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Green Diesel Fine?

  • 17-03-2010 5:43pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 9


    Whats the penalty for a first time a offence of running a CAR(not truck or van) on green diesel?
    And is this true?iv heard that at some checkpoints only vans and lorrys are dipped and not cars


«13

Comments

  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Cars are sometimes dipped. The fine for personal or light commercial vehicles is up to €5k.

    Also the fuel markers can stay in the tank for a number of fills of "clean" diesel after any use of marked gas oil.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭rebel.ranter


    They will dip cars too, it is not just commercial vehicles.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ive seen them dipping cars in the queue for the ferry!


  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭The Nutty M


    I've never seen them dipping a car at any checkpoint on the main roads I've been dipped at which is quite a few.The only place I've ever seen a car dipped was outside cattle marts where they were dipping everything.It's a case of luck though,get away with it for a while and you'll think it's great all the money you are saving,you could just be unlucky enough to be dipped some day where you least expect it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    if you can get away with it for long enough to save more than 5 grand then you might be ok, if your driving round dublin id imagine you could do it, ive only ever been dipped once , in galway


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 566 ✭✭✭AARRRRGH


    Ive never been dipped. Ive only ever seen them dip vans and trucks.
    I thought they could take your car though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,027 ✭✭✭Row


    With the government pushing green cars...What about Green diesel...:D

    afaik there are monitors which can tell if your using green diesel from the
    exhaust gases....:eek:
    I've driven around a half a million miles in diesels and have never been dipped...:(...I wonder what i would have saved in the difference....:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,830 ✭✭✭shawnee


    No , monitors don't exist just plain take a sample and yeah the customs are checking quite a bit at the moment. They do not take it quite as serious if it is a car much more serious if it is a commercial.;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭dirtydiesel


    You might get away with using green diesel on paddys day!!!!!! everything is green today


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭pred racer


    Row wrote: »
    I've driven around a half a million miles in diesels and have never been dipped...:(...I wonder what i would have saved in the difference....:confused:

    +1

    the normal fine is 1270 euro (or whatever 1000 pounds is in euro)


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Remember on Customs (The TV show) they just gave some fellow an on the spot fine and basically emptied his wallet of around €300 or €400, From my understanding is they don't really get tough unless it is your second or subsequent offence.

    From what I know the dye is only an indicator and they then siphon out a sample and mix in another chemical which turns the diesel pinky red (or thats what they did on the TV show anyways!)

    I can imagine alot of truckers probably have split tanks and get dipped white but are running on Green via a hidden tank or split tank which is filled some other way. I know a guy who'm they went and opened the injectors in his jeep (old banger) to see what he was really running on, but knowing the same fella it could be an elaborate wind up!


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Ryan T


    Remember on Customs (The TV show) they just gave some fellow an on the spot fine and basically emptied his wallet of around €300 or €400, From my understanding is they don't really get tough unless it is your second or subsequent offence.
    That driver was a traveller of no fixed abode so they took what they could get as it would not be possible to track him later


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    It is standard practice to levy a penalty of circa €500 if the offender has no previous convictions. If caught a second time it will mean court and the prospect of a €5000 fine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Ryan T


    It is standard practice to levy a penalty of circa €500 if the offender has no previous convictions. If caught a second time it will mean court and the prospect of a €5000 fine.

    Its a mandatory fine of €3k irrespective of first offence


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Ryan T wrote: »
    That driver was a traveller of no fixed abode so they took what they could get as it would not be possible to track him later

    I suppose any person could claim that. Surely they could run the licence plate or tax disc for to get an address, or can you register and tax a car as "No fixed abode".
    Bond-007 wrote: »
    It is standard practice to levy a penalty of circa €500 if the offender has no previous convictions. If caught a second time it will mean court and the prospect of a €5000 fine.

    Is it a criminal offence or classified as something minor like motor tax evasion? this country has a fairly stupid legal system and we should have misdemeanour's and felony's etc. to categorise each offence in terms of seriousness.


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭Ryan T


    I can only tell you what the revenue officer in charge said on the programme an that was that they would have no chance of tracing him


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭746watts


    Not worth doing, it's bad for your injectors anyway and you are likely to get an audit from the revenue boys (if you have a business linked to the car) on top of the fine etc.

    I was dipped about every 6 weeks near Loughrea over a period of 8 months or so a few years ago (private car Passat I had). Pain in the arse but I had proper diesel in at all times.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    746watts wrote: »
    Not worth doing, it's bad for your injectors anyway and you are likely to get an audit from the revenue boys (if you have a business linked to the car) on top of the fine etc.

    I was dipped about every 6 weeks near Loughrea over a period of 8 months or so a few years ago (private car Passat I had). Pain in the arse but I had proper diesel in at all times.

    Surely the dye itself could have no physical effect on the injectors, now if you were burning Kerosene (Paraffin) that would burn out the injectors in no time due to its less lubricating properties. I have heard stories of fellows with trucks and cars up around the border who prefer to just burn the green as that way they know it is not contaminated with all the dye removal schemes and cutting of Diesel with various chemicals.

    My understanding is/was that burning Green Diesel in a car made no difference apart from the obvious legal and tax related issues.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 193 ✭✭746watts


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Surely the dye itself could have no physical effect on the injectors, now if you were burning Kerosene (Paraffin) that would burn out the injectors in no time due to its less lubricating properties. I have heard stories of fellows with trucks and cars up around the border who prefer to just burn the green as that way they know it is not contaminated with all the dye removal schemes and cutting of Diesel with various chemicals.

    My understanding is/was that burning Green Diesel in a car made no difference apart from the obvious legal and tax related issues.

    Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    Stinicker wrote: »
    Is it a criminal offence or classified as something minor like motor tax evasion? this country has a fairly stupid legal system and we should have misdemeanour's and felony's etc. to categorise each offence in terms of seriousness.
    It is a serious criminal offence as far as the law is concerned.

    The revenue are catching so many these days that by levying cash penalties they can keep the courts from getting clogged up. Court is typically reserved for serial offenders and those that refuse to pay the cash penalty.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    746watts wrote: »
    Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.

    Which with todays Modern Engines will quickly throw the toys out of the pram! Never knew that cool! I guess Tractors are exempt from the Emissions regulations, and with most Farmers driving older type Corollas and Jeeps I guess it is only on the rare occasion that Green Diesel gets the opportunity to screw with a Modern TDIi!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭Fishtits


    746watts wrote: »
    Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.

    Utter rubbish.

    The dye (marker) is added post uplift, ie in Ireland. The base fuel is unmarked diesel.

    Tractors are subject to EU emissions regs, their engines must comply with whatever reg is in place when they are manufactured.

    It applies to all engines, including stationary engines such a gen sets, water pumps etc.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    746watts wrote: »
    Green diesel has a much higher sulphur content, the dye itself has no impact.

    Not for a very long time it hasn't. Its road diesel + dye + a chemical marker thats much harder to scrub than the dye, that is all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    Ryan T wrote: »
    Its a mandatory fine of €3k irrespective of first offence

    No it's not.
    I've known several people who've been caught and they've paid fines ranging from €300 - €1200.
    If the car's an old banger customs are likely to accept a lower amount as if the fine's too high the owner will most likely just let them impound it.

    Customs have also been known to negotiate.
    They'll ask for say €1000 but will end up agreeing to take €600 if that's the most the culprit can come up with on the spot.

    They're forever dipping around border towns but I've only encountered them dipping once down the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭mossfort


    the green diesel has a lot more dirt in it than white , im forever changing filters in tractors and the diesel tank because of the amount of dirt in it.
    the customs can test your exhaust gases to see what type of diesel your burning if they are in any doubt after dipping . and as was said the traveller got away with a 300 euro fine because he claimed no fixed abode .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I have seen them dipping down around Kilkenny and Thurles. Both those are C&E bases.

    Their prosecutions unit based in Bridge End in Donegal can and do send out penalty notices instead of prosecuting offenders. I have heard of people being offered penalties of €600-€1000 before going to court. Again this is a time saving measure as the C&E officers would have to attend court otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,969 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    The only place I've ever seen a car dipped was outside cattle marts.....
    Yeah, they used to just look for the big streak of diesel down the side of the car....

    Not your ornery onager



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,756 ✭✭✭ianobrien


    MYOB wrote: »
    Not for a very long time it hasn't. Its road diesel + dye + a chemical marker thats much harder to scrub than the dye, that is all.

    No it isn't

    All "road" diesel sold here is Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and has a Sulphur content of 50ppm max. The fuel is passed through a scrubber to remove excess sulphur, as the typical sulphur content of unscrubbed fuel is 500ppm (depending on source of crude oil used)

    The "green diesel" doesn't pass through the scrubber, as it's not for road use (operating the scrubber's expensive). The dye (Solvent Blue 79) is added as it's just a visual marker.

    The difference between the fuels is the Sulphur content and the colour. They are the same other than that. I spent some time working in a lab in an oil refinary, and the only way to be sure of which fuel you had was by measuring the Sulphur content via X-Ray Fluorescence.

    The damage to engines happens when laundered fuel is burned. The usual method of removing the dye is an acid wash. The problem is that they never neutalise the acid totally (or even remove it totally) and this causes havoc to modern high pressure pumps etc. Also, the byproduct from the acid wash is harmful to the environment and gets dumped at random. The sulphur content isn't reduced by the acid wash so you'll get caught anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭Armin_Tamzarian


    mossfort wrote: »
    and as was said the traveller got away with a 300 euro fine because he claimed no fixed abode .

    You see, the 'traveller defence' can also be used by all the Northern drivers who get caught by customs with red/green diesel.
    Much like speeding fines etc, if customs don't get money off them on the spot then they don't have much chance of recovering a fine unless they impound the vehicle, which is unwanted hassle for them.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Bearcat


    prob getting caught with the ag diesel is your now red flagged with the revenue who more often than not if you own a business will slap what they call a desk top audit on you.....if they find a hint of malparactice they'll do a full audit...audit in accountancy fees cost over 10k. Not worth it folks re the hassle factor....revenue can make your life a misery


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