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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    What should the Israeli's do? How do they defend their country? What's objective defense and what is war?

    Why are the Israeli's doing this? If they wanted to wipe Gaza out they could have carried it out in a couple of days.

    They're doing what any colonial power in the 19th/20th century would do except they aren't using rifles, maxims and a field gun. The natives have been uppity, and they need to be shown who is boss. The village will be largely destroyed, leaders and men of arms bearing age targeted and killed. Anyone who happens to be in the way at the time gets much the same. Once they've decided the fear of jesus has been sufficiently instilled, its back to the officers club for G&T.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    With regards to bombing of the power station -

    Will this affect the information we have been receiving out of Gaza? Will people lose ability to charge their laptops, phones, etc?

    Even more important, will the hospitals run out of generator electricity?

    Sorry if these seem like dumb questions but i'm concerned that the civilians are facing isolation and that we may soon hear less of their suffering.

    I'd presume that the media present would have generators as part of their set up and hopefully the hospitals have their own generators too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭h2005


    brimal wrote: »
    What treatment? I've seen loads of anti-war protests in Tel Aviv with no problems.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/.premium-1.607888
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QiV9xn0RbI


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Nodin wrote: »
    They're doing what any colonial power in the 19th/20th century would do except they aren't using rifles, maxims and a field gun. The natives have been uppity, and they need to be shown who is boss. The village will be largely destroyed, leaders and men of arms bearing age targeted and killed. Anyone who happens to be in the way at the time gets much the same. Once they've decided the fear of jesus has been sufficiently instilled, its back to the officers club for G&T.

    It reads like the worst of a Flashman novel. Colonialism for the sake of it. But what is the end objective of it all? It it Israel ruling Gaza?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    P_1 wrote: »
    I'd presume that the media present would have generators as part of their set up and hopefully the hospitals have their own generators too.

    Lets hope they miss the generators when shelling the hospitals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Israel claim that they give 3-5 minutes 'warning' (knock-on-the-roof) for people to vacate their homes before shelling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5jNoCeOBA

    3-5 minutes? :rolleyes:

    Murderous scumbags

    You'd have to question the military logic of that tactic. Surely the 'knock on the roof' bombs would be more than enough to stop the rocket threat from that site without acting as a recruiter for Hamas.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    It reads like the worst of a Flashman novel. Colonialism for the sake of it. But what is the end objective of it all? It it Israel ruling Gaza?


    It's actually more to strain the relationship between Fatah and Hamas who've managed to agree a unity government, intimidate the general population and take out elements of the Hamas leadership.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    Israel claim that they give 3-5 minutes 'warning' (knock-on-the-roof) for people to vacate their homes before shelling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5jNoCeOBA

    3-5 minutes? :rolleyes:

    Murderous scumbags

    That's one of the videos I've seen with the tap on the roof. Can't remember where I seen the other one.

    Disgusting too think that is your warning and knowing you've 30-60 seconds to "live" then you are in a concrete coffin. Would rather just the boom then to live through the fear of knowing what was coming.


    Edit: Video editing at play pointed out later in thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Apart from the obvious - the horror of all the innocent civilians being killed - the worst aspect of this whole thing is the unending, futile nature of it. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict has been a running backdrop to my entire life in much the same way as the Cold War; it should have been sorted out by the useless, toothless UN/EEC and the USA decades ago. However, our EU overlords and their American friends have been too busy trying to take advantage of the collapse of the former Soviet Union to sort out the problem once and for all.

    I am pro-Israel and their right to exist but their current OTT response to Hamas is nothing short of a war crime. As a PR job it's a disaster, and as the greatest source of recruitment for the next wave of Islamic extremists it's going to be an overwhelming success. What's needed is some real leadership like that shown by Menachem Begin of Israel and President Sadat of Egypt in 1979 - unlikely I'm afraid.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭35cent


    Nodin wrote: »
    They're doing what any colonial power in the 19th/20th century would do except they aren't using rifles, maxims and a field gun. The natives have been uppity, and they need to be shown who is boss. The village will be largely destroyed, leaders and men of arms bearing age targeted and killed. Anyone who happens to be in the way at the time gets much the same. Once they've decided the fear of jesus has been sufficiently instilled, its back to the officers club for G&T.

    If that was their policy then Gaza would have been a pile of rubble a long time ago.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    35cent wrote: »
    If that was their policy then Gaza would have been a pile of rubble a long time ago.

    I think you may have missed the point in the policy.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    35cent wrote: »
    If that was their policy then Gaza would have been a pile of rubble a long time ago.


    But gaza barely functions as is. Every few years theres some excuse and they go in and wreck the place - the zoos been taken out a few times, chicken hatcheries etc. It's to get the croppys to lie down.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Wild_Dogger


    You'd have to wonder..........

    Say Hamas dropped leaflets telling people to leave southern Israel , would they then have the right to demolish towns and villages ?

    Or is that right specific to Israel ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Nodin wrote: »
    It's actually more to strain the relationship between Fatah and Hamas who've managed to agree a unity government, intimidate the general population and take out elements of the Hamas leadership.

    Again, I'm pleading relative ignorance with all this stuff, despite having a 'back of the head' sympathy for the Israeli side. Why are Israel so against having Hamas talk and discuss things with the leadership in the West Bank? Is there oil in Gaza, or access to a deep water port? Why bomb the fúck out of Gaza while knowing world pr is against them? :confused::(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    You'd have to wonder..........

    Say Hamas dropped leaflets telling people to leave southern Israel , would they then have the right to demolish towns and villages ?

    Or is that right specific to Israel ?

    No, because they're terrorists.

    "and you dare to call me a terrorist,
    while you look down your gun.
    When I think of all the deeds that you have done"

    Those lyrics are about as easy a way for me to express how I feel about Israel and the West's defence of them now. Calling Hamas terrorists and not Israel the same is some mental logic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭35cent


    Nodin wrote: »
    But gaza barely functions as is. Every few years theres some excuse and they go in and wreck the place - the zoos been taken out a few times, chicken hatcheries etc. It's to get the croppys to lie down.

    Like I said in the other thread, I don't see the point of these offensives personally. I know they are responding to rocket attacks but they don't seem effective despite all the damage and death caused.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Again, I'm pleading relative ignorance with all this stuff, despite having a 'back of the head' sympathy for the Israeli side. Why are Israel so against having Hamas talk and discuss things with the leadership in the West Bank?

    A unified Palestinian leadership? That makes sidelining them and playing them off against each other difficult. Remember that Israel wants the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. The last thing it wants is a unified Palestinian front opposing them.

    Is there oil in Gaza, or access to a deep water port? Why bomb the fúck out of Gaza while knowing world pr is against them? :confused::(

    Because when your ally has a veto on the UNSC, you don't have to care.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭S.O


    Was doing a small bit of shopping in a local tesco store this past saturday when a crowd of protesters entered the store shouting at the staff regarding Israeli goods, having a peaceful protest march about an issue is one thing, but I dont agree with shouting at staff in work over something the staff have nothing to do with, at the end of the day the staff only stack the shelves and sell the products they don't decide where the the products are imported from, the protesters didn,t do themselves any favours whatsoever with the way they carried on, from talking to people in private conversations peoples opinions are down on them. if you want to try persuade people not to buy and boycott Israeli products or not handle Israeli goods in their place of work shouting and roaring at people in a supermarket store isn,t the way to persuade anyone.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    35cent wrote: »
    Like I said in the other thread, I don't see the point of these offensives personally. I know they are responding to rocket attacks but they don't seem effective despite all the damage and death caused.


    As I said, its about domination, oppression and trying to weaken Hamas and its links with Fatah.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    h2005 wrote: »

    I watched on, women beaten, girls beaten, old men beaten, kids shot, families terrorised. To argue on would be a waste of breath. Israel, the brother of apartheid era South Africa. I wonder will there be a Palestinian Nelson mandela? Or would he just be shot and silenced. South Africa drew the line a good way before artillery and missiles. Shameful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭Wild_Dogger


    True , True !

    But I'm sure the management heard about it and don't want a repeat of it.

    If enough of this happened then maybe the staff wouldn't have to stock their shelves with Israeli produce.

    Saying that, I would prefer to write to managment requesting a list of Israeli goods, noting that you wish to continue shopping with the firm but would not wish to buy Israeli produce.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,383 ✭✭✭h2005


    35cent wrote: »
    If that was their policy then Gaza would have been a pile of rubble a long time ago.

    There's only so many hours in the day.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCGOUEO-V6Y


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Davarus Walrus


    Nodin wrote: »
    A unified Palestinian leadership? That makes sidelining them and playing them off against each other difficult. Remember that Israel wants the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. The last thing it wants is a unified Palestinian front opposing them.




    Because when your ally has a veto on the UNSC, you don't have to care.

    Do the leadership in Gaza and the West Bank not communicate? Again, I'm fairly uneducated when it comes to all this stuff, but I'd presume they both developed a mutual disliked of the Israeli's?

    And again, I'm genuinely not trying to be antagonistic; but what 'win' do Israel get from attacking Gaza at the moment? It's not PR; sympathy for the Jewish cause, or a desire to invest in Israeli companies. Why do Israel send their young lads to fight?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,071 ✭✭✭user2011


    35cent wrote: »
    Like I said in the other thread, I don't see the point of these offensives personally. I know they are responding to rocket attacks but they don't seem effective despite all the damage and death caused.

    Look at it this way how long will it take the people of Gaza to begin to get back what they have lost in this offensive? By the time the next offensive starts they won't be anywhere near it and then Gaza will again be even more wrecked the next time.

    Israel has a strangle hold on what goes into Gaza what Gaza needs and what Israel thinks they need...

    No they weren't responding to rockets, firstly Israel got their backs up by a unity government between Hamas/Fatah and went into the West Bank raided homes/businesses, 8/9 people got killed, rearrested a lot of "Hamas" fighters without cause (nearly 2 years nothing happening) IDF even being happy with Hamas for doing so well reducing the amount of rockets being fired by other groups after Hamas set up a special police force to counter the problem.

    What we've been seeing these past three weeks is on Israel's hands.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭hju6


    Chile and Peru have now joined Brazil and Ecuador in recalling their envoys to Israel

    "Chile notes with great concern and dismay that such military operations, which at this stage of development are subject to a collective punishment against the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza do not respect fundamental rules of international humanitarian law."

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607915


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,205 ✭✭✭Gringo180


    hju6 wrote: »
    Chile and Peru have now joined Brazil and Ecuador in recalling their envoys to Israel

    "Chile notes with great concern and dismay that such military operations, which at this stage of development are subject to a collective punishment against the Palestinian civilian population in Gaza do not respect fundamental rules of international humanitarian law."

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.607915

    I was just about to post this. Whats sickening is that the EU and US have imposed many sanctions against Russia and havent done a tap to even condemn the Israeli terrorists. Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order, truely disgusting!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    True , True !

    But I'm sure the management heard about it and don't want a repeat of it.

    If enough of this happened then maybe the staff wouldn't have to stock their shelves with Israeli produce.

    You understand that that is just basically terrorism right? It's no way to move people to your side.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    But what is the end objective of it all? It it Israel ruling Gaza?

    Israel already rules Gaza. Gaza is an enormous internment camp - only for tunnels supplying it with its needs it would be immeasurably more impoverished.

    The endgame is uncontested control of 'greater Israel' i.e. the territory north of Egypt, west of the Jordan and south of Lebanon/Syria. It just so happens that there are a several million Palestinians within those borders that need to be 'managed'.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,954 ✭✭✭Tail Docker


    h2005 wrote: »
    There's only so many hours in the day.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCGOUEO-V6Y

    That ends the argument that "if they were truly ruthless they'd just flatten it, but they don't"...seems, pretty much, they do.


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