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Career Advice: Spring MVC or ASP.NET MVC

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  • 24-04-2014 12:24am
    #1
    SimonTemplar
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭


    I'll be going into final year of my evening course in September, for which I have to do a substantial project that will be worth 40% of the entire four year degree.

    I have plenty of exposure to Spring MVC and ASP.NET MVC stacks, both in college and in work and I like both.

    There is plenty of articles online about the technical comparisons of both languages, but I'm more curious about their comparisons from a career point of view in terms of salary, demand, job market, career progression, opportunities etc...(Ireland and UK)

    I'd appreciate any advice on this because the technology I choose for my final year project will probably dictate what language I specialize in for my career path.

    Cheers


Comments

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    #2
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    I work in J2EE, so I'm strongly biased towards the Spring MVC stack.
    If you go the ASP.NET route you'd be more at the mercy of one company, Microsoft, than if you go the typical Linux/Java route.

    Plenty of jobs out there for Java.

    Do a search on Irishjobs.ie for Java developers against ASP.Net developers to get a vague idea of jobs out there.


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    #3
    kayos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭kayos


    Working in .NET means you're at the mercy of Microsoft.
    Working in Java means you are not at the mercy of Oracle.

    Care to explain the logic behind that?


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    #4
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,794 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    kayos wrote: »
    Working in .NET means you're at the mercy of Microsoft.
    Working in Java means you are not at the mercy of Oracle.

    Care to explain the logic behind that?

    When you pick any technology to specialise in your at the mercy of who ever maintains it so I wouldn't let that sway your decision.

    For me its a case of pick whichever tooling you prefer to work with, personally I'm a big fan of Visual Studio and the fact that the programming model is similar for web, desktop and mobile.


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    #5
    kayos
    Registered Users Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭kayos


    liamog wrote: »
    When you pick any technology to specialise in your at the mercy of who ever maintains it so I wouldn't let that sway your decision.

    Which is exactly why I asked the question, its a non-issue in my mind.


  • Options
    #6
    counterpointaud
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭counterpointaud


    liamog wrote: »
    For me its a case of pick whichever tooling you prefer to work with, personally I'm a big fan of Visual Studio and the fact that the programming model is similar for web, desktop and mobile.

    This is my thinking too, having spent some time programming in Java and then moved to ASP.Net MVC. The tools around the Microsoft stack are very nice.


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    #7
    Procasinator
    Registered Users Posts: 1,311 ✭✭✭Procasinator


    kayos wrote: »
    Working in .NET means you're at the mercy of Microsoft.
    Working in Java means you are not at the mercy of Oracle.

    Care to explain the logic behind that?

    I think it's worse in .NET, where it's nearly always going to be a full Microsoft stack - Windows, IIS, SQL Server, Visual Studio and predominately using Microsoft frameworks and libraries.

    Sure, you could deploy on Mono and no reason why you can't use any DB. You could use Nancy instead of MVC, NHibernate instead of Entity Framework, etc. But quite often, Microsoft tooling wins out and there isn't always a mature equivalent that fits into the stack.

    Whereas with Oracle and Java, the ecosystem tends to have more major players for operating systems, webservers/app servers, IDEs, libraries, support vendors, e.t.c. Both proprietary and open source.


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    #8
    croo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭croo


    kayos wrote: »
    Working in .NET means you're at the mercy of Microsoft.
    Working in Java means you are not at the mercy of Oracle.

    Care to explain the logic behind that?
    The standards on which the java stack are based are not controlled by oracle.
    Neither is apache, tomcat, openjdk, jboss etc


  • Options
    #9
    CreepingDeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,016 ✭✭✭CreepingDeath


    kayos wrote: »
    Working in .NET means you're at the mercy of Microsoft.
    Working in Java means you are not at the mercy of Oracle.

    Care to explain the logic behind that?

    As Croo mentioned, while Oracle is the dominant JDK for desktops and servers there's plenty of others like OpenJDK, IBM and others.

    Microsofts market is shrinking with more consumers moving away from PC's and Linux is the preferred OS for servers these days.
    Plus games development companies are talking about moving to Linux too.


  • Options
    #10
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    CreepingDeath wrote: »
    As Croo mentioned, while Oracle is the dominant JDK for desktops and servers there's plenty of others like OpenJDK, IBM and others.

    Microsofts market is shrinking with more consumers moving away from PC's and Linux is the preferred OS for servers these days.
    Plus games development companies are talking about moving to Linux too.

    That's true for the retail/consumer market like PCs but not so for enterprises, web hosting etc. Azure has quickly caught up with Amazon for its cloud service.

    The technology stack Microsoft offer is fantastic. Visual Studio is one of the best, if not THE best IDE out there, and it seamlessly integrates with Azure, TFS/Visual Studio Online -> GIT.

    You can get up and running with all of this for free. VS Express and VS Online are free, as is SQL Server Express and you can host 10 websites for free on Azure.

    Over the past few years Microsoft have also started to make their libraries open source.


  • Options
    #11
    croo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭croo


    John_Mc wrote: »
    Visual Studio is ..THE best IDE out there
    Once I read this I know I should read no more. There is no such thing as THE best IDE I jump between 3 and all have their ups & downs.
    Now, if you only work in the MS world it is probably the best - and probably the only real contender too. And that's the point isn't it. There is no real choice!

    You say "TFS -> git" ... okay how does it compare with SVN, Mercurial, Bazaar and many more... Is it the same as them too? Because they're all very different to my eyes with advantages disadvantages to each... but I have a choice. In one scenario I might decide on SVN but in another mercurial ... it depends on what I need. In your world there is no real choice.

    And as for MS providing all these tools for free (and starting to open source its libraries) - well you can thank the rest of us working in the open source world for that not MS, because you can be damn sure that would not be happening if the open source ideas had not be embraced as it has.


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    #12
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    croo wrote: »
    Once I read this I know I should read no more. There is no such thing as THE best IDE I jump between 3 and all have their ups & downs.
    Now, if you only work in the MS world it is probably the best - and probably the only real contender too. And that's the point isn't it. There is no real choice!

    Sorry, what 3 are you talking about here? Regardless of the language or technology, Visual Studio is an excellent IDE. In all my time reading blogs, stackoverflow etc, I've yet to see someone say it is not. Now.. how about you describe some of these negatives based on your experience.
    croo wrote: »

    You say "TFS -> git" ... okay how does it compare with SVN, Mercurial, Bazaar and many more... Is it the same as them too? Because they're all very different to my eyes with advantages disadvantages to each... but I have a choice. In one scenario I might decide on SVN but in another mercurial ... it depends on what I need. In your world there is no real choice.

    When I said "TFS -> git", I meant you can use GIT in conjunction with TFS. It's certainly one of the most popular source control systems out there.

    I've used Mercurial and it was ok, very good for freeware but a bit cumbersome to use. As for choosing different source control systems for different scenarios - that just sounds stupid to me. They all do more or less the same thing but some are easier to use than others
    croo wrote: »
    And as for MS providing all these tools for free (and starting to open source its libraries) - well you can thank the rest of us working in the open source world for that not MS, because you can be damn sure that would not be happening if the open source ideas had not be embraced as it has.

    Give yourself a good pat on the back there, aren't you just great. Why they are doing it is completely irrelevant, they are doing it and that makes the libraries better in terms of functionality, support and modification if needs be.


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    #13
    ChRoMe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭ChRoMe


    John_Mc wrote: »
    Visual Studio is one of the best, if not THE best IDE out there, and it seamlessly integrates with Azure, TFS/Visual Studio Online -> GIT.

    Then why does everyone have to buy Resharper from JetBrains to make it usable?

    I'm not a .NET dev but everyone single .NET dev I know worth their salt insists on buying that plugin.


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    #14
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Then why does everyone have to buy Resharper from JetBrains to make it usable?

    I'm not a .NET dev but everyone single .NET dev I know worth their salt insists on buying that plugin.

    Yep, I have it too and it is fantastic. They also do the same for Java.

    You don't need it to like VS as the intellisense is more than adequate. Reshaper just extends it and makes things a lot easier and that's why people use it.


  • Options
    #15
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,791 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    John_Mc wrote: »
    Why they are doing it is completely irrelevant...
    It's really not. If open sourcing their libraries is making them better, that's a pretty ringing endorsement of open source as a concept, and of open source software in general.


  • Options
    #16
    Talisman
    Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭Talisman


    John_Mc wrote: »
    You can get up and running with all of this for free. VS Express and VS Online are free, as is SQL Server Express and you can host 10 websites for free on Azure.
    Good luck with that - you do realise that the free tier is for testing purposes only? There's no uptime guarantee and it's a low priority service, CPU time is limited (60 minutes per day), bandwidth is limited (165MB per day), the database is limited to 20MB (free for 12 months only). Exceed the allocated limits and your website becomes unavailable.


  • Options
    #17
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Talisman wrote: »
    Good luck with that - you do realise that the free tier is for testing purposes only? There's no uptime guarantee and it's a low priority service, CPU time is limited (60 minutes per day), bandwidth is limited (165MB per day), the database is limited to 20MB (free for 12 months only). Exceed the allocated limits and your website becomes unavailable.

    Yeah obviously there are limitations. It is free afterall.


  • Options
    #18
    stevenmu
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭stevenmu


    ChRoMe wrote: »
    Then why does everyone have to buy Resharper from JetBrains to make it usable?

    I'm not a .NET dev but everyone single .NET dev I know worth their salt insists on buying that plugin.
    They don't use Resharper to make VS usable, they use it to make VS better. It's a productivity enhancer. I regularly use VS without Resharper, and while it would be nice to always have, I manage just fine without it.

    Having plugins available to enhance your environment is a good thing. I don't think I've ever seen Eclipse mentioned without plugins being mentioned in the same breath, even the almighty Vim has plugins that people call "essential".


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    #19
    counterpointaud
    Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭counterpointaud


    Talisman wrote: »
    Good luck with that - you do realise that the free tier is for testing purposes only? There's no uptime guarantee and it's a low priority service, CPU time is limited (60 minutes per day), bandwidth is limited (165MB per day), the database is limited to 20MB (free for 12 months only). Exceed the allocated limits and your website becomes unavailable.

    True, but you get a lot more with the free student account under the dreamspark program (40eur a month worth of compute time, and an MSDN account, assuming the program is still running). I have several websites, a couple of web services and a few databases (1gb limit each) running for a couple of years now. I have never paid anything, or run into issues with constrained bandwidth. Granted they are mostly for college assignments, but it would be easy to scale up if traffic increased.


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    #20
    croo
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 1,333 Mod ✭✭✭✭croo


    John_Mc wrote: »
    Visual Studio is an excellent IDE
    I never said it wasn’t.
    I was saying there are no absolutes and therefore ”THE best” is not applicable to any IDE or anything full-stop.
    John_Mc wrote: »
    Sorry, what 3 are you talking about here?
    Well I don’t think it’s all that relevant but netbeans, eclipse & of late IntelliJ (purely because there were so many passionate supporters here I decide to have a try). I haven’t tried VS since the 90s with C++ because I work mostly in java now and I don’t believe the java stack is well supported by VS.
    John_Mc wrote: »
    I've used Mercurial and it was ok, very good for freeware but a bit cumbersome to use.
    Well it’s not freeware.
    I do have some other criticisms but I wouldn’t say cumbersome myself.
    I would have said it was very simple and straightforward, but then I like to work at the command line. It is very similar to GIT – why do you think GIT + TFS works and Mercurial not? Is it simply that there is no GUI TFS wrapper with mercurial?
    John_Mc wrote: »
    As for choosing different source control systems for different scenarios - that just sounds stupid to me. They all do more or less the same thing but some are easier to use than others
    I can think of many possible reasons but off the top of my head; suppose, for example, it was not a new project that I wanted to extend. I could import it to my current VCS of choice but then I would lose all the existing history… to keep it I might just use the existing VCS and so I’d like my IDE to be able to interface with it… whatever that is.
    John_Mc wrote: »
    Give yourself a good pat on the back there, aren't you just great.
    Thanks.


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    #21
    neil_hosey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭neil_hosey


    Ive worked with both Java and .NET environments over the years.

    I prefer .NET much more, it makes development alot easier. VS is superior to eclipse and intellij in my opinion.

    Each plugin/library/IDE integrate perfectly..

    Its bull**** you cant use open source software with .NET, we are currently using MySQL db with entity framework in our DAO layer and it works great.

    Regarding Spring MVC vs .NET ASP.NET MVC, I also prefer ASP.net MVC, I just think its easier to work with, although both of them are very similar with regard to you still having a Model, a View, and a controller.. its the ease of development that I like with VS for this..

    Also, I wouldn't worry about focusing on a particular one for a career. OOP principles, design patterns, SOLID principles are way more important, and allow you to work with any language.. aim to use both .NET and Java !


    If I was you though, I'd be looking at using a client side MVC framework such as Angular, Ember, Knockout etc... they are the way forward ...probably.


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