing staff, preparing tenders for contruction work/repairs. Dealing with ill-disciplined students, dealing with parents, trying to organise fundraisers, dealing with the DES on an ongoing basis, the paperwork involved in a school with about 400 people all in must be huge, covering for sick/absent teachers.

On another thread I did mention (might have been to you as well) that you don't expect the manager of a factory with a coouple hundred workers to be on the floor building the end product.

Thats just an idea of what they might be at, I hardly think they'd be sitting round watching youtube or updating their FB status!

The Waltzing Consumer · 10-04-2012 6:26pm

doc_17 wrote: »

On another thread I did mention (might have been to you as well) that you don't expect the manager of a factory with a coouple hundred workers to be on the floor building the end product.

If the workers on the floor took as many sick days as teachers, the boss probably would be on floor building the end product.

It also is never a good sign when you have to use "covering for sick/absent teachers" as a job task. If I had a manager come to me and say that is one of his tasks, I would be thinking "What is going on with his company if covering for sick staff is one of his key functions?"

liammur · 10-04-2012 6:35pm

doc_17 wrote: »

OK - Say it a medium sized primary school with about 350 kids. Managing budgets, managing staff, preparing tenders for contruction work/repairs. Dealing with ill-disciplined students, dealing with parents, trying to organise fundraisers, dealing with the DES on an ongoing basis, the paperwork involved in a school with about 400 people all in must be huge, covering for sick/absent teachers.

On another thread I did mention (might have been to you as well) that you don't expect the manager of a factory with a coouple hundred workers to be on the floor building the end product.

Thats just an idea of what they might be at, I hardly think they'd be sitting round watching youtube or updating their FB status!

I'd be very surprised if:
they have to manage staff, teachers are professionals
they may to have to do a tender more than once every 5 years

They don't cover for sick teachers, substitute teachers do that.

Now, secondary is different, here you would have plenty of work to do. Even many small primary schools principals don't teach, in the big city ones, ok, maybe they have office stuff to do, but surely they could cover when a teacher is sick, saving the taxpayer €200 odd a day.

The unions are putting out 1 side of the story only.

nuac · 10-04-2012 6:54pm

Teachers still seem to have a massive sense of entitlement.

Each year to one degree or the other some of them behave rudely to the Ministe attending. The Minister represents the tax payer. He is entitled to a hearing without the militancy

hungergamer · 10-04-2012 6:56pm

Teachers are aware of the economic crisis seeing as most of us can barely cover rent, bills etc with what we earn! Its the politicians that live the life off all their allowances that need a reality check!

Hootanany · 10-04-2012 7:05pm

hungergamer wrote: »

Teachers are aware of the economic crisis seeing as most of us can barely cover rent, bills etc with what we earn! Its the politicians that live the life off all their allowances that need a reality check!

Why don't they redeploy all Teacher during School holidays to do tendering work and other stuff most ordinary people work a full year with a couple of weeks off.

youtube! · 10-04-2012 7:09pm

hungergamer wrote: »

Teachers are aware of the economic crisis seeing as most of us can barely cover rent, bills etc with what we earn! Its the politicians that live the life off all their allowances that need a reality check!

In fairness you must be new to the profession in which case I can agree, its not easy to be waiting around as a substitute scavaging for a few hrs while the smug seniors take yet another paid day of absence. I wouldnt like to be getting into the profession now thats for sure,but for those in 10yrs and more its a very nice gravy train.

mikemac1 · 10-04-2012 7:18pm

Seems to me the union and talking heads care more about the payscale and allowances of the permanent staff then the struggles of the new staff

It's tough for new staff, struggling to get hours and spending years in temporary employment. A struggle

But if cuts are coming the permanent members will look after themselves and the temporary staff are not a priority

If I were a new teacher with hardly any hours I think I'd be asking is the union even bothered with me or is run by the permanent staff for the permanent staff

20Cent · 10-04-2012 7:20pm

When is the last time there was a strike?
There was a one day one about two years or so ago then its many years again until the one before that. This stuff about militant teachers and unions pulling strings somehow doesn't stand up to scrutiny. They gave Quinn the silent treatment poor guy so what. 1.5billion in unsecured unguranteed AIB bonds being paid tomorrow bet you it doesn't even make the news.

liammur · 10-04-2012 7:23pm

I'm certainly not against teachers, rather waste in the system. They need to eradicate before giving Quinn the silent treatment.

Same applies to other areas like the councils/health etc.

southsiderosie · 10-04-2012 7:33pm

MOD NOTE:

I am having a very hard time seeing how the OP for this thread creates any room for rational discussion of either education or the budget, and predictably this thread has descended into a teacher-bashing fest. As a reminder to posters, the forum is very clear: THIS IS NOT LIVELINE.

I am hoping things can make a turn for the better - or at least the constructive - otherwise I see little point in keeping this thread open.

doc_17 · 10-04-2012 7:44pm

The Waltzing Consumer wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

On another thread I did mention (might have been to you as well) that you don't expect the manager of a factory with a coouple hundred workers to be on the floor building the end product.

If the workers on the floor took as many sick days as teachers, the boss probably would be on floor building the end product.

It also is never a good sign when you have to use "covering for sick/absent teachers" as a job task. If I had a manager come to me and say that is one of his tasks, I would be thinking "What is going on with his company if covering for sick staff is one of his key functions?"

Just to confirm that absent might mean being awaywith a group of students in official school business and that not all sick leave is covered by paid substitutes.

Did you know that if a teacher cOmes down sick on Friday and misses school on a Friday and then misses monday it counts as 4 sick days for the purposes of the official stats? No idea why this is but just throwing it in there.

How many sick days do teachers take anyway?

Hootanany · 10-04-2012 7:49pm

doc_17 wrote: »

Just to confirm that absent might mean being awaywith a group of students in official school business and that not all sick leave is covered by paid substitutes.

Did you know that if a teacher cOmes down sick on Friday and misses school on a Friday and then misses monday it counts as 4 sick days for the purposes of the official stats? No idea why this is but just throwing it in there.

How many suck days do teachers take anyway?

I saw what you did their.

Manach · 10-04-2012 9:20pm

As an aside, I don't think Mr. Quinn/Labour appreciated it either.
On topic, I would rate most teachers as a valuable resource. Education nowadays in modern society cannot just stop outside the formal classroom years. Perhaps Mr. Quinn might be try to leverage say junior teachers to provide summer classes during the off term period to upskill/refresh people in various needed skills - maths, english etc. This would give the junior teachers extra experience and also gain a more informed society.

Hootanany · 10-04-2012 9:31pm

Vizzy wrote: »

Whair ?

SuckIng from the Teat

vamos! · 10-04-2012 9:42pm

Manach wrote: »

As an aside, I don't think Mr. Quinn/Labour appreciated it either.
On topic, I would rate most teachers as a valuable resource. Education nowadays in modern society cannot just stop outside the formal classroom years. Perhaps Mr. Quinn might be try to leverage say junior teachers to provide summer classes during the off term period to upskill/refresh people in various needed skills - maths, english etc. This would give the junior teachers extra experience and also gain a more informed society.

So junior teachers who are struggling on part-time hours and who have been taken on on sub-standard contracts, worse pensions, less allowances will work more for less? Who will supervise and correct exams? I chose to become a secondary teacher. I teach MFL. I have no intention of teaching maths and English to school leavers. I also have no intention of doing much more work than my colleagues who are paid more because they happen to be working for longer. Also, having done my PGDE and with a few years experience under my belt, I consider myself to have enough experience to do my job. Leave the voluntary work to the volunteers.

Manach · 10-04-2012 9:49pm

vamos! wrote: »

I consider myself to have enough experience to do my job. Leave the voluntary work to the volunteers.

It was left as an assumption that this would be paid work.

Ruairí Quinn: Teachers don't appreciate gravity of economic crisis

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