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Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    This is just scare mongering I think. It's not gonna be very easy to enforce. €50 fines hmmm. Will we have to carry ID to provide proof of our name and address when this comes in so they will not have John Frank or Mary giving micky mouse addresses to send fines to?

    What's the age restriction gonna be? Can they fine a 10 year old on the foot path on his BMX?

    No lights at night definitely should be an offence though. Breaking red lights I get that as well but since bikes are not mechanically propelled vehicles they will have to change the rule book to enforce those ones.

    I'm quite new to cycling so excuse my ignorance if any.
    They're already offences, but there's no fixed penalty. So it's a court summons, and a fine (if it goes to court).

    If someone is going to commit another offence (giving a false name) to avoid a €50 fine, they'd probably do it to avoid the much more punitive summons and court fine, so no difference and a bit of red herring imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    Breaking red lights I get that as well but since bikes are not mechanically propelled vehicles they will have to change the rule book to enforce those ones.

    I'm quite new to cycling so excuse my ignorance if any.

    Incorrect. Bikes are vehicles so breaking a red light is as illegal for a cyclist as it is for a car. The former is not the mechanically propelled - this is immaterial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 dante2015


    i agree with Cyclists being fined for things like running a red light, i am sick of crossing the street/road when the green man is showing only to be nearly run down by a cyclist who things the rules of the road dont apply to them, i wouldnt mind if it was once in a while i could deal with that, but it is every day now, or when i am driving i see a cyclist taking up half the road (they are not that big seriously),

    its about time they were fined as 80% of them are Dangerous


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 dante2015


    can we fine them for wearing lycra that shows everything

    that should be banned


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    It's always been the case that a Guard can seize your bike if he's not satisfied you've given the correct details.

    So if you are caught and you don't or can't produce id you could find your trusty steed disappearing down the road in the back of a Garda van to be lumped into a property store somewhere!


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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    dante2015 wrote: »

    its about time they were fined as 80% of them are Dangerous
    Source?
    Seriously - don't come on here quoting random numbers to try and make a point - it only make you look like a troll


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    dante2015 wrote: »
    ......

    its about time they were fined as 80% of them are Dangerous

    of-course-danger-is-my-middle-name.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    dante2015 wrote: »
    can we fine them for wearing lycra that shows everything

    that should be banned

    Agree White Lycra and worn shorts that show the crack of your ass! :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,258 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    This is just scare mongering I think. It's not gonna be very easy to enforce. €50 fines hmmm. Will we have to carry ID to provide proof of our name and address when this comes in so they will not have John Frank or Mary giving micky mouse addresses to send fines to?

    Your obliged to give your correct name and address to a Garda, if they suspect you're not telling the truth they can take your bike back to the station until you present proof of identity, and get your bike back then...


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    This is just scare mongering I think. It's not gonna be very easy to enforce. €50 fines hmmm. Will we have to carry ID to provide proof of our name and address when this comes in so they will not have John Frank or Mary giving micky mouse addresses to send fines to?

    Gardai have the right to seize your bicycle if they do not believe the identity you provide and can hold it until such time as someone with the identity you provided proves it. Hardly worth the effort for a 50euro fine, although hopefully it will make it not worth breaking the law that gets you the fine.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Gardai have the right to seize your bicycle if they do not believe the identity you provide and can hold it until such time as someone with the identity you provided proves it. Hardly worth the effort for a 50euro fine, although hopefully it will make it not worth breaking the law that gets you the fine.

    All they have to do is do what they do with cars.......offer the contract to store the bikes out, retain a contractor then when the delinquent cyclists have to trail out to the Naas Road or the back of the airport they pay the storage fees to get the bike back - which, I would suggest, would be considerably more than 50 notes if you leave it there for more than a single night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 47 dante2015


    Beasty wrote: »
    Source?
    Seriously - don't come on here quoting random numbers to try and make a point - it only make you look like a troll

    let me guess a cyclist that hates pedestrians and motorists

    ok maybe 80% was the wrong thing to say, but i am getting sick of being run down everytime i cross the road and if i do stop or deliberately walk slower then i am the idiot or the bad guy


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    dante2015 wrote: »
    can we fine them for wearing lycra that shows everything

    that should be banned

    I sense an over-sensitive fattie?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    dante2015 wrote: »
    let me guess a cyclist that hates pedestrians and motorists

    ok maybe 80% was the wrong thing to say, but i am getting sick of being run down everytime i cross the road and if i do stop or deliberately walk slower then i am the idiot or the bad guy

    you get run down *every* time you cross the road........?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,945 ✭✭✭Grandpa Hassan


    dante2015 wrote: »
    let me guess a cyclist that hates pedestrians and motorists

    ok maybe 80% was the wrong thing to say, but i am getting sick of being run down everytime i cross the road and if i do stop or deliberately walk slower then i am the idiot or the bad guy

    Every time?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,761 ✭✭✭Pinch Flat


    I dunno I think of myself as a bit of a rogue anyway - just a law abiding one. :)

    I quite like the idea of chipping cyclists anyway - would be dead handy if any one gets dropped or had a mechanical on a group spin - quick check of the GPS and hey presto. Woulld save a fortune on mobile phone calls - in addition to dispensing with the need for a broom wagon (do you have to pay "road tax" on them, btw)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    dante2015 wrote: »
    let me guess a cyclist that hates pedestrians and motorists

    ok maybe 80% was the wrong thing to say, but i am getting sick of being run down everytime i cross the road and if i do stop or deliberately walk slower then i am the idiot or the bad guy

    Do you look left, then right then left again? Or just step out munching a muffin while listening to music and playing with your phone?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭bazermc


    This thread is heading for locked status faster than I thought


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,920 ✭✭✭MayoAreMagic


    seamus wrote: »
    Intellectual honesty would dictate that if high-vis were to be required for cyclists, then only white, yellow, or gold cars should be legally allowed on the roads.

    If every cyclist had as many lights on them as a car does then I would have no problem with them wearing completely black attire. But, then intellectual honesty would dictate that they don't, and the fact that there is a requirement in the pipeline for them to wear high-visibility clothing, suggests that there is in fact an issue with visibility and cyclists that needs addressing.

    As for people upset with being told what to wear, do they take the same approach when told to wear a seatbelt? That is basically what they are doing here. I don't think the excuse of 'I like to wear suitable clothes for where I am going' would cut it as an excuse for not wearing a seatbelt, so it shouldn't here either.

    The real stat that jumps out at me is one that hasn't been broached - there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year. People need to drop this victim mentality and smarten up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,121 ✭✭✭daragh_


    The real stat that jumps out at me is one that hasn't been broached - there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year. People need to drop this victim mentality and smarten up.

    Maybe the sensible thing would be to look at the causes of those deaths? Cyclist behaviour? Driver Behaviour? Dodgy infrastructure?

    Have any info on how hi-viz (or lack of) was a significant factor in those fatalities?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    ted1 wrote: »
    The foot path is the cycle lane. Seriously where do cyclists cycle on the footpath on the N11. I use it twice s day and have never seen a cyclists on the path outside the cycle lane

    You have never seen anyone cycle on the footpath along the N11? I cycle it daily and I don't remember a time I didn't see it. The footpath near the traffic lights along Leeson street upper near Appian way on the way in every morning. Skipping the traffic lights and between there and donnybrook on the footpath every evening on the way home. Rampant with people breaking lights, dangerous cycling all the way in. God bless the bad weather days when they get the bus.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Cyclists, like cars, are required to have lights.

    High viz clothing is a poor alternative to adequate lights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    the fact that there is a requirement in the pipeline for them to wear high-visibility clothing
    There isn't.
    The real stat that jumps out at me is one that hasn't been broached - there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year. People need to drop this victim mentality and smarten up.
    Did rates of hiviz wearing drop on the previous year?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    If every cyclist had as many lights on them as a car does then I would have no problem with them wearing completely black attire. But, then intellectual honesty would dictate that they don't, and the fact that there is a requirement in the pipeline for them to wear high-visibility clothing, suggests that there is in fact an issue with visibility and cyclists that needs addressing.

    As for people upset with being told what to wear, do they take the same approach when told to wear a seatbelt? That is basically what they are doing here. I don't think the excuse of 'I like to wear suitable clothes for where I am going' would cut it as an excuse for not wearing a seatbelt, so it shouldn't here either.

    The real stat that jumps out at me is one that hasn't been broached - there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year. People need to drop this victim mentality and smarten up.

    I tried an experiment for a month. I rode with
    * Exposure max-daddy light (2000 lumen)
    * Exposure strada (1000 lumen)
    * Exposure joystick (250 lumen)
    * Exposure whitelight add on(250 lumen)
    * Three cateye flashing LEDS (normal commuter lights)
    * Hi viz jacket

    It had no impact on the frequency of incidents in darkness. Still the same number of apologies "didn't see you there". And the motorists weren't lying. They didn't see me. Because they didn't look.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,272 ✭✭✭Deedsie


    Every single thread on cyclists taking responsibility for themselves is just destroyed by constant deflection and whataboutery from overly defensive posters.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    If every cyclist had as many lights on them as a car does then I would have no problem with them wearing completely black attire. But, then intellectual honesty would dictate that they don't, and the fact that there is a requirement in the pipeline for them to wear high-visibility clothing, suggests that there is in fact an issue with visibility and cyclists that needs addressing.

    No it suggests there is an issue with perception of the problem. Trinity have done some research on this and it seems less experienced cyclists are more likely to put their faith in safety aids. Whereas, experience teaches you that your behaviour on the road is the biggest determinant of whether you are going to get squished - now we can accept the evidence from studies like the one done by Trinity or we can continue to base policy on subjective judgments framed by people with limited experience of cycling, but extensive experience of seeing cyclists.....
    As for people upset with being told what to wear, do they take the same approach when told to wear a seatbelt? That is basically what they are doing here. I don't think the excuse of 'I like to wear suitable clothes for where I am going' would cut it as an excuse for not wearing a seatbelt, so it shouldn't here either.

    There's no comparison between a safety belt, which is an engineering solution to a safety problem and hi-viz which is, at best, PPE - are you actually suggesting that hi-viz is as effective in preventing injuries as a properly worn seatbelt! It might prevent a bit of road rash, but that's about it!
    The real stat that jumps out at me is one that hasn't been broached - there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year. People need to drop this victim mentality and smarten up.

    Given the recent explosion in cycling, this just demonstrates that the media don't understand statistics, risk and probabilities.

    I don't believe people advocating the uselessness of hi-viz in the context of cyclist safety are engaging in a victim mentality - quite the opposite, actually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,457 ✭✭✭lennymc


    there was a big increase in road accidents and deaths in the last year.
    maybe the answer is to ban all road users EXCEPT for cyclists...


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    As for people upset with being told what to wear, do they take the same approach when told to wear a seatbelt? That is basically what they are doing here. I don't think the excuse of 'I like to wear suitable clothes for where I am going' would cut it as an excuse for not wearing a seatbelt, so it shouldn't here either.

    How would a seat belt hamper the wearing of any normal clothing, formal or otherwise?

    (What is New Latin for seat belt? I need a reductio ad Hitlerum coinage here.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,583 ✭✭✭✭tunney


    lennymc wrote: »
    maybe the answer is to ban all road users EXCEPT for cyclists...

    Thats what they have done in Amsterdam.

    Albeit on a separate, complete, comprehensive, usable road network.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    How would a seat belt hamper the wearing of any normal clothing, formal or otherwise?

    (What is New Latin for seat belt? I need a reductio ad Hitlerum coinage here.)

    I never wear a seatbelt because it scuffs my epaulettes.


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