Anomaly Scan Campaign

lazygal · 06-05-2014 11:01am #1

Not really sure how we'd go about this but I've noticed a few post on people having to fight to get an anomaly scan at 20 weeks or haven't gotten one at all for reasons like uncomplicated pregnancy or age.

I think it is appalling that politicians and others are constantly saying glib soundbites about the safety of our maternity services when a basic scan isn't standard practice in every maternity unit in the country. I am not pregnant myself but I have two children and found the anomaly scans enormously reassuring psychologically and others have found the same. I didn't really settle into feeling things were all okay until we had that scan. I can't imagine the stress of not getting that reassurance. I can't imagine not getting that scan and then having to deal with a complication during or after birth that you could have dealt with earlier or come to terms with during the pregnancy.

Would anyone be interested in getting the ball rolling on this? I haven't a clue how we'd go about it but maybe others would have some ideas. Pregnant women in Ireland deserve better than having to fight for a routine scan.

January · 06-05-2014 12:29pm

I'm in, like yourself I haven't got a clue of how to go about it but I'm definitely in.

I've stickied the thread so it gets a bit more notice too.

shortstuff! · 06-05-2014 1:04pm

I'm in aswell, I paid €150 for a private scan as Mullingar dont do them, I could afford it but Im sure others cant. Most of my friend dont even know about the scan let alone the importance as its never mentioned in the hospital. A friend also attended Mullingar with a high risk twin pregnancy and she was sent to Dublin to pay for one, disgrace.

Merkin · 06-05-2014 1:05pm

Perhaps Minister/Department for Health might be a good starting point?

cyning · 06-05-2014 1:16pm

Despit attending the high risk clinic on both pregnancies and having scans at every appointment I couldn't get one either. It's a disgrace and I'd definitely do something to help if I can.

I wonder would AIMS have any information? I guess basic stuff too: emailing/writing letters to all TDs, lobbying local TDs in person too at their clinics maybe? And if they're out canvassing with any local election candidates too it's a good time to grab them.

Jerrica · 06-05-2014 2:26pm

Absolutely wonderful idea, count me in too. AIMS is certainly the first port of call, (http://aimsireland.ie/), then possibly also Neighbourhood Midwives, Ciudiu and the Doula Association of Ireland (although the latter two would be from a support point of view.

Are there existing HSE guidelines on this? How does Irish practice compare with UK and other European models? Are there any studies to support the practice of commonplace anomaly scans? I'm just thinking off the top of my head, but starting with AIMS will probably be best, they'll also have access to hospital policy information which will be different depending on which hospital you're looking at.

lazygal · 07-05-2014 10:08am

When I've a bit more time I will get in touch with some of the organizations mentioned. I'm really glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks routine anomaly scans should be offered to all pregnant women in Ireland.

newtoboards · 07-05-2014 2:01pm

I'm in; had one during my pregnancy as part of package with private consultant and problems were found which resulted in my care being handed off from Mullingar to Holles street for a part of the pregnancy. Thankfully I was allowed to carry to term and handed back to Mullingar to give birth but my son has been under the care of pediatricians since he was born and is healthy as a result.

Cameoette · 08-05-2014 1:54pm

I'm 100% in too. Great idea.

Neyite · 08-05-2014 4:06pm

Count me in.

I'm very annoyed about the gradual removal of scans and suspect that its not primarily a money-saving endeavour but more about the fact the government dont want us to find out of there is something wrong with our pregnancies now. Because we might begin to demand services that we shouldnt have to get on a flight to the UK to recieve.

Its nigh on impossible to get an early pregnancy scan, or indeed a timely EPU appointment if you experience a bleed. I've had 3 miscarraiges and each time the appointment was for about 8 days or more after I rang them, they even admitted that it was a deliberate delay.

Cameoette · 08-05-2014 4:08pm

Neyite: I have the same suspicions too, I really don't think it's just about cutbacks.

lazygal · 08-05-2014 4:29pm

All the concern for the unborn, but you get sweet damn all help for miscarriage.

lazygal · 08-05-2014 7:02pm

I thought HS offered it to everyone too.

I've heard anecdotes about hospitals asking women why they want a scan when nothing can come of it except for continuing the pregnancy. Such attitudes need to be robustly challenged. Scans aren't just about the foetus; they can show up issues like placenta previa which can be serious for a woman.

Chattastrophe! · 08-05-2014 7:50pm

I'm really surprised at that happening in Holles St ... there was never any question about me getting one, and the leaflet I was given very clearly explained everything about it and said that every patient was offered it around the 20 week mark.

Also I was given several detailed scans prior to that due to bleeding, no delays etc. Actually I'd say Holles St are probably the standard that should be aspired to in terms of antenatal care ... that was my own experience on the public system, of course I'm sure it depends on your consultant.

newtoboards · 08-05-2014 7:53pm

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

I'm really surprised at that happening in Holles St ... there was never any question about me getting one, and the leaflet I was given very clearly explained everything about it and said that every patient was offered it around the 20 week mark.

Also I was given several detailed scans prior to that due to bleeding, no delays etc. Actually I'd say Holles St are probably the standard that should be aspired to in terms of antenatal care ... that was my own experience on the public system, of course I'm sure it depends on your consultant.

I'm surprised about Holles Street too as I was referred there from another hospital due to serious concerns raised during anomaly scan in Mullingar and it was within the window to have a medical termination abroad if I wanted/needed to based on the outcome of the scan.

Merkin · 08-05-2014 7:56pm

I must ask her about it, she told me about it a couple of months ago. Unless she was talking about her last pregnancy which would be nearly four years ago and I misunderstood (quite possible given my Baby Brain is at all time vague levels!) When did it become compulsory in HS?

lazygal · 08-05-2014 7:58pm

It's not compulsory, rather it's routinely offered. Anyone I know who's had a baby there in the past couple of years got one and a few other scans at appointments too. I was private but had to attend the public clinics once or twice and was scanned every time.

Moonbeam · 08-05-2014 7:59pm

Merkin wrote: »

I didn't know that, my friend definitely had to push for having it there and this would only have been a few months ago, I couldn't believe it.

Holles street offer anomaly scans and actively encourage them and to book them early .
I have had 4 there in the last 5 years both private and under midwife care .

Millem · 08-05-2014 8:37pm

Merkin wrote: »

I didn't know that, my friend definitely had to push for having it there and this would only have been a few months ago, I couldn't believe it.

Seriously I think there must of been a mix maybe? I only had my baby in January and was public, when I rang to book in at around 6 weeks they got me to book anomaly scan straight away. I was low risk too. I have to say they never scrimped on scans there.

Ms2011 · 09-05-2014 1:31pm

I found the Coombe v.good, they couldn't see the baby's face at the first anomaly scan as his hands were covering it so they brought me in a few weeks later to do a second one as a precaution.

How Strange · 09-05-2014 1:57pm

I think it's appalling that these aren't offered routinely. It alerts the medical staff to any potential problems and it's a huge reassurance for the parents when everything is ok. However, I always wanted to know either way so we could prepare ourselves if there was something wrong.

The coombe offer it as standard.

Despite what you hear about our maternity services, they aren't first world or fantastic. They're just about adequate.

Count me in for any petition

lazygal · 09-05-2014 2:11pm

I have been thinking about what strategy is best.

Would it be appropriate to email AIMS a link to the thread, and also email the other organizations mentioned?
Contacting the Minister for Health probably won't be effective. The Department receives thousands of contacts every day and it would likely be lost in the crowd. I think what might work is contacting individual politicians about this and pressing them to raise the matter in the Dail and Seanad (such as during Topical Issues debates). While nothing is likely to come of such debates directly, they can be a springboard for raising wider awareness of the campaign.

lazygal · 09-05-2014 2:14pm

How Strange wrote: »

Despite what you hear about our maternity services, they aren't first world or fantastic. They're just about adequate.

I challenge any politician or commentator who trots this line out to undergo a trial of pregnancy and labour in any maternity unit in the public system and still remain convinced of the wonderfulness of our maternity services. I was lucky enough to be able to afford to go private, which allowed me some extra bonuses in terms of privacy and comfort prenatally and postnatally. But the time I spend in public antenatal care for a couple of appointments and the night I spent on a public ward showed up huge gaps in maternity care. I never felt unsafe, just not really well taken care of.

Jerrica · 09-05-2014 2:14pm

I think contacting AIMS first to find out is this an issue they're aware of would be first, then try tobeatablish what national policy is as all hospitals will vary. That's a good start.

I'm out of the country at the moment but when I'm back I'll gladly help with any correspondence

Jerrica · 09-05-2014 2:16pm

lazygal wrote: »

I challenge any politician or commentator who trots this line out to undergo a trial of pregnancy and labour in any maternity unit in the public system and still remain convinced of the wonderfulness of our maternity services. I was lucky enough to be able to afford to go private, which allowed me some extra bonuses in terms of privacy and comfort prenatally and postnatally. But the time I spend in public antenatal care for a couple of appointments and the night I spent on a public ward showed up huge gaps in maternity care. I never felt unsafe, just not really well taken care of.

I think it's fair to say that Ireland is one of the safest places to have a baby, but at what cost to the Mothers well being? Lots of stuff on the AIMS fb page right now about the poor nursing and midwifery ratios in Irish hospitals.

lazygal · 09-05-2014 2:19pm

I found this: http://www.hse.ie/eng/health/az/P/Pregnancy-care/

which is copied from the NHS guidelines and adapted for the HSE. It refers to a dating scan but not to other scans. It also says you will be offered a dating scan. I know of a few women who's 20 week scan or even a 34 week growth scan was all they got during pregnancy.

detoxkid · 09-05-2014 2:20pm

You get one as standard as a public patient in galway around 20 weeks. But you get no scans before or after that unless they are worried about you. I think the inconsistency around the country is shocking.

lazygal · 09-05-2014 2:21pm

Jerrica wrote: »

I think it's fair to say that Ireland is one of the safest places to have a baby, but at what cost to the Mothers well being? Lots of stuff on the AIMS fb page right now about the poor nursing and midwifery ratios in Irish hospitals.

Women not dying in childbirth is a very dismal way to asses the relative 'safety' of maternity services. And I understand Ireland had its own way of recording maternal mortality which has been changed and will leave us middling in terms of comparison with other countries.
I had a very mixed experience with nursing and medical staff in Holles Street. I didn't find all of them fantastic, in fact there's one consultant I will request not to be treated by should I have any more children there.

Neyite · 09-05-2014 2:33pm

detoxkid wrote: »

You get one as standard as a public patient in galway around 20 weeks. But you get no scans before or after that unless they are worried about you. I think the inconsistency around the country is shocking.

Heh. And even then you dont necessarily get a scan earlier. I was classified as high risk considering I had a missed miscarriage on a twin, and was referred by my gynaecologist GP on the recommendation of the fertility clinic we attended, due to an exisiting endocrine issue that can have an impact on a pregnancy. And I was still treated as if I'd an awful cheek to try and skip the queue when I rang to try for an earlier appointment. I was told by the charmer on the phone that I would be scheduled in for a scan+checkup at 21 weeks, and that in her opinion I was luckier than other women as the average wait time for first appointment was 23 weeks or so.

She was right though. I was bloody lucky to be offered a scan at all it seems. When I attended the EPU in Jan 2013 for miscarriage, they scheduled me 8 days after they got the letter from the GP, got me to pee on a stick, told me I wasnt pregnant anymore and patted my hand. Said that the policy was no scan if test is negative. That there was unlikely to be any tissue left but to keep an eye on it.

My next miscarriage (sept 13) I didnt bother to go to the EPU, my GP agreed it was likely a waste of time for the little they do.

I'm due to go back to the same dept of the hospital to check out why I miscarried at the end of this month. It will be interesting to see if the care differs from a gynae as opposed to an ante-natal perspective. I'll keep you posted.

Neyite · 09-05-2014 2:35pm

lazygal wrote: »

Women not dying in childbirth is a very dismal way to asses the relative 'safety' of maternity services.

Some first-class yardstick eh?

diveout · 09-05-2014 3:56pm

Neyite wrote: »

Count me in.

I'm very annoyed about the gradual removal of scans and suspect that its not primarily a money-saving endeavour but more about the fact the government dont want us to find out of there is something wrong with our pregnancies now. Because we might begin to demand services that we shouldnt have to get on a flight to the UK to recieve.

Its nigh on impossible to get an early pregnancy scan, or indeed a timely EPU appointment if you experience a bleed. I've had 3 miscarraiges and each time the appointment was for about 8 days or more after I rang them, they even admitted that it was a deliberate delay.

I could see how it could look that way.

However, when I was pregnant I couldnt and didn't get the 12 week dating scan in Ireland, which at the time and still is, in my own country considered to be part of a regular pregnancy monitoring and is considered crucial. And this was because the maternity hospital was backed up and overloaded.

Now my child is in a class of 35 kids due to the babyboom at the time, and there have been babybooms since, which neither maternity hospitals nor schools have caught with to accommodate.

Anomaly Scan Campaign

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