Top Athletes must race each other not the clock - discuss

spaceylou · 15-05-2015 12:01pm #1

Spotted this article on rte by Sonia O'Sullivan and it made me think of comments that were made else where on this forum about athletics in Ireland.

Wondering what people think of the point she is making?

walshb · 15-05-2015 12:07pm

It's a very good point. I think she is saying that if the elites race more against elites they will improve. This trickles down to the rest as well. The clock will always play a part in it, but there's nothing more motivating and encouraging than chasing/racing a person. It can only help you against the clock.

ThisRegard · 15-05-2015 12:09pm

I like the point she's making, and it's evidenced on this forum with people chasing their PBs constantly. I understand the reasons behind this, but it was just never me. I haven't ran a timed 10k race for years for example, so have no idea what I'd do a 10k in at the moment beyond a reasonable guess based on training.

But then the races I do, mostly off road, across country etc, don't lend themselves to running against the clock, even the same course you ran last year may alter slightly due to weather conditions etc.

Take for example IMRA races. You get the same crowd for the most part year on so you tend to know who you finish around. Part of the fun of these races is running and plotting against these people. You don't look at your watch thinking I'll let them go, I'm running at my planned race pace anyway. But rather I'll catch that fecker where I know they're weaker than me, be it on the flat, climb, or descent.

It makes for a much more entertaining race imo. But as I said, different people want different things, and different events lend themselves to running against the clock or not. The buzz you get from coming wrecked just ahead or behind trying to hold them off is unparalleled, swapping stories such as I knew that was you coming behind as I recognised your breathing.

Chivito550 · 15-05-2015 12:49pm

As long as there are qualification standards required for an athlete to reach a major championship then athletes will always be racing the clock. The mindset will only change if the IAAF bring in a radically different qualification system based on placings in races.

YFlyer · 15-05-2015 12:55pm

She has said before that a number of Irish athletes these days are afraid to race against each other and will only race when they think they can get the qualifying time. Their time trialing and not racing.

rom · 15-05-2015 1:07pm

The olympic trials in the US is a good idea. Ok so you have to get a time to enter but essentially you will be racing the best on the day. While for some to make the trials is the goal but its a great way to encourage people because otherwise if it was just the standard you would a lot going as they are not in the top 5 is their a point in trying as only 3 can be selected.

In the mens you had 85 and womens 152. Many have close to zero chance to qualify but similar to a BQ might motivate a recreational runner qualifying for the trials is a great idea. It means that all athletes are all training with the similar goal A race which makes more depth.

Krusty_Clown · 15-05-2015 1:15pm

There's a huge amount of validity to her arguments. But there are contradictions too. Such as the dilution on the road-racing scene. A good point. Then you read the last three paragraphs of the article.

Chivito550 · 15-05-2015 1:18pm

Actually racing somebody is a great feeling. Pipping somebody who should have beaten you on paper, losing to somebody that you really shouldn't lose to. It's what makes sport great.

The problem with my discipline, the 400m, in Ireland is that it is completely top heavy, and despite the fact I'm running strong times, I'm still a significant distance behind most who specialise in this distance here. There's very few 400m runners slower than 52:xx so in many races I come a comfortable last, so I've no choice but to have chasing the clock as the main aim.

This is a huge contrast to road running which lets face it is very bottom heavy. I used to come in the top 10-15% at races with truly dreadful times.

But that is the way it is, and I did choose this, and to be honest, getting to within 10m of a certain runner can be just as much of a motivating factor as beating somebody.

average_runner · 15-05-2015 2:18pm

Chivito550 wrote: »

As long as there are qualification standards required for an athlete to reach a major championship then athletes will always be racing the clock. The mindset will only change if the IAAF bring in a radically different qualification system based on placings in races.

The top guys will get the qualification times no matter what, but it would be great for athletics if we had races regularly with the best in them instead of the boring i ain't racing if he is there.

walshb · 15-05-2015 2:21pm

"It's a flat and fast course and I’ll be hovering around 20 minutes for anyone who would like to run around with me."

That would be something to think of for anyone looking to go sub 20 minutes. A WC pacemaker and one of Ireland's greatest ever sports stars! I'd be tempted myself only I'd hate to burn her with a K to go!

RayCun · 15-05-2015 2:31pm

maybe regional and national league systems, funnel the top runners into a series of races?

but you don't get as many top runners in even the championship races as you could, it probably wouldn't work

and its not just the number of races on offer either, there is a fair amount of competition-dodging going on

robinph · 15-05-2015 4:30pm

Unless it has changed much in the last few years, from my racing around Dublin series and then switching to the UK I was actually finding the races in Dublin had a higher standard around my level (quite a bit behind the pointy end, but ahead of the masses).
In the UK there are more faster people about, but running in equivalent local race series and I'd find myself much closer to the front. But then the super-duper speedy guys all come out to race at certain races and you find yourself way back at the other end of the pack. Maybe the Irish would travel further, and more regularly, in order to win a €10 voucher and pair of socks each week.

When fighting for qualification standards though there is no point in having trials like in the US, unless you've already got hundreds of people who could get the standard. If there is only a couple of people who are capable, then it doesn't matter really if they time trail or race for position as you are still only going to get a couple of people qualifying. Maybe the guys just behind need to stop competing week in week out for a few quids worth of vouchers though and they might move up a step.

Krusty_Clown · 16-05-2015 11:42pm

pac_man wrote: »

Monetarily speaking,given alot of these athletes are possibly in full time jobs, can you blame them to be selective in terms of what races they do and picking up prize money. Its a nice supplementary income.

Fair point, but... That situation has always existed. Except 20 years ago, they ran for toasters and colour TVs, but the standards were largely better (5,000m+).

Timmaay · 17-05-2015 7:18am

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Fair point, but... That situation has always existed. Except 20 years ago, they ran for toasters and colour TVs, but the standards were largely better (5,000m+).

The men's prizes were TVs/radios etc and the women's prizes were toasters/irons etc haha!

rom · 17-05-2015 10:07am

Timmaay wrote: »

The men's prizes were TVs/radios etc and the women's prizes were toasters/irons etc haha!

10 years prior there were probably no women in the race at all.

NiallG4 · 17-05-2015 1:30pm

A few raced each other today. Christie, O Neill and Kenneally all ran in Terenure.

Top Athletes must race each other not the clock - discuss

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